Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Sharpedge]

In act 4 now, and the 'optional' bosses are starting to get pretty absurd

Spoiler

5+ attacks per turn, with enough attack bonus to guarantee hits against my ~35 AC dudes and dealing 30-50 damage per hit. How are you supposed to last even a single round next to something like that? So far I'm just resorting to skeleton summoning spam while peppering them with magic (lack of uncanny dodge is their one true weakness)

Most of then lasts many minutes. Is a problem? Yes. But is not as seriously as people portrait.

Spending 5 minutes buffing when entering every map and after every rest is pretty tedious. There's no real decision making either, you'll almost always slap down the same buffs.

People farther in the game than me correct me, but I think ~AC 35 is low on act 4. Also 5 attacks per turn was something I've seen even in act 2.

It might very well be, but barring insane minmaxing with mercs, I'm not sure how to get it much higher. Take these:

Now clearly this is not fully buffed (but also there aren't that many more buffs that give ac afaik, especially that stack with what I have), and it's not (ab)using things like monk bonus and neither have I spent every feat on AC, but this is still what I would consider a decent AC investment.
Both of these characters went from full hp to 0 in a single full attack from the enemy. After I had dispelled haste and one or two other buffs from it. That seems way too powerful to me, and makes me consider booting both of them so I can fit more (skeleton) summoners in my party. Admittedly checking stats on reload, the enemies attack was exactly +35 attacks so another 5 or 10 points would have a huge impact. But the enemy also has 50 AC, and it would be nice to not have hits only on a natural 20.

Otherwise please give tips on how to increase their AC. I know both have kinda bad enchantment bonus, but I haven't found any better full plate.

Off the top of my head, Magical Vestment: Armour. Then for Seelah Magical Vestment: Shield. The spell Shield of Faith will increase the AC above the +2 from the ring of deflection at this point, simply because of the levels on it. You could also use Fight Defensively if you wished to. There are a ton of ways you can increase your AC much higher than that at the point you are at, without much investment. There are also some short duration buffs like haste and things like displacement as well which will increase the durability of your group.

Not that any of this helps anyhow, since I suspect the enemy you are struggling with is Playful Darkness? Hes not intended to be tanked and is a puzzle fight akin to Kangaxx in BG 2. Hes meant to be dealt with using other measures. The fun of the fight is in figuring him out, having him explained to you kills all the fun.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

My only hope right now is the second dlc where you play poorfag survivors in Kenabres. Because i already see dlc 1 will be unredeamable shit trying to outepic even epic shit from main campaign. And dlc 3 is even worse - random dungeon in abyss. As if game has not enough random encounters in abyss at this point.

My hope is a DLC with full party creation and no NPCs. There's ton of different classes in the game and you will only experience fraction of them.

 

[ArchAngel]

WTF is with battles vs Ghouls. Enemy has 3 stacks of Ghouls and they permanently paralyze all your units and you never get a turn again... how did this shit pass any testing?!

 

[Cryomancer]

WTF is with battles vs Ghouls. Enemy has 3 stacks of Ghouls and they permanently paralyze all your units and you never get a turn again... how did this shit pass any testing?!

Testing? Does OwlCat test their games?

As for crusade, if you are not spamming fireball, ice storm or scorching ray, you are playing crusade wrong.

 

[LannTheStupid]

When are they going to patch in a fucking stats screen???

Go for it.

https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/103

Find the author, ask for the sources, port the mod to Wrath, release on Nexus, be ready to support the mod through all the patches.

What, too difficult? And why Owlcat Games should do that, pray tell? As I understand, they were never intended to add this feature, and I would definitely prefer them to do what is planned instead of what can be modded.

 

[PrK]

That's another different can of worm entirely. Since they are overstatted and their HD increased, had they access to such HD based abilities your life would be really unfair. Instead, they rely on off the chart SR to protect themselves from your abundant casting and favoured metamagic. Basically, since there's no AI competent enough to play D&D, we play who gets to roll bigger numbers.
It's not exactly fun but I don't think it's something that Owlcat can singlehandedly solve. AI in gaming is a pretty sore topic, for those that noticed...

Pierre singlehandedly solved this though, 3E specific no less, so I don't think the resources needed excuse works for Owlcat. The actual reason may well be that it would be quite harder with the RTwP simultaneous turn logic.
Just imagine though how great the Pathfinder games would be if the enemy actually silenced your casters, bull rushed you into pits, burned your web with burning hands, etc. Then the enemies wouldn't need to be overstatted and a good composition alone would be danger enough.

