Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Desiderius]

Spoiler

https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691157658/three-critics-of-the-enlightenment

 

[Jorus]

Finished my Demon playthrough and achieved the

Spoiler

Ascension ending

Overall I had more fun with Demon than I did with the Lich path which is a shame since I was more hyped for the Lich path.

 

[Jackpot]

Wow, the zap attack that dropped in Blackwater actually got a thumbnail and description.

Now if there isn't some secret quest to upgrade them into a superpowerful weapon that I can wield later on I'm going to be disappointed.

 

[Lamiosa]

Finished my Demon playthrough and achieved the

Spoiler

Ascension ending

Overall I had more fun with Demon than I did with the Lich path which is a shame since I was more hyped for the Lich path.

Yeah I'm having a blast too, this shit never gets old:

Spoiler

I think I could get a higher DC if I made some different choices during the mythic quest, but it doesn't matter at this point, game difficulty took a dive after the insane late game power of demon path

Although I found the reactivity a bit low in chapter 5, I'm not sure even if there are crusaders following me anymore lol
I will probably go lawful good next time, got hyped by the dragon lady from the new total war trailer. It looks like Eldritch Scion can get dragonkind III now? Bloodrager could work too but you only get dragonform on level 16.

 

[Saark]

For those of you that finished the Demon Path, how developed is the Cunning sub-path of it? Is it still mostly "rage at everything" or have they added some decent choices that fall into a deceitful/cunning style?

 

[Lamiosa]

For those of you that finished the Demon Path, how developed is the Cunning sub-path of it? Is it still mostly "rage at everything" or have they added some decent choices that fall into a deceitful/cunning style?

Hm, you can often supress your rage, but that's it, there is not an alternative thing for you to do exactly. There is a bit of cunning with the option of you convincing some demons to help you / betraying others during your mythic quest in chapter 5, similar to the arena quest line, but that's it. Although I still have to play chapter 6.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

You're missing the point. Who would ever give them anything? In order to be a beggar they need a bunch of charitable and gullible people who will give them money for free. Save for a couple of people the entire population is made of creatures for are embodiment of not being very charitable or kind to anyone. Why is ever gonna give them anything? The population of creatures that are at least neutral is too small to sustain them. Can you imagine a Succubus throwing some coins to a poor starving shitmob? Also they're not that worthless, some of the beggars are these fat little demons that throw poison fog in the HoMM battles.

Theyre powerless creatures (oftentimes due to having their powers stripped from them) in a city that has visitors from all kinds of planes, most if not all of which end up in the lower city first. There's plenty of other outsiders, including non-evil ones, that are more than willing to be "kind" whether it is for personal benefit, or because their nature dictates them to be that way. There were beggars in Sigil, and there's no reason for there to not be any in this city either. It's not just demons, its all kinds of folk visiting and some of the beggars might very well be simply disgusing themselves to look for weak-willed travellers or other demons.

Sigil was more or less neutral and the city included visitors from everywhere, since this was the main gimmick. That included creatures from higher planes that are charitable by nature. But majority of the population are normal people. Here the only normal people in the lower city area bunch of guests at the tavern. A tavern where demons try to rob you every night. Everyone else is a chaotic evil creature. Majority of visitors would probably also be of evil alignment, since there aren't exactly many attractions for good good-hearted folks. Hand of Inheritor had to conceal himself there which implies that creatures from higher planes aren't exactly welcome in town. And even if a good adventurer ever came to visit why would he ever donate to a creature which is an embodiment of pure evil? It just makes no sense. And also, why would they ever try to look weaker? Isn't killing and/or torturing everyone weaker than you for fun and profit the whole point of chaotic evil alignment? Beggar demons are just inviting everyone to shit down their throat.
Notice how there aren't any beggars in Drow cities in RPGs. And Drows are just creatures who happen to be cruel and treacherous, not creatures which are defined by being evil.

There's the problem then, that's how you get "worthless" demons. Can't even use em as cannonfodder.

But they can, the entire first act is about killing cannon-fodder demons. They could just send these against the crusade. They aren't some uber-weak NPC-only demons. The beggars are either enemies you've been fighting early games or some random tieflings.

 

[Fedora Master]

Raises the question whether giving alms to a demon is a good act or not, heh

 

[Saark]

Hm, you can often supress your rage, but that's it, there is not an alternative thing for you to do exactly. There is a bit of cunning with the option of you convincing some demons to help you / betraying others during your mythic quest in chapter 5, similar to the arena quest line, but that's it. Although I still have to play chapter 6.

