Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Shadenuat]

But how bloated a game is to 35 AC being considered "low"... An old golden dragon has 33 AC .

Your level 1 Seelah would hit an evil dragon with such AC 50% of the time at least by drinking a bunch of potions and flanking. And all of that would be legit tools no munchkinism.

PnP monsters are underpowered.

 

[Haplo]

But if you loose a turn due to a charge attempt went wrong, you've usually lost it.

Is it good tactics to alpha strike encounters and then reload if it fails? Kind of reminds me of trying to apply blindness through reloads until the save is beaten.

Charge is not only for alpha striking, you know. Actually alpha strikes work pretty well now - in combat charges often fail.

The movement bug I was referring to has nothing to do with charges. I think it was related to being mounted - Sometimes the mount just fails to move through the tiniest obstacle, gets stuck, stutters for a few seconds and then ends your turn. I also had issues doing a full attack or even a single attack at times despite being right next to an enemy and repositioning with 5 foot step.

That's when you should test your Reflexes and switch to real time when the mount still stutters. Usually the pathfinding is a bit better in real time. Or your allies scramble to make way. So you can often succeed with the attacks in real time. Can switch back after the attack.

 

[Cryomancer]

But how bloated a game is to 35 AC being considered "low"... An old golden dragon has 33 AC .

Your level 1 Seelah would hit an evil dragon with such AC 50% of the time at least by drinking a bunch of potions and flanking. And all of that would be legit tools no munchkinism.

PnP monsters are underpowered.

Nope. A dragon would just fly and breath attack her at range while she can't do anything. Monsters needs to be smart.

 

[Shadenuat]

Nope. A dragon would just fly and breath attack her at range while she can't do anything. Monsters needs to be smart.

No strawmaning please. You argued about bloated AC.

And even against flying dragon - there is a ranged pala kit.

PnP monsters are weak. They are weak not even for CRPG, but even in PnP. PnP designers are not geniuses, and PnP is not a holy grail of balance, there are same mistakes there as anywhere.

 

[Haplo]

I would implement a buffbot in the game and program the AI to attempt to dispel buffs from PCs.

Any rtwp game will benefit from a gambit-like system from ff12

No need to bring jrpgs into this. Deadfire has very decent AI scripts also.

 

[Tacgnol]

PnP monsters are weak. They are weak not even for CRPG, but even in PnP. PnP designers are not geniuses, and PnP is not a holy grail of balance, there are same mistakes there as anywhere.

It doesn't matter if they're "weak" (which is debatable anyway as most PnP characters aren't anywhere near as bloated/strong as PF CRPG characters), they're controlled by a human.

A DM controlling a monster is going to be far more effective than any AI script.

 

[Cryomancer]

And even against flying dragon - there is a ranged pala kit.

PnP monsters are weak. They are weak not even for CRPG, but even in PnP.

I disagree. When I played 3E, my first party wipe was at lv 13. We are investigating disappearances in a swamp, failed some checks and suddenly, a black dragon emerged, eat your druid and his minions surrounded our party. He appeared with a lot of buffs obviously. Was his lair and we was caught by surprise. I tried improved invisibility, but he had true seeing. And I rolled low for intiiative. We had a party wipe in two turns.

It doesn't matter if they're "weak" (which is debatable anyway as most PnP characters aren't anywhere near as bloated/strong as PF CRPG characters), they're controlled by a human.

A DM controlling a monster is going to be far more effective than any AI script.

Depends a lot on the monster. If I'm DMing as a skeleton, I will mindless attack. If I'm DMing as a lich, I will be cautious, paranoiac and smart as possible.

 

[Tacgnol]

Depends a lot on the monster. If I'm DMing as a skeleton, I will mindless attack. If I'm DMing as a lich, I will be cautious, paranoiac and smart as possible.

That's true and a valid point, but the example was a dragon.

A DM should be controlling a dragon ruthlessly and intelligently.

 

[Volourn]

Good DMs don't hand out ph@t lewt like candy either. No level 1 party is gonna kill an old gold dragon. An old gold dragon, FFS, would just come in humanoid form with a bunch of buff spells and slaughter the whole party with some old sword. LMAO Or just use Holy Word or cast an old fashion sleep spell. :D and then tease the elf party member as every one else is snoring. <>

 

[Shadenuat]

A DM controlling a monster is going to be far more effective than any AI script.

A DM also faces a group of other nerds, each of them can be same 20 years experienced in RPGs as him. It's easier to out-think a single person, unless they're a degenerate and fudge rolls.

Furthermore, DM doesn't actually want to actively kill you, unless he's a Russian. Combat isn't even the driving force of the game anyway. Even more - designers, through years, tried to actively put into RPG system mechanics that would allow players to avoid party wipes, sudden deaths, etc.

PnP is designed for party to more or less effectively wipe monsters one after another, even if they don't understand much what they are doing, and continue playing without losing their precious characters.

 

[Fedora Master]

But if you loose a turn due to a charge attempt went wrong, you've usually lost it.

Is it good tactics to alpha strike encounters and then reload if it fails? Kind of reminds me of trying to apply blindness through reloads until the save is beaten.

Charge is not only for alpha striking, you know. Actually alpha strikes work pretty well now - in combat charges often fail.

