Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Daidre]

is there any way for ember to learn haste?

Loremaster 1 lvl dip

 

[ga♥]

Better 3, so you can also give her sirocco

 

[Desiderius]

I think I’ve cast Sirocco once in my life. If it’s that important to you you’re missing out on a lot.

 

[Haplo]

Nonetheless, 3 - 9 Loremastyer levels are a solid idea. There are quite a few useful spells she could learn.
For example if you want to exploit her Enchantment capabilities (witches get most Enchantment spells and its the best supported school in the game, item wise), Greater Command is the best mid-level Enchantment spell by far.
Creeping Doom is the OP summon enemies cannot handle. Divine Power would help her land her rays. Icy Prison could be nice if you make her focus on Evocations. Restoration is very handy. You might want Crusader's Edge or maybe Breath of Life/Inspiring Recovery for cheap quasi-rezzes (can spam them within 2 rounds to heal more negative HP, also can be affected by metamagic). And so on...

 

[volklore]

Loremaster is so busted in owlcat implementation I feel bad for using it. 1 skill focus and 1 meta feat you were gonna take anyway and get to take a bunch of spells and feats from other classes, yeesh. And you can pick secrets of the same class multiple times. It's such a surefire way to fix any weakness a spell-list has at very little opportunity cost. I was a bit skeptical of how insane the reqs are in TTT but tbh, it's probably for the best, also prevents you from picking 1 class secret multiple times.
Greater Command is indeed the best, especially with the fact that it's missing some tags and thus bypasses immunities (at least it was, maybe it was fixed since then).

 

[Yosharian]

secrets of the same class multiple times

Wait what

Are you sure, that seems different to how it was when I was testing it

 

[volklore]

Tried respecing an old char with and without TTT, and I seem to remember you could (but not with TTT which limits them to 1 pick). Might be a memory hole though.

 

[ga♥]

You are limited to only 1 combat and 1 rogue secret, but can learn all the spells you want (well the secrets are what, 5 right?). Don't know if its a bug or its a "feature".

 

[ga♥]

I think I’ve cast Sirocco once in my life. If it’s that important to you you’re missing out on a lot.

"noooo you are playing wrong you need to play like I do"

Beside, why would you need haste on ember, unless it's your only arcane caster then that's missing out on a lot.

 

[volklore]

You are limited to only 1 combat and 1 rogue secret, but can learn all the spells you want (well the secrets are what, 5 right?). Don't know if its a bug or its a "feature".

Owlcat implements a lot of things that should only be 1 time picks this way, like combat tricks for rogue, vivi, slayer and bard talents. But at the same time if they did limit the martial secrets then I don't know anymore :D

 

[razvedchiki]

Beside, why would you need haste on ember, unless it's your only arcane caster then that's missing out on a lot.

because there are 5 companion slots in a party?

 

[Infinitron]

 

[ga♥]

Beside, why would you need haste on ember, unless it's your only arcane caster then that's missing out on a lot.

because there are 5 companion slots in a party?

Sure, I am not al-desiderius al talebani, just do whatever.
Sirocco is a very good spell if you play her as evocation/arcane trickster as I already mentioned.

 

[Yosharian]

Sirocco is probably the most broken spell in the game for how easy it is to get and how much effect it has on the vast majority of enemies, many bosses even.

Playing without that spell is like turning up the difficulty +1 level

 

[Haplo]

Sirocco is probably the most broken spell in the game for how easy it is to get and how much effect it has on the vast majority of enemies, many bosses even.

Playing without that spell is like turning up the difficulty +1 level

Not with TTT. Such spells cannot be made Selective there. And it's a pain to use without Selective.

 

[LannTheStupid]

You can overheal and even save (sometimes) against your own Sirocco on Hard. IMHO, it is annoying, but not unplayable.

Also, it is possible to Hold all short-ranged melee characters and move them manually to the edge of the AoE, so they do not pursue the enemies into it.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I typically don't use Sirroco. It usually gets in the way. I think I used it a few times in HatEoT in Kingmaker against a Monarch group or something, but that's about it. It's still very powerful though, and I don't besmirch people for using it. I've played around with Loremaster in TTT, and it's definitely ridiculous as far as prestige classes go. For some skill points and two feats you can nab the best of everything that isn't an explicit class ability. I'm butthurt about that, cause what I'd love to steal is Wand Mastery. It greatly annoys me how this isn't a general spellcaster feat. An archmage casting Tier 9 spells can't use a wand as potently as some half-caster gish.

 

[Desiderius]

I think I’ve cast Sirocco once in my life. If it’s that important to you you’re missing out on a lot.

"noooo you are playing wrong you need to play like I do"

Beside, why would you need haste on ember, unless it's your only arcane caster then that's missing out on a lot.

Both statements are correct.

Play better. Learning how to execute good spells is fun.

Loremaster is so busted in owlcat implementation I feel bad for using it. 1 skill focus and 1 meta feat you were gonna take anyway and get to take a bunch of spells and feats from other classes, yeesh. And you can pick secrets of the same class multiple times. It's such a surefire way to fix any weakness a spell-list has at very little opportunity cost. I was a bit skeptical of how insane the reqs are in TTT but tbh, it's probably for the best, also prevents you from picking 1 class secret multiple times.
Greater Command is indeed the best, especially with the fact that it's missing some tags and thus bypasses immunities (at least it was, maybe it was fixed since then).

