Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Sarathiour]

Any must have mods for first playtrough?

Bubbles, and then it depends on what you're going to play. Toolbox is probably a good idea given how broken the game still is.

 

[Sarathiour]

Also, I just noticed that golden dragon is not getting the supposed bonused on skill at mythic 9 either.

Also this happened :

Spoiler

I don't have a clue.

 

[Kaivokz]

My main beef with tabletop tweak is tow of the point you mentioned : DR is mostly irrelevant by the time you're getting it, stacking is the only thing that keep it somewhat useful.
Nerfing magic vestment while simultaneously allowing to be cast on unarmored character is also pretty bad, monk dip + archmage armor is already a meme, you don't need tu push people further into this direction.

Trying to autisticly emulate tabletop is a bad idea, a few balance change are obviously necessary.

Also I get that elemental barrage needed to be fix for magus/warpriest/djin abuse, but how exactly does it function post-fix ?

You can turn all changes on or off individually via the mod manager, so you don’t need to play with the DR change.

The “solution” to armored characters’ AC being a buggy implementation of magical vestments doesn’t sit right with me—but the mod has a bunch of tabletop options for armored characters to increase their AC, including fighter armor training and mythic abilities.

• Armored Might
  • You treat the armor bonus from your armor as 50% higher than normal, to a maximum increase of half your mythic rank plus one.
• Armor Master
  • While wearing armor, you reduce the armor check penalty by 1 per mythic rank and increase the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by by 1 per mythic rank. Additionally you reduce your arcane spell failure chance from armor and sheilds by 5% per mythic rank.

• Armor Specialization
  • The fighter selects one specific type of armor with which he is proficient, such as light or heavy. While wearing the selected type of armor, the fighter adds one-quarter of his fighter level to the armor''s armor bonus, up to a maximum bonus of +3 for light armor, +4 for medium armor, or +5 for heavy armor. This increase to the armor bonus doesn't increase the benefit that the fighter gains from feats, class abilities, or other effects that are determined by his armor's base armor bonus, including other advanced armor training options.

But for hard and below, you don’t really seem to need anything but what the game gives you (esp. if you use Daeran and Nenio for control). For unfair, maybe the new feats/abilities would put armored characters into the realm of unarmored AC, but I don’t think AC stacking is really the way to go anyway; it’s just one tool at your disposal, and a pretty limited one given the way crits work and how many attacks some things get.

On elemental barrage… the whole concept of it seems silly to me and not something I would use, so I didn’t look at how tabletop tweaks affects it.

 

[Yosharian]

Any must have mods for first playtrough?

I have a list on my Steam page

 

[Sarathiour]

My main beef with tabletop tweak is tow of the point you mentioned : DR is mostly irrelevant by the time you're getting it, stacking is the only thing that keep it somewhat useful.
Nerfing magic vestment while simultaneously allowing to be cast on unarmored character is also pretty bad, monk dip + archmage armor is already a meme, you don't need tu push people further into this direction.

Trying to autisticly emulate tabletop is a bad idea, a few balance change are obviously necessary.

Also I get that elemental barrage needed to be fix for magus/warpriest/djin abuse, but how exactly does it function post-fix ?

You can turn all changes on or off individually via the mod manager, so you don’t need to play with the DR change.

The “solution” to armored characters’ AC being a buggy implementation of magical vestments doesn’t sit right with me—but the mod has a bunch of tabletop options for armored characters to increase their AC, including fighter armor training and mythic abilities.

• Armored Might
  • You treat the armor bonus from your armor as 50% higher than normal, to a maximum increase of half your mythic rank plus one.
• Armor Master
  • While wearing armor, you reduce the armor check penalty by 1 per mythic rank and increase the maximum Dexterity bonus allowed by by 1 per mythic rank. Additionally you reduce your arcane spell failure chance from armor and sheilds by 5% per mythic rank.

• Armor Specialization
  • The fighter selects one specific type of armor with which he is proficient, such as light or heavy. While wearing the selected type of armor, the fighter adds one-quarter of his fighter level to the armor''s armor bonus, up to a maximum bonus of +3 for light armor, +4 for medium armor, or +5 for heavy armor. This increase to the armor bonus doesn't increase the benefit that the fighter gains from feats, class abilities, or other effects that are determined by his armor's base armor bonus, including other advanced armor training options.

But for hard and below, you don’t really seem to need anything but what the game gives you (esp. if you use Daeran and Nenio for control). For unfair, maybe the new feats/abilities would put armored characters into the realm of unarmored AC, but I don’t think AC stacking is really the way to go anyway; it’s just one tool at your disposal, and a pretty limited one given the way crits work and how many attacks some things get.

