Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Anonymous Wife Scholar]

What if I hate dogs (because I really do)?

No!

 

[AwesomeButton]

Yeah he is a fellow chad slav. I am curious if he is a codexer.

I had suspicions but I think he isn't coming here.

 

[Pink Eye]

KoTC 2 on other hand had such a glorious 1.0 version that comparing to it Wrath looks super polished. And even when this mess with endless crashes, corrupted saves and perpetually stuck combat got more a less fixed, the whole campaign is still just a four(!) medium sized maps glued together without any story, dialogues and even basic common sense. But with math puzzles and level 6 characters swinging +4 weapons in chapter 2.

Hilarious. All things considered when Wrath Crashed on me when I launched it!

:D :D :D :D :D

 

[smaug]

Care to elaborate? what don't you like?

A while ago I played a neat little game called Knights of the Chalice 2. To explain why I don't like Wrath would mean for me to make references to that game. Since I played the beta for only thirty hours. Meaning I've played through the prologue about three times during each subsequent Beta Test; amounting to three tests in total, so three attempts- and since prologue lasts a good amount of hours, serving as a first impression of sorts. I can safely that I've sufficient enough experience to conclude - the game isn't for me. Let's go back in time. Kingmaker used to provide me with something that not many games could. Character Builds. To illustrate the point, I have two thousand something hours in Kingmaker; however, most of that spent was spent planning character builds. Testing them, etc. I've only actually beat the game *twice*. Suffering through Kingmaker's gameplay didn't impede my enjoyment if I could mess around the character builds. Going back to it, Kingmaker aged like milk.

Then I played Chalice 2. A game with fantastic gameplay *and* character building. You have: Ascensions, Hundreds of Feats; that by the way is not a joke. See:

Spoiler

There's a bunch of 'em sorted into different categories

Twenty Two Classes:

Spoiler

Each class has its unique identity - there's no redundancy in between. Here are two examples. In the game warlock gets access to both Psionics plus Wizard spell list. Class sheet:

Spoiler

However, because of the flexibility the class provides. It loses out on the specialization feats that Wizard would gain. Furthermore the class requires more stats to work: CHA, INT, WIS.

Another example is Bishop. Class sheet:

Spoiler

Bishop starts with better BAB, more domains. Unlike the base Cleric it loses out on specialization feats, ninth level spells, etc. The point that I'm demonstrating in this exercise is that there's enough mechanical differences in between the classes that they're different enough while also serving a niche depending on your party needs.

The last thing that I'd like to go over is the encounter design. Consider the Spider Queen you can face in Chalice 2:

Watch how she uses combat maneuvers to outplay me. Repositions. Casts spells. She does all of these interesting things. We call those "tactics", significant because it's what keeps the game exciting. In contrast, examine Wrath of the Righteous encounter:

Witness how it autoattacks me over and over and over and over. No clever use of combat mechanics to outplay me. We call that an action game. By the way I did that fight many times with the AI option turned on - it doesn't do anything. I've even watched FriendlyMerchant's steam with it turned on. Nothing.

When your gamplay sucks, and your encounters suck. I am not playing your game.

I'm starting to want to see Mishu-mishu play his own game on Core. Just to see his reaction to his own game.

I bet that comparing to Pierre he can actually win at least one fight in his own game.

That's cute. You're cute! Considering I've never seen Owlcats play Kingmaker on Unfair. Speaking of which. All of their streams playing Kingmaker was on normal :D

I thought KOTC2 was circle icons.. Did they update it, because if so I’ll check it out.

 

[Daidre]

KoTC 2 on other hand had such a glorious 1.0 version that comparing to it Wrath looks super polished. And even when this mess with endless crashes, corrupted saves and perpetually stuck combat got more a less fixed, the whole campaign is still just a four(!) medium sized maps glued together without any story, dialogues and even basic common sense. But with math puzzles and level 6 characters swinging +4 weapons in chapter 2.

Hilarious. All things considered when Wrath Crashed on me when I launched it!

:D :D :D :D :D

At least it is honest and it does inform you when it can't save your game for some reason instead of pretending that everything is ok until you try to load all of your 5 iterated saves to find all of them broken.

 

[Denim Destroyer]

I can't think of anything Owlcat is particularly good at when it comes to game design but I still find myself playing their games for hours on end so they are doing something right.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I'm quite surprised how Pink Eye did his 180 turn. From mega Owlcat fanboy to being totally disinterested in Wrathfinder.

 

[Pink Eye]

At least it is honest and it does inform you when it can't save your game for some reason instead of pretending that everything is ok until you try to load all of your 5 iterated saves to find all of them broken.

>At least it is honest
Honest how? I weep for those people that planned their character builds around a certain mythic path. Only to discover later on. That its broken. Yeah, okay, whatever you say Simildon.

 

[smaug]

I can't think of anything Owlcat is particularly good at when it comes to game design but I still find myself playing their games for hours on end so they are doing something right.

For me it’s easy to play and killing monsters, getting loot, exploring etc

For people who want a focused game experience that specializes in a certain aspect, owlcat is trash in that regard.

 

[ArchAngel]

I just got Regill in my party, he is interesting but build is terrible. Too much Dex, terrible feats, focus on exotic weapon.. wtf

Not it's not. He's an excellent Hooked Hammer dual wielder that fucks demons all day long.

They gave him 18 dex which is not needed, fighters cannot turn Dex into damage and they gave him Fighter Finess when he already has weapon focus and weapon spec into specific weapon, total waste of feats. And no Dodge or Heavy Armor Focus.. how is he supposed to tank?! His DPS will always be worse than both Woljif or Wenduag and he is not a good tank either..

