Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous - Game of the Year Edition

[Delterius]

No really, i'm supposed to play this real time like kingmaker or turn?

Cuz i can already see alot of bullshit damage calc and movement, like the swarms can 100-0 my full party in a single turn.

both

 

[Yosharian]

I thought TB is what you use to cheese swarms?

No, run away from them in RTWP mode, they can't catch up with you, engage TB to fight them then when it's their turn, engage RTWP and run away again

 

[Desiderius]

I found it plays better on TB, if a bit slower. There's too much bullshit going on to play RTwP comfortably.
I wish they had an actual speed button like in Pillars. Tactical Time Flow feels rubbish to use.

It does. The ‘v’ button advances time frame by frame or you can set autopauses for any level of granularity.

RTwP is designed to be played like TB with more realistic movement and the ability to do things like interrupt spells with damage. It’s not supposed to be played like Diablo, hence the P.

Those too lazy to read or proud to ask are in a poor position to make categorical statements.

 

[Desiderius]

I thought TB is what you use to cheese swarms?

No, run away from them in RTWP mode, they can't catch up with you, engage TB to fight them then when it's their turn, engage RTWP and run away again

God forbid you simply suck less. Always looking for the one weird trick when basic competence would save you the effort.

Swarms suck at extremely low levels because you don’t really have the tools yet to effectively counter them (which is why they changed the early Swarms in Market to take half damage from weapons).

For some reason Owlcat thought item bombs were good against them in P:K and Through the Ashes so that’s where the meme came from. High level swarms are vulnerable to all sorts of things.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

I found it plays better on TB, if a bit slower. There's too much bullshit going on to play RTwP comfortably.
I wish they had an actual speed button like in Pillars. Tactical Time Flow feels rubbish to use.

It does. The ‘v’ button advances time frame by frame or you can set autopauses for any level of granularity.

RTwP is designed to be played like TB with more realistic movement and the ability to do things like interrupt spells with damage. It’s not supposed to be played like Diablo, hence the P.

Those too lazy to read or proud to ask are in a poor position to make categorical statements.

Yes, I know how it works, and I find it awkward to use. I don't like having to hold down the v button.
Its an poor implementation of a proper time control button. I just ended up playing on TB for most of the game except for really easy fights.
Most RTwP games allow slow down or speed up combat to whatever degree you want so I don't know why they designed it that way instead of designing it properly.

 

[Desiderius]

I found it plays better on TB, if a bit slower. There's too much bullshit going on to play RTwP comfortably.
I wish they had an actual speed button like in Pillars. Tactical Time Flow feels rubbish to use.

It does. The ‘v’ button advances time frame by frame or you can set autopauses for any level of granularity.

RTwP is designed to be played like TB with more realistic movement and the ability to do things like interrupt spells with damage. It’s not supposed to be played like Diablo, hence the P.

Those too lazy to read or proud to ask are in a poor position to make categorical statements.

Yes, I know how it works, and I find it awkward to use. I don't like having to hold down the v button.
Its an poor implementation of a proper time control button. I just ended up playing on TB for most of the game except for really easy fights.

You don’t have to hold it down all the time, only when you have multiple actions close together in time or want to interrupt something. Otherwise you unpause and let autopause stop time for you.

RPGs are much different from RT strategy games where your actions take an extended period of time to come into effect. Here your actions either take immediate effect or are mediated by the initiative queue which you can configure the game to show over the head of each character/enemy.

 

[Nirvash]

Swarms are bugged and attack 153 times/turn or something in real time, is broken.

If you can't kill those on sight, you are fucked, hard.

 

[gurugeorge]

Jesus Christ, I'd done the Enigma (Nenio quest, lategame egyptian temple with loads of puzzles and stones with blue lines shit) once before but I'd forgotten how horrifically awful it is. Absolutely the most annoying and irritating puzzle shit level ever designed in any game ever.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

That applies to all of the Wotr's puzzles.

 

[Average Manatee]

The tile puzzles are OK, because you learn on an easy one and its repeated. The shapes are obnoxious, its best to get out a pen and paper and assign numbers to the symbols and do the puzzle with numbers (thinking on it, actually cutting out physical tiles with numbers and matching them would probably be the best and make it quite easy to solve). The fact that there's a pretty clear set of rules and you can make it pretty easy if you actually put in the effort means I like it.

I guess the sequence of symbol puzzles in the Sanctum are OK. Kind of easy and its mostly just annoying because its easy to mix up which clue is for what.

The puzzle with the levers that raised/lowered bridges was... well not that bad.

Rest of them were trash.

Also makes no sense that you can't use character skills at all to get some kind of insight. The rules for a lot of the puzzles are completely inscrutable otherwise, a DC 30-40 check to just know that should have been a thing. Maybe a DC 40-50 skill check to get further hints or know a few first steps.

