Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Desiderius]

Dispelling should be possible with an Aeon.
Magus has Dimension Strike, at least.

Sanctified Slayer gets Studied Target, which should partially compensate for lost BAB. And when Charging its +4 AB with Cavalier's Charge (plus Flanking+Outflank and hopefully Freebooter's Bond for another +6). Also Half of the Pair is another +2 AB.
Robe of Order is +2 AB vs Chaotic if I want to use it. I guess the relic polymorph armor maybe still provides +4 AB/damage with Animal Aspect - I guess it must be a bug, though.

Hmm... Frost Spirit has Icy Prison and Mass on its list? That's interesting.
Too bad you can normally only use 1 of those Spirit spells slot per spell level per day...

That’s what Metamagic is for.

 

[Desiderius]

But I was archering pretty well as a Drovier so you can go that way too if you want with Shaman, and beat a save here and there (mostly with AoE Nukes) since he starts with 17 WIS. Mallender's belt is a no save -2 AC if you want a Hex for any class.

In Wrath I grew disappointed with fiddly medium BAB physical damagers (Magus, Inquisitor). All of them need extremely heavy support like Skald's Reckless Stance, Paladins Mark of Justice, Hex or Domain spam to adequately perform on endgame bosses, who come pre-buffed with Greater Heroism - that you need to dispel to bring Shatter online.

And archers need it even more since they can't profit from Outflank.

Studied/Judgements make up for the BAB shortfall then Divine Power blows it away. I was doing that on ranged Jae in P:K. Game has enough sources of AB to get there on whatever.

 

[Desiderius]

Just remembered the class I was wanting to do on Lann when it got fixed: Forester. Turns Favored Terrain into Favored Enemy on *everything* in that Terrain. Any idea if they’ve fixed it yet?

Ton of Bonus Feats and a free Rez too.

 

[Desiderius]

BTW, Shaman Spellbook doesn’t get Divine Favor, but it does get Divine Power.

 

[Haplo]

BTW, Shaman Spellbook doesn’t get Divine Favor, but it does get Divine Power.

Less use and worse earlier levels, but eventually still good, then!

 

[Daidre]

Studied/Judgements make up for the BAB shortfall then Divine Power blows it away. I was doing that on ranged Jae in P:K. Game has enough sources of AB to get there on whatever.

That's why I call those medium BAB classes fiddly. The could catch up or even outpace full BAB martials with ton of micro in TB, but will always underperform in comparison when properly built and buffed party tears through the dungeons in RTwP. And they will often underperform on bosses too, because their output is more harmed by suboptimal starting conditions, like ambushes in Alushinirra or party-wide full dispel from one particular goat-headed asshole.

 

[ArchAngel]

I my 3rd run I am back in demon city and I stopped here 1 month ago because I hate it how low FPS this whole chapter is..

Well, my new 3080 got whole 40-50 FPS at 1.2 in the city and stutters are almost tolerable. Previously, on 1.17 and 1080 it was 25 FPS and awful stutters.
No idea how it would be at 1.3.

Or, you know, Hunter lol. It works. I used the Trip on Urban Hunter to get him to close to melee before I figured out how mounts worked.

Lann makes absolutely wonderful Deliverer Slayer thanks to his lawful alignment. It sends his range damage up to the skies. No pet though.

Well this sounds more like your card upgrade did its job than anything with the patch :D
Also it is terrible that even with 3080 you are still getting such low FPS...

 

[Daidre]

Well this sounds more like your card upgrade did its job than anything with the patch :D
Also it is terrible that even with 3080 you are still getting such low FPS...

Yeah, I think it was mostly my upgrade.

Owlcat programmers are really something - it takes some special kind of talent to make locations that run like shit on literally anything. And at my current config, game went immune to graphic settings change - it runs at fluid 60 fps in QHD when stars aligns, but in some locations, FPS just plummets and stays the same no matter how hard I try to gimp Shadows/Lightning/Anisotropic Filtering. There were some improvement in 1.2 (pre- my upgrade) but it looks like each location has it own set of issues and they slowly go through them one-by-one( For example, DLC 1 locations were very effect heavy and complicated, but run very smooth. At the same time, urban parts of DLC 2 not only run like shit, but also got so many performance-degrading leaks (and I suspect some broken scripts) that I was restarting the game each hour.

 

[Desiderius]

BTW, Shaman Spellbook doesn’t get Divine Favor, but it does get Divine Power.

Less use and worse earlier levels, but eventually still good, then!

Eventually alot better. It scales to +6/+6 and adds an attack.

 

[Desiderius]

Studied/Judgements make up for the BAB shortfall then Divine Power blows it away. I was doing that on ranged Jae in P:K. Game has enough sources of AB to get there on whatever.

