Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Cryomancer]

Owlcat balancing for munchkin players isn't my jam

I prefer pure RP builds over pure power gamer builds HOWEVER, it is actually a good thing. Less chance of going PF2e or D&D 5e. Nobody deserves low CR enemies soaking multiple finger of death spells. In 5e, you have CR 4 spiders with almost 150 hp(the same hit points which Vecna, the demigod lich had in 2E), it is enough to be shot by 6 9 pound cannon assuming average damage(22) and survive as if is nothing.

 

[Shackleton]

Overall quite enjoyed it but looking back it's odd because the actual gameplay of it was the least enjoyable thing to me. Mythic paths were neat and it seems like they influence story and character interactions a good bit, but actually stomping through areas fighting enemies turned into kind of a drag. Admittedly I always prefer lower level D&D even though high powered bullshit's fun on occasion so that might be part of it. Story-wise the high power level's cool but actually playing with a party of 20th level characters with mythic powers was irritating.

This sums up my feelings exactly. I'm just slogging through Midnight Fane at the moment and struggling to keep motivation. I love everything about the game apart from the combat and there's just so much of it. Thinking it might be best to just turn down the difficulty and breeze through, but then everything to do with the fantastic character building will feel a bit pointless.

 

[Parabalus]

Is it just me, or is there a complete lack of agile weapons in this game?

Only one of note I've found is a fucking trident. A weapon THAT CAN'T BE FINESSED*. (whoever did that has a sick sense of humor)



edit - *yes, I know about fighter training, still a bit of a dick move.

If you're a Trickster Improved Trick Knowledge : Arcana can add it to any weapon.

 

[Mauman]

Overall quite enjoyed it but looking back it's odd because the actual gameplay of it was the least enjoyable thing to me. Mythic paths were neat and it seems like they influence story and character interactions a good bit, but actually stomping through areas fighting enemies turned into kind of a drag. Admittedly I always prefer lower level D&D even though high powered bullshit's fun on occasion so that might be part of it. Story-wise the high power level's cool but actually playing with a party of 20th level characters with mythic powers was irritating.

This sums up my feelings exactly. I'm just slogging through Midnight Fane at the moment and struggling to keep motivation. I love everything about the game apart from the combat and there's just so much of it. Thinking it might be best to just turn down the difficulty and breeze through, but then everything to do with the fantastic character building will feel a bit pointless.

Yeah, Midnight Fane is a bit of slog. Hold out though, as you're coming up to one of the more interesting places I've seen in a video game for quite a while.

Pro-tip: Have dimension door memorized for the next area.

Is it just me, or is there a complete lack of agile weapons in this game?

Only one of note I've found is a fucking trident. A weapon THAT CAN'T BE FINESSED*. (whoever did that has a sick sense of humor)



edit - *yes, I know about fighter training, still a bit of a dick move.

If you're a Trickster Improved Trick Knowledge : Arcana can add it to any weapon.

Yeah, I am a Trickster, but I didn't want to get into the habit of save scumming weapons I found.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

I prefer pure RP builds over pure power gamer builds HOWEVER, it is actually a good thing. Less chance of going PF2e or D&D 5e. Nobody deserves low CR enemies soaking multiple finger of death spells. In 5e, you have CR 4 spiders with almost 150 hp(the same hit points which Vecna, the demigod lich had in 2E), it is enough to be shot by 6 9 pound cannon assuming average damage(22) and survive as if is nothing.

As much as I like 5e's general move toward pulling back high level and powering up low level the HP bloat is pretty bad. Haven't dipped my toe in BG3 yet since I'm waiting for actual release to give it a spin but after playing Solasta I'm glad that BG3 is supposedly going to be low-ish level in the 1-10 range. I'd also say I theoretically prefer mid level 5e to high level 3rd edition based on my Solasta play, even with 5e's flaws. I'd probably take 3rd edition over high level 5th edition but thus far I've dodged that bullet so I can pretend high level 5e doesn't exist.

This sums up my feelings exactly. I'm just slogging through Midnight Fane at the moment and struggling to keep motivation. I love everything about the game apart from the combat and there's just so much of it. Thinking it might be best to just turn down the difficulty and breeze through, but then everything to do with the fantastic character building will feel a bit pointless.

If you're dragging ass in the Fane then you might be in a tough spot once you get into the next chapter. On one hand, cool location with some cool story beats. On the other hand, pain in the ass to navigate and quite a few quests will have you running all over. Not Witcher 1 levels of jogging around but still a hassle. Next area does have less in the way of dungeon crawling though so maybe that'll help.

