Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[thesheeep]

Owlcat Games got hammered for timed quests in Kingmaker, and they went with the crowd in Wrath.

What they got hammered for mostly was not the fact that there was a timer, but that it wasn't clearly communicated at all.
In the end, the timer really wasn't so bad, you could do everything unless you rested after every encounter or sth. like that.

But the timer existing, and you not being given any clear indication as to how much time is left, not even approximately, just makes you think you have to rush through everything, no time to explore, and that's not very enjoyable in a game where exploration is a huge part of the fun.
At least I don't enjoy exploration if I know I have to be quick about it.

They really improved this a lot in Wrath by clearly marking quests as "do it in this chapter or you won't be able to do it".
And there are still place (like the siege) in which you have a clearly limited time with only a set amount of resting possibilities - it does break the narrative a bit if your party can just chill for half a day in the middle of a siege, but that still beats the alternative of toning down the encounters to suit a no-rest scenario.

 

[BarbequeMasta]

The Lich

Spoiler

Gets five Undead Companions who all may-or-may-not have unique dialogue (Staunton does for certain), extra dialogue from raising corpses and binding spirits, and Master Zacharius and your Pillar of Skulls.

Can't speak for the others yet, but those two have very high storyfag marks on-top of their unique content and reactivity.

Kestogyr gets something in the ineluctable prison too IIRC.

 

[Darth Canoli]

it does break the narrative a bit if your party can just chill for half a day in the middle of a siege

Sieges could last for month, assailants launch an assault, then they break down and have to rest and re-evaluate the situation even if they have some fresh troops in reserve.
It's common knowledge...

Where the hell did you go to school?

 

[Haplo]

Hm, turns out the bug wasn't that Sohei cannot use other mounts then horses.
Apprently the bug is that you cannot pick a 3rd Animal Companion class at all. And its still there.
Damn.

I did that one on my Sohei/Hunter/Gandarme with the Wolf. You can't choose to proceed current pet progression for the second time, but you can skip to the next tab in leveling window with > without choosing anything, and pet levels will still be calculated correctly.

Daidre, since you have played such combos, can you advise if barding for pets is worth it? Getting to heavy is quite feat intensive (unless Bulwark, but loosing Evasion sounds kinda bad... currently I like Daredevil due to flanking immunity) and pets don't get a lot of them. I'm wondering if I should invest in these feats. I saw there is some heavy that might be really nice for charging, but I guess that's late/end game?
Plus, how much does medium and heavy barding slow the mount down?

 

[just]

alt tabbing just to say everything about aeon is shit

 

[NJClaw]

You hit lvl 20 before Chapter 4?

Why do you insist on wanting to hit an AC that doesn't exist in the game by that point? This is how you can hit him at the level you encounter him on Core and Hard. And"you can hit him" actually means "you can only miss on a natural 1".

The same character CAN hit him on Unfair, where Playful Darkness has AC 92 with +14 Dexterity and +2 Dodge: with Shatter Defenses his AC becomes 76, and with Finnean and Evil Eye it becomes 63. So with +54 to hit you will hit him on 9+, which is far from "impossible to hit", especially if you factor in Brilliant Inspiration and Ember's Fortune. And we are talking about Unfair with a far from optimal setup. Just using a Skald instead of a Bard gives another +3, bringing the needed result to 6+; with a character with at least 5 Freebooter levels we get another +4 and we only need a 2+ to hit him.

 

[Haplo]

alt tabbing just to say everything about aeon is shit

Do tell.

 

[thesheeep]

it does break the narrative a bit if your party can just chill for half a day in the middle of a siege

Sieges could last for month, assailants launch an assault, then they break down and have to rest and re-evaluate the situation even if they have some fresh troops in reserve.
It's common knowledge...

Where the hell did you go to school?

I went to a school that taught me not to speak about things I have clearly not understood - a lesson that yours seemed to skip.

Sieges lasting months and longer is very obviously not applicable to something like Drezen in this game.
Maybe siege is even somewhat of a misnomer. It's more like a single assault or battle that is over in a few hours max once you join the fray - the only thing making this battle last longer is your party of six taking a nap in the middle of it while everyone else around you (both attackers and defenders) continues their battle LARP.
As I said, it simply breaks the narrative somewhat they are trying to establish in that "scene".