You’re going to laugh at yourself when you discover how wrong this is. Granted a good bit of that is due to his bugged weapon but with Leading Strike you end up with the same effect. As for waste of DEX have you ever heard of armor Training? Reduce Person?

Too many people been playing Armorless and don’t understand how the armor mechanics work.

I know armor training, I can get more Dex with equipment but I can save 2 feats at least if I just lower base Dex by 2 and give him more Strength. Then I can do Enlarge Person and later even more powerful spell for even more damage. Small form and going dex is only good if you plan to max out AC or if you are a rogue and turn Dex into damage.

 

[smaug]

I'm quite surprised how Pink Eye did his 180 turn. From mega Owlcat fanboy to being totally disinterested in Wrathfinder.

He matured to a prestigious RPGcodexer.

Realizing what he wants is focus and not loose and spread out gameplay I think.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Just getting into this game this weekend... crawled out of the Grey Garrison and now getting into the game proper. Load times on my potato are garbage, but it doesn't run too bad once it gets up and going. Been looking forward to this more than I want to admit...

 

[S.H.O.D.A.N.]

Except there is nothing remotely intellectually challenging about "Find the one weak spot and pray to the RNG".

Any mental process can be reduced to an absurdity.

And yes, the game has RNG. It's an RPG, those tend to have dice rolls. Minimizing the impact of randomness is one of the basic methods of gitting gud.

 

[Desiderius]

I just got Regill in my party, he is interesting but build is terrible. Too much Dex, terrible feats, focus on exotic weapon.. wtf
I might need to respec him.

Please just try to make him work one playthrough before doing this. Some of it is dependent on equipment yes but the whole thing does come together beautifully. Do what you need to to Fight Reduced without being encumbered (and make sure to keep Crusader’s Edge up) and you’ll be very happy.

 

[Sheepherder]

Neat, a Greater Vital Strike with the mythic feat can deal four digit damage on crit. But is that much damage actually needed for anything, even at endgame?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Realizing what he wants is focus and not loose and spread out gameplay I think.

To me it just sounds like he's being contrarian for the sake of it since Wrathfinder is an improvement over Kingmaker from a buildcrafting perspective.

 

[Pink Eye]

I'm quite surprised how Pink Eye did his 180 turn. From mega Owlcat fanboy to being totally disinterested in Wrathfinder.

I've been pretty consistent. When I started playing beta I said the gameplay sucked. I didn't do those surveys that they'd send out just for fun. Also, someone asked what my opinion was. Of course I'll take that as an opportunity to express myself.

 

[Parabalus]

Clearly I am not the only person who has noticed the overtuned encounters, they happen even on Standard.

Well, that's the point.

"Overrrtooonndd enkowenteerzz" happen on Standard. On Core and higher people are cursing Owlcat or happily Desideriusing along. And then the first kind either drops the game or slowly transforms to the second.

This is brilliant design in my book. A complex CRPG should not be palyable without brain even on the easiest difficulty. And such games are one of the few ways to reveal functionally illiterate "westoid" (TM) morons.

Except there is nothing remotely intellectually challenging about "Find the one weak spot and pray to the RNG".

Which encounters are those?

Every boss encounter. The tactics from Kingmaker still apply, except they don't work as well now solely due to even more inflated stats on enemies. You still spam CC from outside their LoS and hope they fail their saves.

Just buff your martials and whack em to death, much easier.

 

[smaug]

Realizing what he wants is focus and not loose and spread out gameplay I think.

To me it just sounds like he's being contrarian for the sake of it since Wrathfinder is an improvement over Kingmaker from a buildcrafting perspective.

He’s not interested in buildfagginess if said buildfagginess isn’t utilized in an interesting way, unlike in KOTC2 where the AI and battles are interesting and tactical which I doubt there are many in wrath.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Except there is nothing remotely intellectually challenging about "Find the one weak spot and pray to the RNG".

Exactly. You have one set of data (a monster card) and another set of data (the list of spells and feats). You need to find something from the second set that matches the first. It is, like, what "expert systems" of 70's were kind of able to do when they tried to make the work of physicians cheaper.

And even this is nigh impossible for most of the Western players. Note that even the Turk rages not about encounters and mechanics, but about his imaginary emasculation by the Owlcat writers.

 

[smaug]

Tips on how to build ember, can I use her as a ray gun with ray spells (ascendant element), or just pure hexer? Her class is confusing me a bit.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Realizing what he wants is focus and not loose and spread out gameplay I think.

To me it just sounds like he's being contrarian for the sake of it since Wrathfinder is an improvement over Kingmaker from a buildcrafting perspective.

He’s not interested in buildfagginess if said buildfagginess isn’t utilized in an interesting way, unlike in KOTC2 where the AI and battles are interesting and tactical which I doubt there are many in wrath.

Perhaps. I just find it fishy how radical of a change in stance he went for. Then again, might be a matter of heartbreak for a fanboy when the sequel doesn't live to his expectations.

 

[Sharpedge]

Spoiler

Somehow this tick swarm infected itself with Bubonic Plague.

 

[Thonius]

Change of meds? Anyhow core gameplay is pretty much the same as in pfk what changed is uh.... This crusader thingy tackled on top of it Wich is... uh... I would rather avoid, I kinda liked pfk kingdom management though it was okayish loop.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Change of meds? Anyhow core gameplay is pretty much the same as in pfk what changed is uh.... This crusader thingy tackled on top of it Wich is... uh... I would rather avoid, I kinda liked pfk kingdom management though it was okayish loop.

I honestly prefer the crusader system over the kingdom management one, although that's no high praise given that both are superfluous and only detract from the RPG experience.

I really wish that devs would stop tackling such gimmicky mechanics just for the sake of it, you either go full hybrid for better or worse (e.g. the Spellforce series as a mix between RTS and RPG) or you stick to RPG mechanics.