The movement bug I was referring to has nothing to do with charges. I think it was related to being mounted - Sometimes the mount just fails to move through the tiniest obstacle, gets stuck, stutters for a few seconds and then ends your turn. I also had issues doing a full attack or even a single attack at times despite being right next to an enemy and repositioning with 5 foot step.

That's when you should test your Reflexes and switch to real time when the mount still stutters. Usually the pathfinding is a bit better in real time. Or your allies scramble to make way. So you can often succeed with the attacks in real time. Can switch back after the attack.

I shouldn't have to do anything when the game is broken.

 

[Tacgnol]

But if you loose a turn due to a charge attempt went wrong, you've usually lost it.

Is it good tactics to alpha strike encounters and then reload if it fails? Kind of reminds me of trying to apply blindness through reloads until the save is beaten.

Charge is not only for alpha striking, you know. Actually alpha strikes work pretty well now - in combat charges often fail.

The movement bug I was referring to has nothing to do with charges. I think it was related to being mounted - Sometimes the mount just fails to move through the tiniest obstacle, gets stuck, stutters for a few seconds and then ends your turn. I also had issues doing a full attack or even a single attack at times despite being right next to an enemy and repositioning with 5 foot step.

That's when you should test your Reflexes and switch to real time when the mount still stutters. Usually the pathfinding is a bit better in real time. Or your allies scramble to make way. So you can often succeed with the attacks in real time. Can switch back after the attack.

I shouldn't have to do anything when the game is broken.

I like Wrath overall, but Fedora is correct.

Considering these issues (combat pathfinding) have lingered in KM for a long time, Owlcat should really have got a handle on them by now.

 

[Cryomancer]

PnP is designed for party to more or less effectively wipe monsters one after another, even if they don't understand much what they are doing, and continue playing without losing their precious characters.

Depends on P&P. Lets go play Dark Sun in 2E. Shadow Wizards(kit from preservers & defilers - The wizards of athas), could die while attempting to contact the "black" to attune energy to prepare spells. And was not unlikely. He needs to pass a check each time that he gather energy for each spell and if he fails, he takes d6+1 damage while having d4 hit points. At full health, at lv 7, he can fail a couple of times, but still gonna hurt him. Dark Sun even recommend creating multiple characters because they will gonna die.

Anyway, this game has so much bloat in ch 5/6 that I wish that the next OwlCat game will gonna be a adaptation of a retroclone with lv cap = 12 like hyperborea. One of things which makes 2E better is the smaller numbers.

 

[Shadenuat]

I am always up for killing some kobolds with my +1 dagger.

 

[Cryomancer]

I am always up for killing some kobolds with my +1 dagger.

LOL. Lv 12 is far from Dungeons & Kobolds. Is just not lv 20/10 mythic.

Kingmaker chapter 2/3/4 aren't low level D&D and are quite good.

 

[ArchAngel]

I am loving that Drezen is so much bigger than our Capital in first game. This actually feels like a real place.

 

[Fedora Master]

I am loving that Drezen is so much bigger than our Capital in first game. This actually feels like a real place.

Remember to get Expeditious Retreat from somewhere though.

 

[Reinhardt]

If I'm DMing as a lich, I will be cautious, paranoiac and smart as possible.

which is not very smart

 

[Daedalos]

Finally found a gamebreaking bug.. fuck u owlcatto

In midnight fane, I cannot turn in the last key from the succubi bitch.. it just gives me no options..

GGGGGGGGGG

game broke, 0/10

 

[Cryomancer]

which is not very smart

Wrong. I can solo BG2:EE on Legacy of Bhaal difficulty, only 0,4% of players manage to do that with full party. When I DMed 3E, I almost killed the party in one round and would have killed if they din't had fleed the encounter. And was a CR appropriated encounter.

 

[Reinhardt]

which is not very smart

Wrong. I can solo BG2:EE on Legacy of Bhaal difficulty, only 0,4% of players manage to do that with full party

Nigga, it has nothing with "smart"...

 

[Haplo]

But if you loose a turn due to a charge attempt went wrong, you've usually lost it.

Is it good tactics to alpha strike encounters and then reload if it fails? Kind of reminds me of trying to apply blindness through reloads until the save is beaten.

Charge is not only for alpha striking, you know. Actually alpha strikes work pretty well now - in combat charges often fail.

The movement bug I was referring to has nothing to do with charges. I think it was related to being mounted - Sometimes the mount just fails to move through the tiniest obstacle, gets stuck, stutters for a few seconds and then ends your turn. I also had issues doing a full attack or even a single attack at times despite being right next to an enemy and repositioning with 5 foot step.

That's when you should test your Reflexes and switch to real time when the mount still stutters. Usually the pathfinding is a bit better in real time. Or your allies scramble to make way. So you can often succeed with the attacks in real time. Can switch back after the attack.

I shouldn't have to do anything when the game is broken.

I agree. I'm just presenting a temporary dirty workaround for that specific issue.

 

[ga♥]

BG2 is actually easier solo.

 

[Reinhardt]

My only hope right now is the second dlc where you play poorfag survivors in Kenabres. Because i already see dlc 1 will be unredeamable shit trying to outepic even epic shit from main campaign. And dlc 3 is even worse - random dungeon in abyss. As if game has not enough random encounters in abyss at this point.

 

[ga♥]

killing or letting live

Spoiler

Soana in Wintersun

has any effects down the road?