They should have made that "siege" either much shorter (at least your role in it) or indeed split it into a multiple-day siege where resting between battles was woven into the narrative and not somewhat awkward.

 

[NJClaw]

Hm, turns out the bug wasn't that Sohei cannot use other mounts then horses.
Apprently the bug is that you cannot pick a 3rd Animal Companion class at all. And its still there.
Damn.

I did that one on my Sohei/Hunter/Gandarme with the Wolf. You can't choose to proceed current pet progression for the second time, but you can skip to the next tab in leveling window with > without choosing anything, and pet levels will still be calculated correctly.

Daidre, since you have played such combos, can you advise if barding for pets is worth it? Getting to heavy is quite feat intensive (unless Bulwark, but loosing Evasion sounds kinda bad... currently I like Daredevil due to flanking immunity) and pets don't get a lot of them. I'm wondering if I should invest in these feats. I saw there is some heavy that might be really nice for charging, but I guess that's late/end game?
Plus, how much does medium and heavy barding slow the mount down?

I don't know if it's a bug, but right now barding isn't affecting my mount's movement. With light, medium, or heavy barding his speed is always the same as when he is naked.

If you're willing to pick Mythical Beast and buff your animal, Light and Medium barding are definitely not worth it, because even in the best case scenario you're wasting 2 feats to reach the same AC that you would get with Mage Armor + Cat's Grace (worst case scenario: you would actually get better AC without the barding's Dexterity limit). As for Heavy barding, the return on AC you get for 3 feats is abysmal: the only one I've found in the first 3 chapter is Barding of Elder Beasts, which gives +12 armor bonus and +1 max Dexterity; while naked you would get +4 from Mage Armor and +7 from Dexterity. 3 feats for a +2 to AC is kinda sad (and this will only get worse due to Mythical Beast). I think you can get the one that gives 10d6 damage on a charge only in act 5, but that sounds insane (especially with a pouncing mount or a Skald, if it works on all attacks.).

 

[ArchAngel]

it does break the narrative a bit if your party can just chill for half a day in the middle of a siege

Sieges could last for month, assailants launch an assault, then they break down and have to rest and re-evaluate the situation even if they have some fresh troops in reserve.
It's common knowledge...

Where the hell did you go to school?

I went to a school that taught me not to speak about things I have clearly not understood - a lesson that yours seemed to skip.

Sieges lasting months and longer is very obviously not applicable to something like Drezen in this game.
Maybe siege is even somewhat of a misnomer. It's more like a single assault or battle that is over in a few hours max once you join the fray - the only thing making this battle last longer is your party of six taking a nap in the middle of it while everyone else around you (both attackers and defenders) continues their battle LARP.
As I said, it simply breaks the narrative somewhat they are trying to establish in that "scene".

They should have made that "siege" either much shorter (at least your role in it) or indeed split it into a multiple-day siege where resting between battles was woven into the narrative and not somewhat awkward.

They could have solved that with making the siege have two parts, outer region and inside region. And they could have said that they fortified themselves in inner region and you need to spend some time to appraise the new situation and troops for recover so they let you rest once before it continues.

 

[Parabalus]

You hit lvl 20 before Chapter 4?

Why do you insist on wanting to hit an AC that doesn't exist in the game by that point? This is how you can hit him at the level you encounter him on Core and Hard. And"you can hit him" actually means "you can only miss on a natural 1".

The same character CAN hit him on Unfair, where Playful Darkness has AC 92 with +14 Dexterity and +2 Dodge: with Shatter Defenses his AC becomes 76, and with Finnean and Evil Eye it becomes 63. So with +54 to hit you will hit him on 9+, which is far from "impossible to hit", especially if you factor in Brilliant Inspiration and Ember's Fortune. And we are talking about Unfair with a far from optimal setup. Just using a Skald instead of a Bard gives another +3, bringing the needed result to 6+; with a character with at least 5 Freebooter levels we get another +4 and we only need a 2+ to hit him.

Why are you so butthurt?

Hitting him on Core and Hard is easy, but the 112 AC isn't. That last 20 effective AB is much harder to get, hence why I asked.

 

[Haplo]

Hm, turns out the bug wasn't that Sohei cannot use other mounts then horses.
Apprently the bug is that you cannot pick a 3rd Animal Companion class at all. And its still there.
Damn.