EDIT: Actually, I now remember that one of the tile puzzles had at least two solutions and only 1 of them was accepted as correct by the game. Wasted like an hour of my time. So fuck the tile puzzles I guess, Owlcat is incompetent.

 

[Sarathiour]

The tiles puzzle can go fuck itself for not letting me rearrange the tile as I would like inside my inventory.

 

[Delterius]

i remember people complaining in kingmaker about the fucking fey world lantern and how that's a stupid puzzle, to which i was like what the fuck is wrong with you.

but the moment i saw the wotr tiles i just tuned out and looked up the solution. it would be the same if the game just broke out a crossword puzzle at me. it's not what i'm here for.

 

[vitellus]

rtwp for the easy trash and for the literal tail end, last mob standing, bullshit cleanup that devolves in just clicking attack on the mob. tb is for when your ass gets handed to you because you miscalculated or are retarded or you're actually playing above the normal difficulty. i tend to play the daring setting as i don't have the patience for the higher difficulties.

 

[gurugeorge]

Apart from the peering-at-tiny-icons aspect of it, I've mostly enjoyed about a third of the puzzlage in the game. But that Enigma quest zone, I just find it awful and annoying - subjectively it feels like the game has stopped and you'll never get out of there

 

[Nirvash]

My god, turn based is super easy mode.

 

[CthuluIsSpy]

Yeah, the game gets a lot less chaotic and more manageable on TB.
There are some exceptions though; if an enemy caster gets initiative and throws a blade barrier before you have time to disperse you will die.

 

[Average Manatee]

Should really be using both even if you aren't trying to exploit the system. Being able to move 5 feet to the side in real time in order to start a charge then switch to TB to ensure nothing blocks them during it is priceless. Same for going to TB to aim an AoE

 

[Nerevar]

Okay I've finished angel and lich now I'm going for trickster.

I found this build online (crpgbro youtube) for trickster skald looks pretty fun.

Skald Build

Skald 2H Build:

Class - Skald
Race - Human
Background - Pickpocket
Ability Scores - 19 > 24, 12, 14, 12, 8, 14
Skills - Athletics, Both Knowledges, Both Lores


1 Lingering Performance // Power Attack // Metamagic (Extend Spell)
2 Cleave
3 Extra Rage Power - Animal Fury // Beast Totem, Lesser
4 Spells
5 Cleaving Finish or Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Fauchard
6 Lethal Stance
7 Outflank // Combat Reflexes
8 Spells
9 Seize the Moment // Beast Totem
10 Spells
11 Improved Critical: Falchion or Fauchard
12 Beast Totem, Greater // Improved Initiative
13 Improved Improved Critical
14 Spells
15 Improved Improved Improved Critical // Deadly Accuracy
16 Spells
17 Improved Improved Improved Critical Improved // Weapon Focus (Falchion)
18 Lethal Acuracy
19 Metamagic (Completely Normal Spell)
20 Spells



Trickster Mythic Path

1 Close to the Abyss // Ever Ready
2 Power Attack (Mythic)
3 Last Stand or Mythic Charge // Knowledge (Arcana) 1 rank
4 Improved Critical (Mythic) // Perception 1 rank // Perception 2 rank
5 Mythic Charge or Last Stand // Athletics 1 Rank
6 Improved Initiative (Mythic) // Infuse Magic Device // Reuse Magic Device
7 Elemental Barrage // Knowledge (World) 1 rank // Use Magic Device 3 rank
8 Archmage Armor // Lore (Religion) 1 rank / Knowledge (World) 2 rank
9 Enduring Spells // Lore (Nature) 1 rank // Athletics 2 rank
10 Greater Enduring Spells // Athletics 3 rank

Not too bad but I think I'll drop STR a bit for extra INT for more skills really want persuasion I can do greataxe instead of falchion. Why do people still use falchion? Shouldn't I have shatter defenses too? Would the dual scimitar skald be better?

 

[gurugeorge]

Okay I've finished angel and lich now I'm going for trickster.

I found this build online (crpgbro youtube) for trickster skald looks pretty fun.

Skald Build

Skald 2H Build:

Class - Skald
Race - Human
Background - Pickpocket
Ability Scores - 19 > 24, 12, 14, 12, 8, 14
Skills - Athletics, Both Knowledges, Both Lores


1 Lingering Performance // Power Attack // Metamagic (Extend Spell)
2 Cleave
3 Extra Rage Power - Animal Fury // Beast Totem, Lesser
4 Spells
5 Cleaving Finish or Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Fauchard
6 Lethal Stance
7 Outflank // Combat Reflexes
8 Spells
9 Seize the Moment // Beast Totem
10 Spells
11 Improved Critical: Falchion or Fauchard
12 Beast Totem, Greater // Improved Initiative
13 Improved Improved Critical
14 Spells
15 Improved Improved Improved Critical // Deadly Accuracy
16 Spells
17 Improved Improved Improved Critical Improved // Weapon Focus (Falchion)
18 Lethal Acuracy
19 Metamagic (Completely Normal Spell)
20 Spells