 

[AwesomeButton]

Overall quite enjoyed it but looking back it's odd because the actual gameplay of it was the least enjoyable thing to me. Mythic paths were neat and it seems like they influence story and character interactions a good bit, but actually stomping through areas fighting enemies turned into kind of a drag. Admittedly I always prefer lower level D&D even though high powered bullshit's fun on occasion so that might be part of it. Story-wise the high power level's cool but actually playing with a party of 20th level characters with mythic powers was irritating.

This sums up my feelings exactly. I'm just slogging through Midnight Fane at the moment and struggling to keep motivation. I love everything about the game apart from the combat and there's just so much of it. Thinking it might be best to just turn down the difficulty and breeze through, but then everything to do with the fantastic character building will feel a bit pointless.

So, like most RPGs, it's fun for the first 5 levels or so?

 

[Parabalus]

Overall quite enjoyed it but looking back it's odd because the actual gameplay of it was the least enjoyable thing to me. Mythic paths were neat and it seems like they influence story and character interactions a good bit, but actually stomping through areas fighting enemies turned into kind of a drag. Admittedly I always prefer lower level D&D even though high powered bullshit's fun on occasion so that might be part of it. Story-wise the high power level's cool but actually playing with a party of 20th level characters with mythic powers was irritating.

This sums up my feelings exactly. I'm just slogging through Midnight Fane at the moment and struggling to keep motivation. I love everything about the game apart from the combat and there's just so much of it. Thinking it might be best to just turn down the difficulty and breeze through, but then everything to do with the fantastic character building will feel a bit pointless.

Most encounters should be hands-free for you as a player, i.e., buff up at the start of a map and A-move through everything in RTwP.

If you have to micromanage more best to turn down the difficulty, there's too much combat otherwise.

 

[Haplo]

I've learned a fun fact about Sohei Flurry. If you have Weapon Training from Fighter levels, you can flurry with any weapon you have Training in. So essentially a 1 level dip in Sohei gives Fighter multiclasses an extra Full-BAB attack (and extra feat + other monk goodies, such as Wis-to-AC).

Nice find!
Do you think Sohei 11 is worth it for an archer? I'm thinking either 4 Mutagen Fighter/1 Demonslayer/2 Eldritch Archer/11 Sohei/2 Deliverer, or 5 Mutagen Fighter/1 Demonslayer/2 Eldritch Archer/1 Sohei/11 Deliverer. Both Angel.
The 11 Sohei version has 11 attacks, 7 of these are at full BAB + Manyshot. But the 11th attack would only come at lvl 18. Until then it'd have the Ki Extra Attacks.
The 11 Deliverer version has 10 attacks, 6 of these are at full BAB + Manyshot. But it has 5 more AB and 3-4 SA dices.

Well Sohei also gets extra Ki Attack on demand. Still, I'd probably go for more AB and damage.

Yeah, after some testing, the Deliverer version looks to be the better option - much much smoother damage output progression. 1-2 attacks fewer in the end but better time overall.
Sohei version still needs Weapon Training for the extra attack to kick in, so I'll have to start with Sohei for 6 levels and deal next to no damage, then get mutagen, then Eldritch Archer, then Sohei again, then Demonslayer. All to get one extra attack at the end plus another one on demand. Deliverer version gets like 6 or 7 attacks at lvl 8.

What about Hammer the Gap? Can it be good with so many full BAB attacks?

I guess it depends on your AB... and how much you miss.
I'm a bit sceptical though.

 

[axedice]

Are you having problems hitting the playful darkness? End game AC 100 demons? Your high-school sweetheart? Well don't!! Just play trickster, choose completely normal spell with your infuser alchemist and voila! Now you have an infinite source of true strikes that you can cast on everyone!!!1111

Srysly man why are alchemists so busted I can't even... Oh and free expeditious retreats and shields for everyone as well. Which obviously last for 24h because why not.

 

[Jaedar]

I really dislike queen galfrey

act 5

You don't even get to kill her yourself, because she goes and gets mortally wounded before you arrive. Even raising her as an undead abomination and she just goes "gee thanks!". She and her ruling council have been a thorn in the side of my evil characters crusade since the start, and you don't get to extract any petty revenge.

Late game lich is also kinda silly. I raised two mythic vavakias, and they're basically soloing the entire dungeon with their insane fear aura and breath attacks.