I find it gives me some things I don't need at the cost of some things I do. I want the Scroll Savant progression on Nenio for instance. It's well-balanced if you're building around something you can only get from LM (unfortunately unlike P:K the Lore boosts aren't very relevant in Vanilla Wrath since you get to auto-Inspect everything without passing the check) and overrated if you aren't.

 

[Desiderius]

You can overheal and even save (sometimes) against your own Sirocco on Hard. IMHO, it is annoying, but not unplayable.

Also, it is possible to Hold all short-ranged melee characters and move them manually to the edge of the AoE, so they do not pursue the enemies into it.

You know, call me crazy, but I'd rather just kill everything with them instead.

So many better control spells and Sirocco does shitty damage if you're not standing around picking your nose for ten rounds or kiting around like you're soloing some hard game.

Beside, why would you need haste on ember, unless it's your only arcane caster then that's missing out on a lot.

because there are 5 companion slots in a party?

Wolj gets it too. There are certain party comps where you might miss it on her but not many.

 

[ga♥]

I think I’ve cast Sirocco once in my life. If it’s that important to you you’re missing out on a lot.

"noooo you are playing wrong you need to play like I do"

Beside, why would you need haste on ember, unless it's your only arcane caster then that's missing out on a lot.

Both statements are correct.

Play better. Learning how to execute good spells is fun.

You just said you never used sirocco, maybe you could learn the glory of our Lord and Savior Sirocco
Even in disabled mode turn based is hard to avoid stepping into your own sirocco?

 

[Desiderius]

I think I’ve cast Sirocco once in my life. If it’s that important to you you’re missing out on a lot.

"noooo you are playing wrong you need to play like I do"

Beside, why would you need haste on ember, unless it's your only arcane caster then that's missing out on a lot.

Both statements are correct.

Play better. Learning how to execute good spells is fun.

You just said you never used sirocco, maybe you could learn the glory of our Lord and Savior Sirocco
Even in disabled mode turn based is hard to avoid stepping into your own sirocco?

Doesn’t matter. My melee wants to stand where the Sirocco would be anyway.

Why not Charge the mobs and wipe them out before they can act? And/or use a spell that provides a more reliable (and useful) disable than Prone and its -4 AB malus to ranged attacks?

I can see the value for solo but I think people watched those solo vids, assumed it was uber, and dismissed everything else.

 

[volklore]

Sirocco is probably the most broken spell in the game for how easy it is to get and how much effect it has on the vast majority of enemies, many bosses even.

Playing without that spell is like turning up the difficulty +1 level

Sirocco is not bad but it's so kingmaker, there's massive encounter winning CC spells that come earlier than that, affect a bigger area, don't need to be made selective and have better itemization support.
Only spell more kingmaker than this is stinking cloud but I give it a pass because it's really good on that annoying drow encounter in act 2 (and quite good for gargoyles too, even though the clerics are immune)

 

[scytheavatar]

Sirocco is probably the most broken spell in the game for how easy it is to get and how much effect it has on the vast majority of enemies, many bosses even.

Playing without that spell is like turning up the difficulty +1 level

Sirocco is not bad but it's so kingmaker, there's massive encounter winning CC spells that come earlier than that, affect a bigger area, don't need to be made selective and have better itemization support.
Only spell more kingmaker than this is stinking cloud but I give it a pass because it's really good on that annoying drow encounter in act 2 (and quite good for gargoyles too, even though the clerics are immune)

Sirocco makes the enemies exhausted with no saves, and exhaust is a very powerful debuff. It could be more encounter winning than any CC, especially in Unfair where enemies from chapter 4 onwards have saves to the moon.

 

[LannTheStupid]

good for gargoyles too, even though the clerics are immune

Not the clecircs, only "Fiendish" ones or "Half-Fiends". Who are strong, but not the strongest. The "mini-boss" of the cave encounter, the cleric, is not immune to poison.

 

[volklore]

Sirocco is probably the most broken spell in the game for how easy it is to get and how much effect it has on the vast majority of enemies, many bosses even.

Playing without that spell is like turning up the difficulty +1 level

Sirocco is not bad but it's so kingmaker, there's massive encounter winning CC spells that come earlier than that, affect a bigger area, don't need to be made selective and have better itemization support.
Only spell more kingmaker than this is stinking cloud but I give it a pass because it's really good on that annoying drow encounter in act 2 (and quite good for gargoyles too, even though the clerics are immune)

Sirocco makes the enemies exhausted with no saves, and exhaust is a very powerful debuff. It could be more encounter winning than any CC, especially in Unfair where enemies from chapter 4 onwards have saves to the moon.

I don't find saves to be that big of a deal even on unfair due to the amount of itemization certain schools get and how much of a power spike casters get in act 4 with the two quicken rods (and I think a few other items for party members than help debuff saves) and how many tools wotr gives to debuff saves. And if your caster is MC, this gets even crazier because azata and demon give insane bonuses to casters.
I will agree that any debuff without save is nice to have though. I just don't find sirroco particulary convenient to use compared to others.