Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[vazha]

I ve got just one question, one only - are Sarkorians Armenian?

I'll see myself out, thankee.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

I'm finally on the last dungeon of chapter 3 (like, fuck. With all the DLC, it's insanely long). Anyhow, it's hilarious to me how the Queen and her Herald and all her army just get decimated by a bunch of low level spear demon things if you don't help them. They are useless.

 

[Desiderius]

The druids are encountered way before then, you are thinking about the scripted encounter but there are random ass druids + their buddies
waiting to fuck you up just dotted around the map

Honestly the ancient treant is way worse than the druids

Oh I cheked my notes and there's one party of exiled druids in a far corner of the map. It's obvious you don't have to fight them because they're right on the edge, not blocking your path to anything. Just an out-of-the-way challenge. The rest of the map is animals, trees, and a few demons.

Edit: Oh, I did play with standard enemies and not increased. If increased adds more druids everywhere, then you're getting what you opted into.

It's a great map. Up there with Old Sycamore.

 

[Desiderius]

ok many mobs have true sight but its usually the bosses if i remember correctly.

You can buff with mind blank to deny divination-based concealment negation. I don't remember things having true sight until late act3. Until you get it on a caster you can use scrolls, pretty sure they are sold. Only thing that can truely break through concealment is echolocation.
Also worth noting a lot of bosses with concealment also have mindblank (like playfull dorkness) so only way to break through their concealment is either dispelling the mindblank or echolocation from a UMD scroll or shared by an alchemist/BFT

Symbol of Revelation works.

 

[santino27]

To be fair it is natural behaviour in CRPGs to kill everything you come across. It isn't immediately obvious when you encounter those spirit druids, that you can actually just skip past them.

Imagine if, for example, one of your party members commented, upon entering the area, something like 'this place looks dangerous' etc

When you pick up the item, a ghost pops up to start yelling at you. I put it back because I knew if it was an encounter I was expected to manage without too many problems it'd just trigger automatically instead of giving me a warning.

Oddly, in my last playthrough, I couldn't understand the ghost. It was only through previous play-throughs that I knew what was going on (and kept the whip, because I wanted the sweet xp from 6 or 7 high level spectres)

The druids are encountered way before then, you are thinking about the scripted encounter but there are random ass druids + their buddies
waiting to fuck you up just dotted around the map

Honestly the ancient treant is way worse than the druids

Oh I cheked my notes and there's one party of exiled druids in a far corner of the map. It's obvious you don't have to fight them because they're right on the edge, not blocking your path to anything. Just an out-of-the-way challenge. The rest of the map is animals, trees, and a few demons.

Edit: Oh, I did play with standard enemies and not increased. If increased adds more druids everywhere, then you're getting what you opted into.

I'm pretty sure it adds at least one druid to the mix. On Core, it's not a big deal, but Hard/Unfair might be otherwise.

 

[volklore]

Unfair TB is really hard on squishy MC. Nothing like a wave of gargoyle spawning and double boneshaker your squishy ecclesitheurge before you can act. I came prepared for hold person in the cave with a FoM scroll but I guess I will need to bring more stuff and probably pop a bunch of summons to prevent the final wave to gang my MC. I somehow always forget how brutal early act2 is. My MC has to camp in invis every 1st round of scripted fights or it just get murdered before it can act, and my entire party has imp.initiative.

 

[Rhobar121]

Unfair TB is really hard on squishy MC. Nothing like a wave of gargoyle spawning and double boneshaker your squishy ecclesitheurge before you can act. I came prepared for hold person in the cave with a FoM scroll but I guess I will need to bring more stuff and probably pop a bunch of summons to prevent the final wave to gang my MC. I somehow always forget how brutal early act2 is. My MC has to camp in invis every 1st round of scripted fights or it just get murdered before it can act, and my entire party has imp.initiative.

The gargoyle cave is overtuned considering how early it is in the game. This mission should definitely be somewhere after the leeper's smile.
I did it once on Unfair and that's enough for me. I'd rather drink the invisibility potion and hide in the corner, waiting for Regill to kill all the gargoyles.

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah the garg cave is brutal. Cornering the garg reinforcements from the cave entrance is a valid tactic

 

[volklore]

Anybody having issues with mounted characters sometimes not making full attacks in TB when not moving? Is there a way to fix this ?

 

[Yosharian]

That happened to me all the time. The only thing that I occasionally used to fix it was switching to RTWP then back to TB

 

[LannTheStupid]

volklore As I am writing here for the umpteenth time, the Gargoyle Cave is one of the few places in the whole WotR where Delay Poison, Communal + Stinking Cloud work. Read monster descriptions.

 

[Haplo]

Unfair TB is really hard on squishy MC. Nothing like a wave of gargoyle spawning and double boneshaker your squishy ecclesitheurge before you can act. I came prepared for hold person in the cave with a FoM scroll but I guess I will need to bring more stuff and probably pop a bunch of summons to prevent the final wave to gang my MC. I somehow always forget how brutal early act2 is. My MC has to camp in invis every 1st round of scripted fights or it just get murdered before it can act, and my entire party has imp.initiative.