On elemental barrage… the whole concept of it seems silly to me and not something I would use, so I didn’t look at how tabletop tweaks affects it.

To be fair, I'm mostly bitching, the mod is probably still a net improvement given the current state of the game. I also agree with some of his homebrew, like making bolster +2 instead of +1, given than the vast majority of damage spell work on a d6, it's outclassing empowered unless you're also using maximize, and you're probably using a rod for that.

As I said, AC is mostly a meme anyway, it's often more a QoL thing than a requirement to win fight.

If the modified version of elemental barrage end up just being a poor man's leading strike that require special setup, I don't think anyone will even bother considering it.

 

[Sarathiour]

Any must have mods for first playtrough?

I have a list on my Steam page

By the way, alignement shift is already included as an option in toybox.

 

[Yosharian]

Any must have mods for first playtrough?

I have a list on my Steam page

By the way, alignement shift is already included as an option in toybox.

The mod does more than just shift your alignment though

 

[rusty_shackleford]

When will Owlcat implement Sacred Geometry?

 

[Cryomancer]

IDK, I wanna them to implement PACT Wizard.

Anyway, about next PF game

 

[Average Manatee]

Anyone here had a problem with flickering shadows? Game looks awful for me with every shadow in the game flickering back and forth whenever you move the camera unless turning shadows off completely, which also makes the game look awful. Never had a problem with Kingmaker. I can't find anything online about how to fix this.

EDIT: Actually medium shadows fixes it, but it's comically low resolution. Shadow pixels are the size of my fist.

 

[NJClaw]

When will Owlcat implement Sacred Geometry?

The only sensible implementation would be the one where the player actually has to roll the dice and make the operations by himself. But I don't think Owlcat has the UI designing capabilities to do something like that.

 

[gurugeorge]

Very much enjoying the game mechanics-wise - it's like sinking ever deeper into a relaxing bath, it seems you can never quite understand it precisely enough, there's always some little wrinkle you never noticed

The one thing that's hacking me off big time though (same as the last time I played it), is the fucking global map travel - all that pointless zig-zagging and unnecessary stopping points (why have stopping points where there's no junction?). It just seems like busywork put there to frustrate you, unlike with PFK where it felt like you were exploring and coming across interesting things at a reasonable pace.

I guess you're supposed to get your armies to noodle around ahead of you, and that does alleviate some of the pain - but there's still all that stupid zig-zagging and those unnecessary non-junction points.

 

[Desiderius]

Also I get that elemental barrage needed to be fix for magus/warpriest/djin abuse, but how exactly does it function post-fix ?

It wasn't abuse in the first place. It's only worth it for specific classes and the people tacking it on to everything were just nerfing themselves compared to what their classes could already do.

Many such cases.

The map has so many zig zags for the same reason the surface on the brain is folded, not smooth. In the case of the brain its to increase the (2-D) surface area in a given (3-D) volume, for the map the (1-D) travel distance in a given (2-D) map size. The point of this is to make skills matter in traveling. If you get your Religion up you can rest more, and Nature lets you travel longer per rest.

 

[Sarathiour]

It wasn't abuse in the first place. It's only worth it for specific classes and the people tacking it on to everything were just nerfing themselves compared to what their classes could already do.

Having tested in on camillia, it indeed seems overhyped. It's certainly good, but not even close to the most gamebreaking thing.

there's still all that stupid zig-zagging and those unnecessary non-junction points.

Desiderius give your the game-wise explanation.

Lore-wise, the worlwound is a region that's supposedly horribly mutated and hostile, so probably not something that can be traveled by simply go straight from A to B.

 

[Cryomancer]

Camilla, you fuck her and them give her to the authorities to answer for her crimes.

 

[onemananadhisdroid]

I bought the game upon release, and enjoyed my time with it (same as with Kingmaker) but generally didn't play much games last year. During my holiday back then, I made it close to Drezen. Haven't played hugely further since.

I think I'll put this on hold until the Enhanced updates comes either way, as I'm in the mood for more compact games right now. Additionally, I've never been a huge fan of how Owlcat approach combat / balance: It seems after they've finished doing a map, they take a look over it, and place additional mobs wherever there may be an empty spot still. Obviously this was at its most pronounced in Kingmaker's late game, with the same paste&copy mobs all over the place.

