Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Pink Eye]

No reason to be unfairly harsh in your judgement of the game due to that

Oh please, this isn't the Owlcat forums, where you can get banned or thread locked. I'm free to speak my mind when a user asks for it.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

No reason to be unfairly harsh in your judgement of the game due to that

Oh please, this isn't the Owlcat forums, where you can get banned or thread locked. I'm free to speak my mind when a user asks for it.

Didn't imply otherwise.

 

[Daidre]

Realizing what he wants is focus and not loose and spread out gameplay I think.

To me it just sounds like he's being contrarian for the sake of it since Wrathfinder is an improvement over Kingmaker from a buildcrafting perspective.

He’s not interested in buildfagginess if said buildfagginess isn’t utilized in an interesting way, unlike in KOTC2 where the AI and battles are interesting and tactical which I doubt there are many in wrath.

Yeah they are so tactical that you literally can't chose your party's positions when combat starts and all your 6-8 characters randomly shuffled in 1-2 rows every time when fight begins. So all enemy melee have direct access access to your wizards.

Wizards who do not know how to cast Mirror Image out of combat because pre-buffing is not tactical.

 

[ArchAngel]

Only if someone can tell me he gets some ability later that turns his Dex into damage...

You could get Mythic Weapon Finesse on even mythic rank ups.

Does that give anything else in addition to dex to damage? Because if not I would waste 2 feats and mythic feat when I can just put more points into strenght...

 

[Pink Eye]

Yeah they are so tactical that you literally can't chose your party's positions when combat starts

This is false. You can configure party formation. See:

Spoiler

It's only in highly specific encounters where formations get shuffled, and that's because enemies spawn on top of you.
>Wizards who do not know how to cast Mirror Image out of combat because pre-buffing is not tactical.
This is false. You can prebuff:

Spoiler

Can cast the spells during combat too, if you so desire.

 

[NJClaw]

What is the problem with power gaming? Is there any reason to play this thing if it isnt to power game the shit out of it? The first motherfucker that comes talking of "roleplaying" on a game that has a furry in it and half the cast talk like californian girls, I will throw a virtual shoe on his head.

There ought to be a middle ground between faggot walking sim roleplaying and hardcore autismo minmaxing. I don't like having dump stats or 1-class-dips into stuff that thematically doesn't make sense, but that is exactly the way you need to play this on Core it seems.

Are we even playing the same game?

Why would you need dump stats and 1-class-dips? I'm playing on Core without any of that and I'm doing fine. The only problematic encounter so far has been the one with the AIDS-ridden smilodons.

Maybe your definition of problematic is different. Clearly I am not the only person who has noticed the overtuned encounters, they happen even on Standard. You beat every fight in the Gray Garrison on your first try? Gargoyles during the Regill quest? You had no issues with those? I don't believe it.

In the Gray Garrison, I had to reload once against the two babau who patrol the corridor because they critted three times in a row, once against the final minotaur because he killed one of my guys and I couldn't be bothered to resurrect him, and once against the room full of monsters with the big table in the middle because I brainfarted and mistargeted a key spell. I also reloaded during another fight because of a bug, so I don't think it counts. I think that three reloads in an entire dungeon are perfectly fine, especially at relatively low levels where a single bad roll can instantly destroy you. Maybe I had a very strong party, but it was far from optimal (Nenio basically was a deadweight).

I don't think I've dealt with the gargoyles during Regill's quest because I just recruited him and I haven't played any further. So, unless you're talking about the gargoyles you fight in the cave where you recruit him, I can't say anything. And, if you're talking about that encounter, I can't possibly understand what's problematic about it. By that point, you have access to Displacement, Haste, and Archon's Aura, those poor guys don't stand a chance. I ended that fight with everyone but Seelah and Sosiel unscathed.

which build and which chapter...

I play with a Paladin MC and bring with me Seelah (Bard), Sosiel (pure Cleric), Ember (pure Witch), Nenio (Wizard/Loremaster), and Woljif (Rogue/Vivisectionist). Before recruiting Sosiel I had Camellia (pure Shaman). I multiclassed Seelah because I didn't want two Paladins in my party, but her stats are almost identical to those of my MC so everything would be identical with her as a pure Paladin and my MC as a Bard. Woljif is a Vivisectionist because I find the Rogue class a bit boring, but it would work even with him as a pure Rogue or Lann as a pure Zen Archer in his place. I'm still on chapter 2 and, apparently, things get worse in later chapters, but if you people are complaining about the Gray Garrison I can't really trust your opinion on the subject.

Call me retarded but I spent over a dozen tries on some of those fights, even knowing what I was about to go into. Used scrolls of stinking cloud and summons during the Jeslyn fight and STILL had to rely on luck to get through.

And no, this isn't my first rodeo. I know exactly how Owlcat design their encounters from Kingmaker.