Improved Initative is helpful, but far from sufficient on Unfair. You need high Dex, Initiative boosting class abilities (inquisitor, instinctual warrior, Divination Wizard, Sword Saint, Sohei) or, barring that, stacking also Inspiring Leader Mythic Ability, Mythic Improved Initiative and items like Wind Helmet too.

What is really helpful there is an Intimidation character with a Thug dip.

 

[volklore]

volklore As I am writing here for the umpteenth time, the Gargoyle Cave is one of the few places in the whole WotR where Delay Poison, Communal + Stinking Cloud work. Read monster descriptions.

There is like two gargoyle (the two clerics which are part of the entrance wave at the end) that aren't ''half-fiend'' in the whole fight what are you even on about ?

 

[volklore]

Unfair TB is really hard on squishy MC. Nothing like a wave of gargoyle spawning and double boneshaker your squishy ecclesitheurge before you can act. I came prepared for hold person in the cave with a FoM scroll but I guess I will need to bring more stuff and probably pop a bunch of summons to prevent the final wave to gang my MC. I somehow always forget how brutal early act2 is. My MC has to camp in invis every 1st round of scripted fights or it just get murdered before it can act, and my entire party has imp.initiative.

Improved Initative is helpful, but far from sufficient on Unfair. You need high Dex, Initiative boosting class abilities (inquisitor, instinctual warrior, Divination Wizard, Sword Saint, Sohei) or, barring that, stacking also Inspiring Leader Mythic Ability, Mythic Improved Initiative and items like Wind Helmet too.

What is really helpful there is an Intimidation character with a Thug dip.

This was my plan pretty much. I have Saint woljiff, Sohei seelah, my ecclesi was going to eventually pick warrior priest + mythic warrior priest(TTT) and has the pickpocket BG. But some of those abilities aren't going to be online until later

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Let's not sugar coat it, the companions in Kingmaker were way more likeable and behaves less like cunts than the ones in WOTR.

Oh sweet god.

Damning praise, indeed.

Unfair TB is really hard on squishy MC. Nothing like a wave of gargoyle spawning and double boneshaker your squishy ecclesitheurge before you can act. I came prepared for hold person in the cave with a FoM scroll but I guess I will need to bring more stuff and probably pop a bunch of summons to prevent the final wave to gang my MC. I somehow always forget how brutal early act2 is. My MC has to camp in invis every 1st round of scripted fights or it just get murdered before it can act, and my entire party has imp.initiative.

The gargoyle cave is overtuned considering how early it is in the game. This mission should definitely be somewhere after the leeper's smile.
I did it once on Unfair and that's enough for me. I'd rather drink the invisibility potion and hide in the corner, waiting for Regill to kill all the gargoyles.

I was OK with this scenario, though I agree it's overtuned--even for Core. My only real complaint is that the second wave doesn't just come through the cave entrance, but also spawns behind the player. That's justifiable for winged creatures outside, but not in a cave.

 

[LannTheStupid]

There is like two gargoyle (the two clerics which are part of the entrance wave at the end) that aren't ''half-fiend'' in the whole fight what are you even on about ?

Well, read again. Also, count.

What is really helpful there is an Intimidation character with a Thug dip.

Marching Terror works, too. Will saves are not that high for most of the grunts.

 

[Desiderius]

Unfair TB is really hard on squishy MC. Nothing like a wave of gargoyle spawning and double boneshaker your squishy ecclesitheurge before you can act. I came prepared for hold person in the cave with a FoM scroll but I guess I will need to bring more stuff and probably pop a bunch of summons to prevent the final wave to gang my MC. I somehow always forget how brutal early act2 is. My MC has to camp in invis every 1st round of scripted fights or it just get murdered before it can act, and my entire party has imp.initiative.

The gargoyle cave is overtuned considering how early it is in the game. This mission should definitely be somewhere after the leeper's smile.
I did it once on Unfair and that's enough for me. I'd rather drink the invisibility potion and hide in the corner, waiting for Regill to kill all the gargoyles.

It’s either bugged or over-designed since the HK Magic Weapons don’t bypass the Garg DR/Magic, making them largely useless if you do the fight conventionally.

The guy sitting by himself down below who cheers when you find him is probably a hint that letting Reg and his boys take care of the fight themselves is not entirely unintended. LE is so balls out for survival of the fittest? Let’s see how fit they are to join my army.

The Mobility check to get there isn’t trivial.

I’ve also been able to position my MC away from the spawns to avoid undue attention, but they will beeline Good characters (if they see them) because they come with Smite Good.

 

[Desiderius]

Unfair TB is really hard on squishy MC. Nothing like a wave of gargoyle spawning and double boneshaker your squishy ecclesitheurge before you can act. I came prepared for hold person in the cave with a FoM scroll but I guess I will need to bring more stuff and probably pop a bunch of summons to prevent the final wave to gang my MC. I somehow always forget how brutal early act2 is. My MC has to camp in invis every 1st round of scripted fights or it just get murdered before it can act, and my entire party has imp.initiative.