Are we talking about the same man who pits half-naked level 5 (at best) party against skeletal dragon, spawns enemies behind you in every second fight, heaps a ton of "free action" abilities on all notable enemies, has each hostile caster prebuffed with all with all spells they theoretically have access to without any care in the world for the spellslot count, forbids you to prebuff party with even simplest shit like Protection vs Elements at the same time... and... and...

...Homebrewed ridiculous Prismatic spell that randomly attacks all saves at once and programmed all higher level mages to spam it in endgame?

Although the encounters in KotC2 make the talk about overtuned ones in Wrath very cute, the AI itself is spectacular and could work with any type and level of encounter.

Does someone know how to trigger the option to upgrade your units available for hire ? So far I had the option to upgrade my archers and cavalry but I'm not sure what triggered it but I'd like to upgrade my foot soldiers.

I think it's the 3rd military rank upgrade.

 

[Sunri]

They nerfed blackwater quite hard now you just spam electricity rods and its over

 

[ERYFKRAD]

I can solo BG2:EE on Legacy of Bhaal difficulty

0,4% of players manage to do that with full party.

Yes, I too would like to meet the players who can solo with a full party.

 

[LannTheStupid]

reminder that this is still implemented incorrectly and isn't supposed to provide immunity from poison

It is implemented correctly, and it does not provide immunity from poison. What is not implemented correctly - and will never be fixed in all Owlcat Games, because it is a concept - is the flow of time on the locations. However, I'd rather not explain it in details to an obvious troll.

 

[Matalarata]

ierre singlehandedly solved this though, 3E specific no less, so I don't think the resources needed excuse works for Owlcat. The actual reason may well be that it would be quite harder with the RTwP simultaneous turn logic.
Just imagine though how great the Pathfinder games would be if the enemy actually silenced your casters, bull rushed you into pits, burned your web with burning hands, etc. Then the enemies wouldn't need to be overstatted and a good composition alone would be danger enough.

I agree on much of what you say but KoTC uses a much simpler engine and it simplifies many issues. Not that this detracts from his achievement, mind you, but I don't think it would be possible to do the same in a 3d environment? Although I'm sure if he had the resources and a team at his disposal in a perfect universe we could see wonders.


Edit: On a sidenote I just killed a Sinful Sinew At level 11, got over 20k xp

 

[ArchAngel]

WTF is with battles vs Ghouls. Enemy has 3 stacks of Ghouls and they permanently paralyze all your units and you never get a turn again... how did this shit pass any testing?!

Testing? Does OwlCat test their games?

As for crusade, if you are not spamming fireball, ice storm or scorching ray, you are playing crusade wrong.

They even paralyze my Zombies and Skeletons lol

 

[AwesomeButton]

elaborate, I want a good laugh.

Most of it was scripted iirc. Consider though that I have no fookin' idea what I'm talking about, cannot into software

That's not to diminish the value in SCS, but its source code is public on github, and anyone can see SCS consists of (lots of) behavior scripts, the kind which first were made available by BioWare with BGII.

That's why BG1 never had a mod like SCS, but BG1:EE is supported by SCS.

For what I mean under "AI", see for example this: http://battlebrothersgame.com/dev-blog-27-ai-battle-brothers-part-1/ and the GDC presentation they reference.

BTW, from superficially looking at what enemies are doing in WotR, it looks like they either attack you with default attack, use spells and abilities in a scripted sequence, or cast spells at predetermined coordinates - like that baphomet cultist in the first quarter of Market Square who always casts color spray in the same direction, sometimes hitting his own guys. They still have a lot of scripting to do until they reach SCS level if they ever reach it, and would never reach Battle Brothers' level.

They also rarely switch targets. The only reliable instance when they switch targets, in my experience, is if they are moving towards a character to attack in melee, but are intercepted by another character which attacks them in melee. Then they stop and fight the one who attacks them.

 

[Matalarata]

I could have rated your post either informative or the ghost thingie but since my troll boy you quoted is true and I have very limited knoweledge of all this, I gave you a kitty.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Also, why are people complaining about the difficulty? Just play on Core and choose the Last Azlanti mode. Suddenly you really want - and need - to prepare for every combat encounter. Better yet - and this is from personal experience - play Last Azlanti on your first playthrough. THEN you'll notice how very differently you'll be playing the game than usual.

They complain it's too hard, but won't lower the difficulty setting because of epeen reputation damage.

 

[Matalarata]

Bros. At which level I'm supposed to roam here? Drood was level 10, now everyone 11 (by a long shot, I'd say)

 

[LannTheStupid]

When the bug happens (often) you're potentially losing even multiple rounds - if you try to charge again from the same position (with clear straight route towards the enemy).