What the fuck, dude... a dozen tries? I can wholeheartedly assure you that you were probably doing something wrong. What spells and feats were you relying on in that dungeon? With Nenio's Grease and Glitterdust, Camellia's and Ember's Slumber/Protective Luck hexes, and my MC's Cleave/Cleaving Finish, 95% of the encounters were a joke and even the serious ones weren't even remotely "12 retries" hard.

 

[Daidre]

Realizing what he wants is focus and not loose and spread out gameplay I think.

To me it just sounds like he's being contrarian for the sake of it since Wrathfinder is an improvement over Kingmaker from a buildcrafting perspective.

He’s not interested in buildfagginess if said buildfagginess isn’t utilized in an interesting way, unlike in KOTC2 where the AI and battles are interesting and tactical which I doubt there are many in wrath.

Yeah they are so tactical that you literally can't chose your party's positions when combat starts and all your 6-8 characters randomly shuffled in 1-2 rows every time when fight begins. So all enemy melee have direct access access to your wizards.

Wizards who do not know how to cast Mirror Image out of combat because pre-buffing is not tactical.

Didn’t know this was an issue or if it’s an issue, will ask Pink Eye. Still besides the point, wrath isn’t tactical in comparison unless I’m missing something.

Well it is possible some of this shite was fixed since my last attempt to play KotC 2. That ended way too early because Pierre added a prologue village but forgot to properly check the trigger for bandit attack that is necessary to get into ch1.

 

[Mortmal]

Realizing what he wants is focus and not loose and spread out gameplay I think.

To me it just sounds like he's being contrarian for the sake of it since Wrathfinder is an improvement over Kingmaker from a buildcrafting perspective.

He’s not interested in buildfagginess if said buildfagginess isn’t utilized in an interesting way, unlike in KOTC2 where the AI and battles are interesting and tactical which I doubt there are many in wrath.

Yeah they are so tactical that you literally can't chose your party's positions when combat starts and all your 6-8 characters randomly shuffled in 1-2 rows every time when fight begins. So all enemy melee have direct access access to your wizards.

Wizards who do not know how to cast Mirror Image out of combat because pre-buffing is not tactical.

Didn’t know this was an issue or if it’s an issue, will ask Pink Eye. Still besides the point, wrath isn’t tactical in comparison unless I’m missing something.

Well it is possible some of this shite was fixed since my last attempt to play KotC 2. That ended way too early because Pierre added a prologue village but forgot to properly check the trigger for bandit attack that is necessary to get into ch1.

you need to rest in the inn and then speak to the guard commander in the tower to trigger it. It's botched i already asked to add it in the conversation.

 

[Darkwind]

Yeah they are so tactical that you literally can't chose your party's positions when combat starts

This is false. You can configure party formation. See:

Spoiler

It's only in highly specific encounters where formations get shuffled, and that's because enemies spawn on top of you.
>Wizards who do not know how to cast Mirror Image out of combat because pre-buffing is not tactical.
This is false. You can prebuff:

Spoiler

Can cast the spells during combat too, if you so desire.

Rather unfortunate however that the game is utter dogshit in nearly every other way. The obsession with this game would be puzzling to me on the Codex if I didn't realize that so many of you are older than Joe Biden. It is basically a browser based token driven game. Roll20 without the fun of multiplayer and the virtual tabletop experience that goes along with it. The perfect game for a 75 year old neckbeard grognard basically. Jagged Alliance 2 is the best game ever made too according to the old guy here (Lilura?) that LARPs as a female... *shrug*

 

[Heroic Liberator]

The obsession with this game would be puzzling to me on the Codex if I didn't realize that so many of you are older than Joe Biden.

Or hipsters.

 

[Pink Eye]

>Pierre added a prologue village but forgot to properly check the trigger for bandit attack that is necessary to get into ch1.
He fixed it in of his many update logs. I didn't remember which one. You'll have to look at it:
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...halice-2-revolutionise-old-school-crpgs/posts

 

[TheEntitledOne]

Is it me or are there toons of invisible enemies that you can't detect with See Invisibility? or are they just teleporting (Drezen)?

 

[Pink Eye]

Rather unfortunate however that the game is utter dogshit in nearly every other way. The obsession with this game would be puzzling to me on the Codex if I didn't realize that so many of you are older than Joe Biden. It is basically a browser based token driven game. Roll20 without the fun of multiplayer and the virtual tabletop experience that goes along with it.

K'. That is a very lousy opinion to have.

 

[smaug]

Yeah they are so tactical that you literally can't chose your party's positions when combat starts

This is false. You can configure party formation. See:

Spoiler

It's only in highly specific encounters where formations get shuffled, and that's because enemies spawn on top of you.
>Wizards who do not know how to cast Mirror Image out of combat because pre-buffing is not tactical.
This is false. You can prebuff:

Spoiler

Can cast the spells during combat too, if you so desire.