That's a bit sad to hear, considering Nocticula is a perfect example of a scheming/cunning type of demon succeeding over all the more brutish and forceful types. Most Mythic Paths have minor variations within them, i.e. Angel can often choose between Mercy or Vengeance/Retribution, Aeon has 3 different alignments, one of them directly leading to the Devil Path during Late game, and Azata also has a few different ones. The expectation, and I think plan, for Demon was to also have these 2 sub-paths, but the Cunning one seems woefully underdeveloped. Unfortunate.

From what I could tell so far, Demon is either to rage, or not to rage, with the latter leading to you having to be obedient and accept that your adversary is more powerful than you are. Having these subservient acts be actual schemes or cunning ploys that would later benefit you, would be far more interesting, but so far it didn't feel like that at all.

 

[The_Mask]

It would make sense that the Mythic paths at the corners (LG, CG, LE and CE) to have only binary attitudes, meanwhile all the rest would have 3.

And I assume the most complex ought to be which ever one fits TN. (Which one would that be, by the way? Swarm?)

 

[Saark]

Isn't killing and/or torturing everyone weaker than you for fun and profit the whole point of chaotic evil alignment?

I think this is where we disagree. Chaotic Evil can be many things, and the most obvious one would be the torturing bloodthirsty abomination that most demons seem to be. But there are other types, and we've seen a lot of them in action during the first few chapters, that disguise acts of charity or even kindness as it furthers their own goals long-term. Minagho seemed to "care" (as far as the word is applicable for a demon) for Staunton to the degree that he received something even the crusaders couldn't give him, but it wasn't for his benefit, not as a first priority anyway. It served her goals to show him "compassion" or at least pretend to do so, while knowing how much torment it caused both him and the people he knew. Evil, yes, but it doesn't change the fact that it made him feel better than he ever did the last 70+ years.

I'm sure there's plenty of demons that would happily give something to a Beggar just to watch him die because the food was poisoned, or to get certain favors in return. They might also simply be disguise

 

[Denim Destroyer]

I'm at the end of Act 3 waiting for the Queen to arrive but I got to find a way to spend 30 days (turned off crusade mode) and all I have to do quest wise is Blackwater. It is tempting to try it again but I am afraid of having to buy some ointment because of how ass blasted I will get.

 

[smaug]

I'm at the end of Act 3 waiting for the Queen to arrive but I got to find a way to spend 30 days (turned off crusade mode) and all I have to do quest wise is Blackwater. It is tempting to try it again but I am afraid of having to buy some ointment because of how ass blasted I will get.

You put crusade system on auto? Why?

 

[gurugeorge]

Bye bye Bolster OP-ness, it was fun knowin' ye.

 

[CodexTotalWar]

I'm replaying parts of Act 4 now that the respeccing bug has been identified. Now not only am I stuck playing a character that's missing a feat (weird bug that caused me to respec in the first place), it looks like a quest that was previously perfectly fine in Act 4 is now broken (Grudge to Settle, a certain enemy doesn't spawn anymore).

Might just take a break and come back in a month or two at this point... I've enjoyed the game, but I'm honestly not too sure if the last acts here will be stable enough to finish in an enjoyable manner.

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Minor Aru spoiler

 

[Denim Destroyer]

I'm at the end of Act 3 waiting for the Queen to arrive but I got to find a way to spend 30 days (turned off crusade mode) and all I have to do quest wise is Blackwater. It is tempting to try it again but I am afraid of having to buy some ointment because of how ass blasted I will get.

You put crusade system on auto? Why?

I did not care for it and I only found out how much content I am missing out on until after disabling crusade mode. Wish I just downloaded one of those cheat mods to make it go by faster but oh well.

 

[purupuru]

Man, if they have to make romance in rpgs at least make the candidates each have their very specific standards and preferences, like in Arcanum.
Having Daeran give my 8 CHA old Dwarf a full room of rose petals feels super weird. If I wanted to play a gay character I'd have rolled an elf.

Maybe when he offered to join your party you should have told him go away like I did and you would not have this problem with your dwarf.