I did that one on my Sohei/Hunter/Gandarme with the Wolf. You can't choose to proceed current pet progression for the second time, but you can skip to the next tab in leveling window with > without choosing anything, and pet levels will still be calculated correctly.

Daidre, since you have played such combos, can you advise if barding for pets is worth it? Getting to heavy is quite feat intensive (unless Bulwark, but loosing Evasion sounds kinda bad... currently I like Daredevil due to flanking immunity) and pets don't get a lot of them. I'm wondering if I should invest in these feats. I saw there is some heavy that might be really nice for charging, but I guess that's late/end game?
Plus, how much does medium and heavy barding slow the mount down?

I don't know if it's a bug, but right now barding isn't affecting my mount's movement. With light, medium, or heavy barding his speed is always the same as when he is naked.

If you're willing to pick Mythical Beast and buff your animal, Light and Medium barding are definitely not worth it, because even in the best case scenario you're wasting 2 feats to reach the same AC that you would get with Mage Armor + Cat's Grace (worst case scenario: you would actually get better AC without the barding's Dexterity limit). As for Heavy barding, the return on AC you get for 3 feats is abysmal: the only one I've found in the first 3 chapter is Barding of Elder Beasts, which gives +12 armor bonus and +1 max Dexterity; while naked you would get +4 from Mage Armor and +7 from Dexterity. 3 feats for a +2 to AC is kinda sad (and this will only get worse due to Mythical Beast). I think you can get the one that gives 10d6 damage on a charge only in act 5, but that sounds insane (especially with a pouncing mount or a Skald, if it works on all attacks.).

Yep, definitely plan to pick Mythic Beast. So that clarifies things, thank you!

I already invested in Light Barding actually, but don't regret it: the light barding from Grey Garrison has decent bonuses regardless (+10 move speed - and Smilo is slower then a horse + extra AoO per round). Seems like I'll stay with that option for longer.


Edit: Now to figure out how to fit a Brown Fur Transmuter merc in my party for more uber-buffing. Guess maybe I'll replace Nenio with one once Frightful Aspect comes online.... still have a lot of time to consider this.

 

[NJClaw]

Why are you so butthurt?

Hitting him on Core and Hard is easy, but the 112 AC isn't. That last 20 AB is much harder to get, hence why I asked.

I'm sorry if I sound butthurt, I really don't feel like it.

Hitting him on Core and Hard is easy

Then I think you missed how this discussion started:

Btw on hard i wasn't able to hit playful darkness even fully buffed (including legendary proportions) + guarded heart + inspiring command + mark of justice,

I was mocking him because of this. The fact that on a custom difficulty that is even harder than Unfair that same creature has 112 AC isn't really that relevant. I don't even know how to recreate that AC, the Reddit thread where that screenshot comes from doesn't specify which settings that guy is using.

 

[volklore]

"Why you can't be pro like me guys, it's just 110 AC PFFFF just use that -4 with Ember"

Isn't resistant to Sickened, or Nauseated, or Dazed, or Hideous Laughter, or Confusion or Acid.

It isn't technically immune to hideous laughter (because not mind affecting immun) but it actually is, because it is prone immune and laughter causes prone. So if he fails its save, he'll get affect by laughter but not get prone and therefore will be able to act. I don't know if it's Owlcat's implementation or if that's iffy, because the wording of the spell could mean that subject cannot act regardless of falling prone. But this is how it works in game. Lots of crossed immunities work this way.

 

[Daidre]

Daidre, since you have played such combos, can you advise if barding for pets is worth it? Getting to heavy is quite feat intensive (unless Bulwark, but loosing Evasion sounds kinda bad... currently I like Daredevil due to flanking immunity) and pets don't get a lot of them. I'm wondering if I should invest in these feats. I saw there is some heavy that might be really nice for charging, but I guess that's late/end game?
Plus, how much does medium and heavy barding slow the mount down?

From what I've saw, Barding does not have a movement speed penalty. And Light + Medium Barding feats are imho totally worth it - I have found +6 AC armor in the beginning of Chapter 2 and +8 AC Scalemale in the mid of chapter 3. Plus it could be taken early when pet does not have 3 Int or high enough BAB for better feats.