Unlike Kingmaker, I also exclusively played WOTR in TB so far, which naturally shifts the game-time balance even more in favor of combat -- I had no issue with scenarios such as the "tavern defense" in the first chapter of the game in TB though, even if it lasted like forever -- that was an unusual by Owlcat standards scenario that spiced things up a bit. Thinking back about it, this rather samey Owlcat kind of pacing is likely one of the reasons I liked the bloom chapter in Kingmaker best where you had to do a little detecitve work, as that was such a welcome change.

If both Pathfinders had more detailed stats, I wonder what the enemy kill count would look like at the end of either game. It must be through the roof compared to all the other contemporary BG-likes, probably even when compared to Icewind Dale (which has more varied enemies and as a game with a focus on fighting, more varied combat scenarios, imo).

Less (but more varied) would be more. Plus a few more quests where you actually had to think a bit rather than just running around and/or killing things to reach completion stage (more recently I had "finished" the Heaven's Edge quest, "While the world burns", which had an intriguing set-up, but kind of played itself -- this isn't the bloody Witcher, is it).

 

[Sarathiour]

I bought the game upon release

We all make mistakes sometimes.

Plus a few more quests where you actually had to think a bit rather than just running around

Boy I hope you like puzzle

Speaking of, does someone have a link toward an explanation of the solution for all those puzzle ? It's easy to find the solution, but the logic behind it escape me sometimes, and the steam page for it is outright wrong.

I also advise you against having nenio die in the enigma, because after defeating the big bad, she died falling into one the rift pit, softlocking me because I can't speak to her neither resurect her as she's currently a dead npc.

 

[Humbaba]

unnecessary stopping points (why have stopping points where there's no junction?).

Some locations only get revealed at certain points in the game, maybe that's why some junctions seem to go nowhere.

 

[razvedchiki]

how much is the extra dmg the longspear does on a cavalier charge (using tabletop tweaks).
they also seem to have fixed loremaster with todays patch.

 

[Sarathiour]

Some locations only get revealed at certain points in the game, maybe that's why some junctions seem to go nowhere.

I also suspect them intentionally leaving place for some path-exclusive location, but ending up not using them.

 

[gurugeorge]

The map has so many zig zags for the same reason the surface on the brain is folded, not smooth. In the case of the brain its to increase the (2-D) surface area in a given (3-D) volume, for the map the (1-D) travel distance in a given (2-D) map size. The point of this is to make skills matter in traveling. If you get your Religion up you can rest more, and Nature lets you travel longer per rest.

Lore-wise, the worlwound is a region that's supposedly horribly mutated and hostile, so probably not something that can be traveled by simply go straight from A to B.

OK wise guys, explain the "nodes" that are not junction nodes but just stop your travel for no apparent reason

The lore point yes, but there's nothing set in stone that says it has to be tedious and annoying zigzagging. You just want a Potemkin impression of tedious and annoying zigzagging. The gameplay point, I could see that in PFK in terms of hoiking around resources. I can't see it here, as I've never once had a problem with the corruption thingy per foray. It's always better to just build a teleport in Drezen, teleports at the more far-flung outposts when available, do a couple of question marks per foray and then teleport back (you have to anyway, as there are always people that want to see you in person often enough).

I can understand the intent, it's just one of the less-well done, and most annoying aspects of the game.

 

[Haplo]

how much is the extra dmg the longspear does on a cavalier charge (using tabletop tweaks).
they also seem to have fixed loremaster with todays patch.

Cavalier charge is pretty irrelevant (I mean the +2 AB bonus is nice but not game-changing), at least prior to level 20. Spirited Charge feat is important.
Spirited charge does double all damage sources in vanilla and triple longspear damage with modifiers with Tabletop Tweaks (but without elemental damages, sneak dice, banes, axiomatic/holy, additional damage procs and so on).
Also TableTop tweaks disables Charge damage bonuses for additional iterative attacks - like in case of Pounce (only the first attack gets Charge bonuses).
In vanilla you even get Spirited Charge bonus on Attacks of Opportunity performed before your next round.

In practice with TT, the Spirited Charge values, even with a longspear, end up a fraction of what damage you can pump in vanilla.

 

[razvedchiki]

so with TT the charge dmg is actually worse?

 

[Delterius]

OK wise guys, explain the "nodes" that are not junction nodes but just stop your travel for no apparent reason

the land clearly mutated a wall or a gorge in there

 

[Haplo]

so with TT the charge dmg is actually worse?

Yes, by a lot.
Truer to the TableTop rules, though