That's why I call those medium BAB classes fiddly. The could catch up or even outpace full BAB martials with ton of micro in TB, but will always underperform in comparison when properly built and buffed party tears through the dungeons in RTwP. And they will often underperform on bosses too, because their output is more harmed by suboptimal starting conditions, like ambushes in Alushinirra or party-wide full dispel from one particular goat-headed asshole.

I play RTwP. Ten rounds is more than enough. But I do like keeping them at range to avoid most such nastiness.

Was very happy to have Aldori Swordlord MC for the goat tho.

 

[Haplo]

BTW, Shaman Spellbook doesn’t get Divine Favor, but it does get Divine Power.

Less use and worse earlier levels, but eventually still good, then!

Eventually alot better. It scales to +6/+6 and adds an attack.

Post level 11 it outpaces Favor, yeah. And the attack doesn't stack with Haste. But still good.

 

[ArchAngel]

I tried it a bit yesterday, level of the demon city with the Arena does seem to work better than before. The real test will be upper two levels with floting island shit.

 

[ga♥]

Did anyone else notice loading times are much worse... or it is just my impression? Loading time in market square in chapter 1 is so slow :\

 

[Cryomancer]

Now Azata Cryomancer is even better. Not only they fixed ice prison DC but they also made Focused element able to transform the damage of persistent damaging spells like Sirroco.

Elemental specialist - cold + azata is amazing.

Sadly they also nerfed Aivu really hard but is not a big deal since her progression is more akin to a normal havoc dragon.

 

[Fatberg Slim]

Does anyone know whether it's worthwhile to run a single-class Metamorph build? It doesn't have to be OP, just viable and fun with the various forms offering somewhat different playstyles without gimping your character and aren't just used to buff your main combat stats ahead of difficult fights. While this is probably too much to expect, I'd really like to see an RPG that supports shapechanging as a primary gameplay mechanic. Other than some roguelikes, the Shifter class in NWN1+HotU was probably the best I've seen for this kind of build, but that isn't saying a whole lot given the many other flaws with that game.

 

[Desiderius]

Does anyone know whether it's worthwhile to run a single-class Metamorph build? It doesn't have to be OP, just viable and fun with the various forms offering somewhat different playstyles without gimping your character and aren't just used to buff your main combat stats ahead of difficult fights. While this is probably too much to expect, I'd really like to see an RPG that supports shapechanging as a primary gameplay mechanic. Other than some roguelikes, the Shifter class in NWN1+HotU was probably the best I've seen for this kind of build, but that isn't saying a whole lot given the many other flaws with that game.

You can use the Bubble Buff mod to make buffing painless, but a lot of the good stuff like Barkskin, Heroism, and Magic Weapon, Greater is already long-lasting.

The ruleset is designed around single-classing with the things you usually get from multi-classing already built into the various archetypes. Shifting can be a little tricky to get there with so let me know if you need some help but yeah it's absolutely viable, especially on Core and below.

Alchemist is a strong class in general that is much harder to get in Wrath so makes a good MC and Mutagens work really well to help make shapechanging a more competitive option.

The strengths of Metamorph specifically are the Stealth class skill (letting you scout effectively and open combat with a Tripping Charge in Wolf/Leopard Form), the immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks, and the early access to the Dragonforms, so you'll want to design around that. Make sure to maintain a healthy supply of Mage Armor potions. If you do that and keep Shield and Barkskin up you'll make a good tank. And uniquely you can also keep Shield up on other team members.

Just keep in mind that unless you pick up Natural Spell you'll need to do your buffing before Changing and you won't be healing much, which is not big loss.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Does anyone know whether it's worthwhile to run a single-class Metamorph build? It doesn't have to be OP, just viable and fun with the various forms offering somewhat different playstyles without gimping your character and aren't just used to buff your main combat stats ahead of difficult fights. While this is probably too much to expect, I'd really like to see an RPG that supports shapechanging as a primary gameplay mechanic. Other than some roguelikes, the Shifter class in NWN1+HotU was probably the best I've seen for this kind of build, but that isn't saying a whole lot given the many other flaws with that game.

There is Barbarian archtype that can Shapechange during Rage. It's full BAB class so I guess the primary job will be attacking enemies. There are some Mythic Abilities (generic and specific to some Mythic path, notably Demon) that gives additional secondary natural attacks and also increase your stats while shapechanged.

 

[Desiderius]

Elemental Rampager is also a lot of fun but Metamorph is a strong choice as well that hasn't been explored much yet.

 

[Fatberg Slim]

You can use the Bubble Buff mod to make buffing painless, but a lot of the good stuff like Barkskin, Heroism, and Magic Weapon, Greater is already long-lasting.