Can't say about Heavy though, had played far enough to see any of them and on the paper max DEX restriction would start to hurt. DEX from Mythical Beast is nice but it is the second priority Mythic Feat for me (it means Mythic rank 4+). There is also -4 Size Dex on any mountable pet buffed with Animal Growth to account for.

So it all about pet class for me and animal's innate DEX. Some things I've tried:
1. Wolf/Dog Bully with trip - Medium Barding, Outflank asap. No Crane Style (or very late) due to feat tax and penalty from Defensive Fighting applying to CMB.
2. Bully leopard, too small to ride - no barding, max dex, Crane.
3. Bulwark Horse - Medium Barding for Free + Crane. May drop armor later, but it hadn't happened yet even in the late ch3.

 

[volklore]

Also I learned today that you can stack Evil Eye from witch and shamans. They are coded as different sources so they stack ( two witches evil eye don't stack). So Camelia and Ember can do take evil eye each for -8 total debuff lel. Probably unintended and also will probably never be fixed if it is.

 

[Parabalus]

Daidre, since you have played such combos, can you advise if barding for pets is worth it? Getting to heavy is quite feat intensive (unless Bulwark, but loosing Evasion sounds kinda bad... currently I like Daredevil due to flanking immunity) and pets don't get a lot of them. I'm wondering if I should invest in these feats. I saw there is some heavy that might be really nice for charging, but I guess that's late/end game?
Plus, how much does medium and heavy barding slow the mount down?

From what I've saw, Barding does not have a movement speed penalty. And Light + Medium Barding feats are imho totally worth it - I have found +6 AC armor in the beginning of Chapter 2 and +8 AC Scalemale in the mid of chapter 3. Plus it could be taken early when pet does not have 3 Int or high enough BAB for better feats.

Can't say about Heavy though, had played far enough to see any of them and on the paper max DEX restriction would start to hurt. DEX from Mythical Beast is nice but it is the second priority Mythic Feat for me (it means Mythic rank 4+). There is also -4 Size Dex on any mountable pet buffed with Animal Growth to account for.

So it all about pet class for me. Some things I've tried:
1. Wolf/Dog Bully with trip - Medium Barding, Outflank asap. No Crane Style (or very late) due to feat tax and penalty from Defensive Fighting applying to CAB.
2. Bully leopard, too small to ride - no barding, max dex, Crane.
3. Bulwark Horse - Medium Barding for Free + Crane. May drop armor later, but it hadn't happened yet even in the late ch3.

There are 2 Heavy bardings with insane effects.

Barding of Elder Beasts Heavy Barding This +3 full barding grants its wearer a +4 natural armor enhancement bonus to AC and a +3 bonus to CMB against large and bigger enemies.

Royal Guard's Barding This +5 full barding grants its wearer 10d6 additional bludgeoning damage on a successful charge. It also makes the wearer immune to stunned and staggered conditions.

Worth it for that imo.

 

[Haplo]

Daidre, since you have played such combos, can you advise if barding for pets is worth it? Getting to heavy is quite feat intensive (unless Bulwark, but loosing Evasion sounds kinda bad... currently I like Daredevil due to flanking immunity) and pets don't get a lot of them. I'm wondering if I should invest in these feats. I saw there is some heavy that might be really nice for charging, but I guess that's late/end game?
Plus, how much does medium and heavy barding slow the mount down?

From what I've saw, Barding does not have a movement speed penalty. And Light + Medium Barding feats are imho totally worth it - I have found +6 AC armor in the beginning of Chapter 2 and +8 AC Scalemale in the mid of chapter 3. Plus it could be taken early when pet does not have 3 Int or high enough BAB for better feats.

Can't say about Heavy though, had played far enough to see any of them and on the paper max DEX restriction would start to hurt. DEX from Mythical Beast is nice but it is the second priority Mythic Feat for me (it means Mythic rank 4+). There is also -4 Size Dex on any mountable pet buffed with Animal Growth to account for.

So it all about pet class for me. Some things I've tried:
1. Wolf/Dog Bully with trip - Medium Barding, Outflank asap. No Crane Style (or very late) due to feat tax and penalty from Defensive Fighting applying to CAB.
2. Bully leopard, too small to ride - no barding, max dex, Crane.
3. Bulwark Horse - Medium Barding for Free + Crane. May drop armor later, but it hadn't happened yet even in the late ch3.