Improved Initative is helpful, but far from sufficient on Unfair. You need high Dex, Initiative boosting class abilities (inquisitor, instinctual warrior, Divination Wizard, Sword Saint, Sohei) or, barring that, stacking also Inspiring Leader Mythic Ability, Mythic Improved Initiative and items like Wind Helmet too.

What is really helpful there is an Intimidation character with a Thug dip.

This was my plan pretty much. I have Saint woljiff, Sohei seelah, my ecclesi was going to eventually pick warrior priest + mythic warrior priest(TTT) and has the pickpocket BG. But some of those abilities aren't going to be online until later

P:K and Wrath give inactive companions EXP (unlike BG) for a reason. The game isn’t designed to be played straight through with the same six-man party. Gargs Smite Good is a massive bonus, especially on Unfair, but not vs non-Good companions.

 

[Rhobar121]

Unfair TB is really hard on squishy MC. Nothing like a wave of gargoyle spawning and double boneshaker your squishy ecclesitheurge before you can act. I came prepared for hold person in the cave with a FoM scroll but I guess I will need to bring more stuff and probably pop a bunch of summons to prevent the final wave to gang my MC. I somehow always forget how brutal early act2 is. My MC has to camp in invis every 1st round of scripted fights or it just get murdered before it can act, and my entire party has imp.initiative.

Improved Initative is helpful, but far from sufficient on Unfair. You need high Dex, Initiative boosting class abilities (inquisitor, instinctual warrior, Divination Wizard, Sword Saint, Sohei) or, barring that, stacking also Inspiring Leader Mythic Ability, Mythic Improved Initiative and items like Wind Helmet too.

What is really helpful there is an Intimidation character with a Thug dip.

This was my plan pretty much. I have Saint woljiff, Sohei seelah, my ecclesi was going to eventually pick warrior priest + mythic warrior priest(TTT) and has the pickpocket BG. But some of those abilities aren't going to be online until later

P:K and Wrath give inactive companions EXP (unlike BG) for a reason. The game isn’t designed to be played straight through with the same six-man party. Gargs Smite Good is a massive bonus, especially on Unfair, but not vs non-Good companions.

I wouldn't call that a good argument, given that the AI ignores everything except the main character in this fight anyway

In this case, Pathfinder is closer to newer Bioware games like DA or ME where there is a lot of emphasis on being able to experience as much content as possible during one playthrough.
Given that companions are what largely sell Bioware games, it makes sense to let the player experience as much of their content as possible.
I bet in about 4-5 years their next game will be more like DA or ME than what they've done so far.

In the case of newer crpg games, Pathfinder is probably the only game that for some reason only allows exp for active companions (which causes some problems with exp).

In both games you can lose companions during the game (especially in Kingsmaker), if you couldn't replace them it would be stupid and problematic (mercenaries are hard to call a full-fledged character).

 

[LannTheStupid]

newer Bioware games like DA or ME

Which Dragon Age? If you are mixing Origins and Inquisition here, then...

if you couldn't replace them it would be stupid and problematic

Why? It is the consequence of the player's choices. C&C should be heavy and hard-hitting, not a reprimand in high school.

 

[Rhobar121]

newer Bioware games like DA or ME

Which Dragon Age? If you are mixing Origins and Inquisition here, then...

It doesn't matter, the emphasis on companions (with better or worse results) has been put by bioware for years.
They have noticed that it sells and have been focusing on it for a long time.

I bet there will be even more of that in the new Owlcat game.
There's also this unannounced third person game that smells like a Russian copy of ME.

if you couldn't replace them it would be stupid and problematic

Why? It is the consequence of the player's choices. C&C should be heavy and hard-hitting, not a reprimand in high school.

You don't design games that way, at least if you have bigger ambitions than being a niche studio. Owlcat learned this from Kingsmaker, where one wrong choice meant you could practically restart the playthrough. Of course you found out 20 hours later.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Rhobar121 I see. So your point is that Owlcat Games will follow the business logic and, in the end, become the same soulless husk as modern Bioware.

That I can agree with. However, this is the natural cycle of life, and some other studio will take their place, become awesome, then rich, and then die.

 

[Skorpion]

AI in Blackwater HATES my succubus, every fight through that entire dungeon they just beelined for her every time all fight unless they were locked down somehow.
I had to keep dimmension dooring her around with Ember and hoping AoO would get them but they have such high immunities. Was a hilarious run through an otherwise aweful dungeon to be sure.
Also Im curious if I should now beat up the demons under my castle before Queeny shows up (this is an option for azatas apparently) or wait for her majesty hmmmm what do the bros think? Assuming you played azata before

 

[Jackpot]

everytime I want to get back into this game I try to play the inevitable excess dlc I bought, get hit with the bullshit demons from the last act of the game, and lose all interest
considering putting the game on easy for this dlc just to get it over with

 

[Desiderius]

Pathfinder is probably the only game that for some reason only allows exp for active companions (which causes some problems with exp)

This is incorrect. On the default experience sharing setting all experience is divided by six and all companions get it. Sucks when you don't have six yet (which is why people play with it), but once you have more than six they still all get it whether they're in your party or not.

When I did Garg Cave Unfair with a non-Good MC the Gargs beelined Seelah and Sos, not my MC.