I wonder if the objects on the field have hitboxes that are not visible in TB, but block the direct route. So a rider on a mount occupies some grid cells that do not allow him to pass between other party members who have their own sets of grid cells. I guess a visible grid could have helped in TB...

 

[Zayne]

Who's my saint demonlord slayer?

Spoiler

You are, Ember!

Poor swarmy guy died in one turn, I've kinda expected more from him, especially since Baphomet was smart enough to start fight with dispelling every single buff from all your characters.

 

[Jaedar]

Not that any of this helps anyhow, since I suspect the enemy you are struggling with is Playful Darkness? Hes not intended to be tanked and is a puzzle fight akin to Kangaxx in BG 2. Hes meant to be dealt with using other measures. The fun of the fight is in figuring him out, having him explained to you kills all the fun.

Well, "struggling" is a strong word. It's not like it's that hard to just let my meleers (and attackers in general) hang back while I keep the enemy busy with skeleton summons and pummeling them with spells. It took me 3 tries to kill it.

The fight that made me complain is act4 minghou. I'm fine with optional bosses being a bit degenerate in their strategies.

 

[AwesomeButton]

When the bug happens (often) you're potentially losing even multiple rounds - if you try to charge again from the same position (with clear straight route towards the enemy).

I wonder if the objects on the field have hitboxes that are not visible in TB, but block the direct route. So a rider on a mount occupies some grid cells that do not allow him to pass between other party members who have their own sets of grid cells. I guess a visible grid could have helped in TB...

Last time I played Nenio's introduction combat, my cavalier's horse just turned crazy and started going in circles without entering the area where the cultists were.

It had no active status effects, neither did the rider, but I wasn't able to issue movement commands. I would select the horse, press G to make it halt, but it wouldn't answer to mouse left-clicks on terrain or attack clicks on enemies. It would just keep going in circles. It was a very convincing impression of the horse being scared IRL :D

 

[gurugeorge]

I've taken to playing it on Normal now.

 

[Shadenuat]

They nerfed blackwater quite hard now you just spam electricity rods and its over

I'd nerf any hp bloats if any, but I don't understand why people lost their mind of regen+immunity to element of it. It's an obvious gimmick, which is no different from enemy being invisible while also having protection from divination.

 

[Rusty Eyes]

elaborate, I want a good laugh.

Most of it was scripted iirc. Consider though that I have no fookin' idea what I'm talking about, cannot into software

That's not to diminish the value in SCS, but its source code is public on github, and anyone can see SCS consists of (lots of) behavior scripts, the kind which first were made available by BioWare with BGII.

That's why BG1 never had a mod like SCS, but BG1:EE is supported by SCS.

For what I mean under "AI", see for example this: http://battlebrothersgame.com/dev-blog-27-ai-battle-brothers-part-1/ and the GDC presentation they reference.

BTW, from superficially looking at what enemies are doing in WotR, it looks like they either attack you with default attack, use spells and abilities in a scripted sequence, or cast spells at predetermined coordinates - like that baphomet cultist in the first quarter of Market Square who always casts color spray in the same direction, sometimes hitting his own guys. They still have a lot of scripting to do until they reach SCS level if they ever reach it, and would never reach Battle Brothers' level.

They also rarely switch targets. The only reliable instance when they switch targets, in my experience, is if they are moving towards a character to attack in melee, but are intercepted by another character which attacks them in melee. Then they stop and fight the one who attacks them.

Still better than the Kingmaker AI mods, where the enemy will ALWAYS target your magic classes, no matter whether they wear armour, the distance etc, which leads to hilarious games of "AoO conga lines". I'm also mixed on the notion of pre-buffed enemies who don't know they can be engaged in combat at any moment.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I've taken to playing it on Normal now.

I switched to normal with my ill-fated wizard when I reached Lost Chapel at lvl 7. Soon after, I restarted with the cavalier.

 

[Reinhardt]

They nerfed blackwater quite hard now you just spam electricity rods and its over

I'd nerf any hp bloats if any, but I don't understand why people lost their mind of regen+immunity to element of it. It's an obvious gimmick, which is no different from enemy being invisible while also having protection from divination.

Have you tried it in tb? Running for 10 rounds from one already downed enemy to another with your only adamantine weapon was many fun.

 

[Shadenuat]

Shouldn't any +4 count as adamantine?

Regardless, while slapping it on a ton of mobs might be dumb, I don't see issue with concept itself, if used on some single enemies.

I'll obviously play ez fun patched game.