Rather unfortunate however that the game is utter dogshit in nearly every other way. The obsession with this game would be puzzling to me on the Codex if I didn't realize that so many of you are older than Joe Biden. It is basically a browser based token driven game. Roll20 without the fun of multiplayer and the virtual tabletop experience that goes along with it. The perfect game for a 75 year old neckbeard grognard basically. Jagged Alliance 2 is the best game ever made too according to the old guy here (Lilura?) that LARPs as a female... *shrug*

I thought everyone on here was a 75 year old grognard who loves those types of games ?

 

[LannTheStupid]

There has to be a better way of organizing the abilities. I have combat maneuvers, passives, spells, and other stuff all jumbled up in there.
I want psionics, I press x - you get the idea. There's a dedicated UI for each thing. Where else in Wrath of the Righteous, it's all thrown in one place. Forcing me to search through each thing. Then put it on the hotbar. Then hope I remember it later.

They are "jumblled up", because a player is supposed to look at them, decide what is important for any particular character, then drag and drop them on the hotbar and / or on the action bar on the right. And then all the shortcuts for this particular actions are available. And even better: if the most freauently used actions for every character are assigned to the same slots on the panels, then the same keyboard shortcut uses this most frequently used option for every character whatever character it is.

I very much prefer this approach to something that was prepared for me by a UI designer. Usually, they do not understand what I want. So cudos to Owlcat Games to not even trying.

I cannot comment the rest, because it looks like the matter of tastes to me. Sorry if I'm wrong.

 

[LannTheStupid]

I constantly compared Wrath to Chalice 2.

Unfortunately, for this I have only one argument: KotC-2 is so visually old and ugly that I am afraid I would find a conscription notice in my mailbox if I play it long enough. Call it a psychological trauma.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

I am afraid I would find a conscription notice in my mailbox if I play it long enough. Call it a psychological trauma.

It's over, bro.

 

[Pink Eye]

Lann. I like ya. I really do. But:

They are "jumblled up", because a player is supposed to look at them, decide what is important for any particular character, then drag and drop them on the hotbar and / or on the action bar on the right. And then all the shortcuts for this particular actions are available. And even batter: if the most freauently used actions for every character are assigned to the same slots on the panels, then the same keyboard shortcut uses this most frequently used option for every character whatever character it is.

You're excusing bad UI design. Speaking of which. This gives me an opportunity to revisit Chalice 2 yet again. Pierre implemented a quickbar feature:

Spoiler

 

[LannTheStupid]

You're excusing bad UI design.

Probably, I am. Then again: the best UI for me is the bash prompt. So either make me Metro Exodus with full ray tracing, or Wrath - or go ADOM or Dwarf Fortress. The graphics of KotC-2 is that horrible uncanny valley.

 

[Pink Eye]

Never change Lann. Your dedication to this forum persona impresses me.

 

[frajaq]

Bringing Ember to talk to Nocticula is 10/10 content, well done Owlcat

 

[Lambach]

LoL,had lost more money you will see in your life

Well yeah, that tends to happen when you're too drunk to stand up straight for like 20 hours a day on any day of the week that ends in "day".

 

[AwesomeButton]

I play with a Paladin MC and bring with me Seelah (Bard), Sosiel (pure Cleric), Ember (pure Witch), Nenio (Wizard/Loremaster), and Woljif (Rogue/Vivisectionist). Before recruiting Sosiel I had Camellia (pure Shaman). I multiclassed Seelah because I didn't want two Paladins in my party, but her stats are almost identical to those of my MC so everything would be identical with her as a pure Paladin and my MC as a Bard. Woljif is a Vivisectionist because I find the Rogue class a bit boring, but it would work even with him as a pure Rogue or Lann as a pure Zen Archer in his place. I'm still on chapter 2 and, apparently, things get worse in later chapters, but if you people are complaining about the Gray Garrison I can't really trust your opinion on the subject.

You make me consider rerolling the game. My party is apparently not adjusted to Core difficulty well enough.

 

[Daidre]

Well, I have spent half of the summer playing MM Merge (Might and Magic 6+7+8). All of them are unbelievably ugly by modern standards and got paper-thin plot. But those games are still whole worlds filled by quests, cities and dungeons so cool that you never care about a looks.

But KoTC 2 never even feels like a game. It is just... ugly 2D picture with tokens on it. And going from one combat to another with random textbox in between never feels like an actual adventure - because more often then not all your options is like 1-2 combat set pieces to fight and nothing else.

Shame, because original KoTC had all the nice things like a world map, cities, taverns where you can rest, shops where you can buy fucking arrows and almost dozen of different dungeons.

 

[Israfael]

To me, it's just ages old debate between sandboxy approach (which is in this case is Kangmaker/Wrath) and the gamified approach (whatever the Sensuki 2.0 is playing / praising) - you can have tighter experience at the cost of variety and choice (compare, for example, DOS2 against any classic / bugmaker game). To each his/her/xer own, I guess... There's surprisingly many people who liked when Firaxis dumbed down the X-com franchise and turned it from a shoddy simulator into more fast-paced move+attack board game with no AI at all (which maybe 1% realises). More choices and actions => more dumb your AI would likely to be as it can't compare to a human if a big variety of choice is present.