I like him though, he is some of the more entertaining companions. Also this PC is a Cayden Cailean follower and Trickster so Daeran is a better fit than most.
I think one of the biggest problems with romance in rpgs is exactly what you are saying here: the player is often forced into a place where he have to either fuck the companion or tell the companion to fuck off, when a normal friendship would have been a lot less awkward and probably better written.

 

[smaug]

I'm at the end of Act 3 waiting for the Queen to arrive but I got to find a way to spend 30 days (turned off crusade mode) and all I have to do quest wise is Blackwater. It is tempting to try it again but I am afraid of having to buy some ointment because of how ass blasted I will get.

You put crusade system on auto? Why?

I did not care for it and I only found out how much content I am missing out on until after disabling crusade mode. Wish I just downloaded one of those cheat mods to make it go by faster but oh well.

Yea, download the combat mod or whatever it’s called, I have it and you can still use all the content.

 

[Desiderius]

Minor Aru spoiler

 

[Desiderius]

I'm at the end of Act 3 waiting for the Queen to arrive but I got to find a way to spend 30 days (turned off crusade mode) and all I have to do quest wise is Blackwater. It is tempting to try it again but I am afraid of having to buy some ointment because of how ass blasted I will get.

You put crusade system on auto? Why?

I did not care for it and I only found out how much content I am missing out on until after disabling crusade mode. Wish I just downloaded one of those cheat mods to make it go by faster but oh well.

How can you not care for it before you even understand how to play it?

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Isn't killing and/or torturing everyone weaker than you for fun and profit the whole point of chaotic evil alignment?

I think this is where we disagree. Chaotic Evil can be many things, and the most obvious one would be the torturing bloodthirsty abomination that most demons seem to be. But there are other types, and we've seen a lot of them in action during the first few chapters, that disguise acts of charity or even kindness as it furthers their own goals long-term. Minagho seemed to "care" (as far as the word is applicable for a demon) for Staunton to the degree that he received something even the crusaders couldn't give him, but it wasn't for his benefit, not as a first priority anyway. It served her goals to show him "compassion" or at least pretend to do so, while knowing how much torment it caused both him and the people he knew. Evil, yes, but it doesn't change the fact that it made him feel better than he ever did the last 70+ years.

Staunton was useful, what would be the point of running such ridiculous scheme with demons who are too worthless to even become slaves?

I'm sure there's plenty of demons that would happily give something to a Beggar just to watch him die because the food was poisoned, or to get certain favors in return. They might also simply be disguise

If being a beggar led you to dying after receiving poisoned food there would be no beggars either. There is nothing in the game to suggest that the beggars are just disguised gang member, they are actual demons begging on the streets.

 

[Desiderius]

Man, if they have to make romance in rpgs at least make the candidates each have their very specific standards and preferences, like in Arcanum.
Having Daeran give my 8 CHA old Dwarf a full room of rose petals feels super weird. If I wanted to play a gay character I'd have rolled an elf.

Maybe when he offered to join your party you should have told him go away like I did and you would not have this problem with your dwarf.

I like him though, he is some of the more entertaining companions. Also this PC is a Cayden Cailean follower and Trickster so Daeran is a better fit than most.
I think one of the biggest problems with romance in rpgs is exactly what you are saying here: the player is often forced into a place where he have to either fuck the companion or tell the companion to fuck off, when a normal friendship would have been a lot less awkward and probably better written.

IIRC you can go that way with him too. I don’t do the buttsecks so we’re usually just buds.

 

[Saark]

Staunton was useful, what would be the point of running such ridiculous scheme with demons who are too worthless to even become slaves?

I don't disagree with the notion that the amount of beggars you see in the Lower City is in any way realistic (we're talking about fantatsy, after all), I simply don't agree with the fact that there wouldn't be demons subservient enough to beg other Demons for food, shelter, protection or other things. If anything, Demons would probably be less shameful about it, to the point where they get their face smashed in because theyre being too obnoxious.

Beggars can be useful tools in any society, even a Demon one, as they can provide information, can be used as spies, assassins or simply be kept as pets or playthings. Demons love power, and when you're a shitty powerless grunt, the only thing making you feel powerful is being able to shit on the ones that are even further down on the food chain. I don't see why this wouldn't apply to demons. Befriend enough of them, team up, and you can overcome more powerful adversaries together. Then you kill them all to keep the spoils and powergains for yourself.

 

[Ontopoly]

Romances are always bad and they just bring weird people into the fan base. You put one romance into your game and your community is suddenly just a place for people to post fan art