The ruleset is designed around single-classing with the things you usually get from multi-classing already built into the various archetypes. Shifting can be a little tricky to get there with so let me know if you need some help but yeah it's absolutely viable, especially on Core and below.

Alchemist is a strong class in general that is much harder to get in Wrath so makes a good MC and Mutagens work really well to help make shapechanging a more competitive option.

The strengths of Metamorph specifically are the Stealth class skill (letting you scout effectively and open combat with a Tripping Charge in Wolf/Leopard Form), the immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks, and the early access to the Dragonforms, so you'll want to design around that. Make sure to maintain a healthy supply of Mage Armor potions. If you do that and keep Shield and Barkskin up you'll make a good tank. And uniquely you can also keep Shield up on other team members.

Just keep in mind that unless you pick up Natural Spell you'll need to do your buffing before Changing and you won't be healing much, which is not big loss.

There is Barbarian archtype that can Shapechange during Rage. It's full BAB class so I guess the primary job will be attacking enemies. There are some Mythic Abilities (generic and specific to some Mythic path, notably Demon) that gives additional secondary natural attacks and also increase your stats while shapechanged.

Great, thanks for the advice! I haven't played either Pathfinder game yet due to the lingering effects of RTwP overexposure (thanks PoE), but I'm hopeful that playing a build like this can shake me out of it.

 

[Desiderius]

You can use the Bubble Buff mod to make buffing painless, but a lot of the good stuff like Barkskin, Heroism, and Magic Weapon, Greater is already long-lasting.

The ruleset is designed around single-classing with the things you usually get from multi-classing already built into the various archetypes. Shifting can be a little tricky to get there with so let me know if you need some help but yeah it's absolutely viable, especially on Core and below.

Alchemist is a strong class in general that is much harder to get in Wrath so makes a good MC and Mutagens work really well to help make shapechanging a more competitive option.

The strengths of Metamorph specifically are the Stealth class skill (letting you scout effectively and open combat with a Tripping Charge in Wolf/Leopard Form), the immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks, and the early access to the Dragonforms, so you'll want to design around that. Make sure to maintain a healthy supply of Mage Armor potions. If you do that and keep Shield and Barkskin up you'll make a good tank. And uniquely you can also keep Shield up on other team members.

Just keep in mind that unless you pick up Natural Spell you'll need to do your buffing before Changing and you won't be healing much, which is not big loss.

There is Barbarian archtype that can Shapechange during Rage. It's full BAB class so I guess the primary job will be attacking enemies. There are some Mythic Abilities (generic and specific to some Mythic path, notably Demon) that gives additional secondary natural attacks and also increase your stats while shapechanged.

Great, thanks for the advice! I haven't played either Pathfinder game yet due to the lingering effects of RTwP overexposure (thanks PoE), but I'm hopeful that playing a build like this can shake me out of it.

Most people around here play it TB if you prefer that it works more smoothly than the Deadfire TB.

I like the RTwP because it opens up more tactical options like countering spells and zerg rushes.

 

[Sarathiour]

Spoiler

Okay, now I'm confused about how math work on golarion.
It's a force punch casted on level 13, which has crited.
Firstly I have now idea from where the +4 is coming from, it only show up under demonic rage, but it should +2, not to +4 (minor aspect is allegedly irrelevant, I picked incubus).
Secondly, it should be (40+20)*2 = 120 damage+8, so still not 132.

I'm at loss here.

 

[Parabalus]

Spoiler

Okay, now I'm confused about how math work on golarion.
It's a force punch casted on level 13, which has crited.
Firstly I have now idea from where the +4 is coming from, it only show up under demonic rage, but it should +2, not to +4 (minor aspect is allegedly irrelevant, I picked incubus).
Secondly, it should be (40+20)*2 = 120 damage+8, so still not 132.

I'm at loss here.

40+4+20+2?

 

[Sarathiour]

Yeah, but I have no idea where the fuck +4 is coming from, and why the fuck empower works on it.

 

[InD_ImaginE]

Okay, now I'm confused about how math work on golarion.
It's a force punch casted on level 13, which has crited.
Firstly I have now idea from where the +4 is coming from, it only show up under demonic rage, but it should +2, not to +4 (minor aspect is allegedly irrelevant, I picked incubus).
Secondly, it should be (40+20)*2 = 120 damage+8, so still not 132.

I'm at loss here.

Its
4 x 10 = 40, 40 + 4 = 44, 44 x 1.5 = 66, 66 x 2 = 132

 

[Sarathiour]

Yeah, I understood that's what parabulus was trying to make me understand, but the only + spell damage source that I can see find is the one from demonic rage, and it's +2.