There are 2 Heavy bardings with insane effects.

Barding of Elder Beasts Heavy Barding This +3 full barding grants its wearer a +4 natural armor enhancement bonus to AC and a +3 bonus to CMB against large and bigger enemies.

Royal Guard's Barding This +5 full barding grants its wearer 10d6 additional bludgeoning damage on a successful charge. It also makes the wearer immune to stunned and staggered conditions.

Worth it for that imo.

Well, there also appears to be one Act 5 light barding which also has a rather cool effect: "Whenever the wearer of this +5 leather barding suffers 30 or more damage in a single hit, he gets the effect of winds of vengeance spell for 1 minute."

Where Winds of Vengeance appears to be a rather nice level 9 buff, that makes you faster (flying in PnP), immune to ranged attacks and gasses and dealing 5d8 damage on failed save to melees hitting you.

 

[Daidre]

I do not know whether to laugh or cry at this point.
Spirited Charge:

Spoiler

x2 Damage from the feat implemented as additional Piercing(!) damage that copies your original damage roll. Applied after the crit multiplier. And it also work on all cleave made in the same round. And it probably would work on her whole full attack action when she'll get Pounce from the Skald with Greater Animal Totem.

 

[volklore]

You hit lvl 20 before Chapter 4?

Why do you insist on wanting to hit an AC that doesn't exist in the game by that point? This is how you can hit him at the level you encounter him on Core and Hard. And"you can hit him" actually means "you can only miss on a natural 1".

The same character CAN hit him on Unfair, where Playful Darkness has AC 92 with +14 Dexterity and +2 Dodge: with Shatter Defenses his AC becomes 76, and with Finnean and Evil Eye it becomes 63. So with +54 to hit you will hit him on 9+, which is far from "impossible to hit", especially if you factor in Brilliant Inspiration and Ember's Fortune. And we are talking about Unfair with a far from optimal setup. Just using a Skald instead of a Bard gives another +3, bringing the needed result to 6+; with a character with at least 5 Freebooter levels we get another +4 and we only need a 2+ to hit him.

I agree with you on your main argument. But I don't think shatter defenses does anything on a shaken immune enemy.

 

[ga♥]

I agree with you on your main argument. But I don't think shatter defenses does anything on a shaken immune enemy.

NJClown will now post some badly cut screenshot taken at story mode to BTFO you. Beware.
Being idiotic he decided to die on the hill of "PD is easy n00bs" while clearly he was built as a challenge to find other ways beside hitting to deal with it.

 

[Parabalus]

I do not know whether to laugh or cry at this point.
Spirited Charge:

Spoiler

x2 Damage from the feat implemented as additional Piercing(!) damage that copies your original damage roll. Applied after the crit multiplier. And it also work on all cleave made in the same round. And it probably would work on her whole full attack action when she'll get Pounce from the Skald with Greater Animal Totem.

But on the flip side you have to play with the buggy charge, evens out.

 

[Haplo]

I do not know whether to laugh or cry at this point.
Spirited Charge:

Spoiler

x2 Damage from the feat implemented as additional Piercing(!) damage that copies your original damage roll. Applied after the crit multiplier. And it also work on all cleave made in the same round. And it probably would work on her whole full attack action when she'll get Pounce from the Skald with Greater Animal Totem.

Its sweet, isn't it?

Makes me want to take the Greater Cleaving Finish line. Then again, no room for the Trip feats then and I kinda like those.

 

[Parabalus]

I do not know whether to laugh or cry at this point.
Spirited Charge:

Spoiler

x2 Damage from the feat implemented as additional Piercing(!) damage that copies your original damage roll. Applied after the crit multiplier. And it also work on all cleave made in the same round. And it probably would work on her whole full attack action when she'll get Pounce from the Skald with Greater Animal Totem.

Its sweet, isn't it?

Makes me want to take the Greater Cleaving Finish line. Then again, no room for the Trip feats then and I kinda like those.

Can't you let your mount trip?

GCF is insane with mounted reach.

 

[Daidre]

But on the flip side you have to play with the buggy charge, evens out.

Nah, it is completely fine in RTwP and so addictively fun that it is my 5th or 6th Mounted character.

And TB... what could I say? Special package of bugs for all those nice people who were harping about TB mode, from Owlcat - with love.