Trickster Mythic Path

1 Close to the Abyss // Ever Ready
2 Power Attack (Mythic)
3 Last Stand or Mythic Charge // Knowledge (Arcana) 1 rank
4 Improved Critical (Mythic) // Perception 1 rank // Perception 2 rank
5 Mythic Charge or Last Stand // Athletics 1 Rank
6 Improved Initiative (Mythic) // Infuse Magic Device // Reuse Magic Device
7 Elemental Barrage // Knowledge (World) 1 rank // Use Magic Device 3 rank
8 Archmage Armor // Lore (Religion) 1 rank / Knowledge (World) 2 rank
9 Enduring Spells // Lore (Nature) 1 rank // Athletics 2 rank
10 Greater Enduring Spells // Athletics 3 rank

Not too bad but I think I'll drop STR a bit for extra INT for more skills really want persuasion I can do greataxe instead of falchion. Why do people still use falchion? Shouldn't I have shatter defenses too? Would the dual scimitar skald be better?

I like CRPGBro's builds, they are very good, but a lot of them are interdependent and are built as/for teams with lots of tripping pets and interlocking outflank/shatter defenses synergies. (It was the same in PFK: although you can build quite varied and workable characters of all sorts in the system, at the end of the day, team synergies, AoOs and lots of free hits are king - which is either cool and efficient or boring and OP, depending on how you look at it )

That said, this Skald build is one that doesn't have a pet, and there are a few other of his builds that can live outside the team synergy business.

 

[Desiderius]

There are many, many ways to skin the cat.

Falchion is nice for wide crit range and there are some interesting uniques. There's one Greataxe with 18-20 but it has lower enchantment level.

CPRGBro's build is the typical memetard "designing for soloing a six-man game" which is particularly bad for a *Skald* but whatever. The usual spazzing out on the bites too.

Just play the game and whatever you come up with will likely be better than this. For Trickster builds think about which Mythic Tricks you want to use then design backward from there. Highly recommend TTT's Mythic redo for Trickster if you've already played the game twice.

 

[Nerevar]

That's right I should have a bit of fun. Worried about ab though.

The Vivisectionist could hit anything easily with true mutagen. Maybe I should just make a Mutation warrior trickster and keep the skald for merc. Not started the playthrough yet I'll wait a bit.

It'll be on the 2nd hardest difficulty so I need to be a bit strong.

 

[Desiderius]

Mutagens are overrated. Doesn't hit +3 AB until level 12 (and +4 at 16) on Vivi, which is a 3/4 class with no other way to boost it's AB. Mutation Warrior doesn't hit +3 until *lvl 15* and sacrifices Armor Training which means it takes the movement penalty (including Charge range) for Medium and Heavy Armor, aside from the DEX bonus limits. Also doesn't unlock the Advanced Armor Training features in TTT/Dark Codex.

AB is just not that hard to get in general and you're operating on a 1-100 scale instead of the familiar 1-30 from 3.5 or 1-60 in P:K. The Nat armor bonus is nice but there are a few other ways to pick that up as well. Why not have fun with a class that hasn't already been done to death by the powhurrdurrgamers and show them what this rule set can do?

 

[Average Manatee]

Not too bad but I think I'll drop STR a bit for extra INT for more skills really want persuasion I can do greataxe instead of falchion. Why do people still use falchion? Shouldn't I have shatter defenses too? Would the dual scimitar skald be better?

Only reason to go Falchion is for Jinx

https://pathfinderwrathoftherighteous.wiki.fextralife.com/Jinx

The description lies, if it hits something that is hexed then it straight up just hits twice, effectively doubling everything. It's not quite great as it sounds since in practice you're not going to use hexes much except for boss fights.

 

[scytheavatar]

Not too bad but I think I'll drop STR a bit for extra INT for more skills really want persuasion I can do greataxe instead of falchion. Why do people still use falchion? Shouldn't I have shatter defenses too? Would the dual scimitar skald be better?

Only reason to go Falchion is for Jinx

https://pathfinderwrathoftherighteous.wiki.fextralife.com/Jinx

The description lies, if it hits something that is hexed then it straight up just hits twice, effectively doubling everything. It's not quite great as it sounds since in practice you're not going to use hexes much except for boss fights.

At higher difficulties almost every battle is a boss fight so.......

 

[Average Manatee]

Not really with good builds. By chapter 2-3 your melee characters should be able to 1-turn most common enemies they can get a full attack on. In such a scenario wasting another character's time to cast a hex for even more damage isn't a great use of a turn. Hard difficulty even more so.

If you have martial proficiency anyway and are a class that can apply Keen to your weapon for maximum crit rate then its fine to pull out of your pocket for bosses though.