Seriously, what is the point of playing an evil character if you don't get to take petty revenge on anyone who wronged you?

choose completely normal spell with your infuser alchemist and voila! Now you have an infinite source of true strikes that you can cast on everyone!!!1111

You don't need true strike if you are attacking against touch AC... which alchemist bombs do. Alchemists are definitely very strong.

 

[Jermu]

I really dislike queen galfrey

act 5

You don't even get to kill her yourself, because she goes and gets mortally wounded before you arrive. Even raising her as an undead abomination and she just goes "gee thanks!". She and her ruling council have been a thorn in the side of my evil characters crusade since the start, and you don't get to extract any petty revenge.

Spoiler

You can kill her but Im not sure if it is path specific or based on something else

 

[Yosharian]

Are you having problems hitting the playful darkness? End game AC 100 demons? Your high-school sweetheart? Well don't!! Just play trickster, choose completely normal spell with your infuser alchemist and voila! Now you have an infinite source of true strikes that you can cast on everyone!!!1111

Srysly man why are alchemists so busted I can't even... Oh and free expeditious retreats and shields for everyone as well. Which obviously last for 24h because why not.

Does that actually work? I tried to make Shield a cantrip and it didn't work, didn't even appear in the list

 

[Sharpedge]

Seriously, what is the point of playing an evil character if you don't get to take petty revenge on anyone who wronged you?

You can actually, that particular outcome is dependent on a few factors.

Spoiler

Whether or not the queen "dies" is dependent on the order you do events in. If you travel to the queen first, she will not die and you will have the option of killing her. Alternatively, you can save her then kill her later at the victory celebration. In the event you do not go to the queen first, if you treated Irabeth poorly, she will travel with the queen and will die in place of the queen. This will allow you the same set of options as above. The only circumstance in which the queen is guaranteed a heroic death is if Irabeth likes you (thus she doesn't travel with the queen and die for her) and you also do not go to the queen first.

Hilariously enough however, Aeon, which is not an evil aligned character, has a path specific dialogue option to kill her. Aeon considers her extended life to be an affront to the universal balance and severs the spell maintaining her long life, causing her to age to her actual age and leading her to instantly die of old age.

 

[Stoned Ape]

So, with a Shieldbearer, the Warpriest damage boost does work, but I only managed it in a specific way.

You need to take weapon focus- spiked shield for it to benefit from the sacred weapon bonus.

Last time I checked, this does not work for other Warpriests, or for Shieldbearers using normal shields.

I think that Seela would be extremely effective as a Paladin 4/Shieldbearer 16, too.

EDIT: forgot to mention, spiked shield +5 stacks with shield mastery to get +12 to hit and damage, apparently.

 

[axedice]

Yosharian : There's no 0 level spells page in the alchemist spellbook, but level 0 spells appear in the in-game spellbook above the action bar.

Alchemist bombs are great, can't deny the usefullness of holy bomb spamming but it still doesn't achieve the guaranteed 200 normal - 600 crit damage of vital strikes at level 14. I guess by lvl16-17 I'll be seeing 1000s all around

 

[Saark]

Seriously, what is the point of playing an evil character if you don't get to take petty revenge on anyone who wronged you?

As someone else pointed out, this solely depends on choices you made leading up to this stage of the game. I myself had Irabeth die instead of the Queen against the dragon. I chose to leave her alive then and there. After defeating Deskari the queen came back to Drezen with her crusaders, and had the gall to lecture me on how I used my powers and turned the crusade into another abyssal army (I chose the Demon mythic path). I then told her to fuck off, and using my demonic rage in a cutscene, I made her watch as I struck down all her crusaders and friends including Anevia, Ramien and a variety of other named human NPCs with mythic demonic lightning strikes. She was left for last and died the same death as her companions. Fuck that bitch.

 

[Sharpedge]

Just a general FYI for anyone else who enjoys playing spontaneous casters - If you level up while equipping items which grant additional spells to spontaneous casters (for example, the ring that gives a bunch of fire spells like scorching ray, fireball and fiery body) and you were due to gain a spell slot which could have potentially allocated a spell on the level of whatever spells the item is giving, the item will consume those spell slots and you will gain no spells of that spell level. So, to save yourself either having much less spells than intended for your class and having to respec if you want to fix it, whenever you level up, ensure you unequip any of these items.

 

[Turuko]

Just a general FYI for anyone else who enjoys playing spontaneous casters - If you level up while equipping items which grant additional spells to spontaneous casters (for example, the ring that gives a bunch of fire spells like scorching ray, fireball and fiery body) and you were due to gain a spell slot which could have potentially allocated a spell on the level of whatever spells the item is giving, the item will consume those spell slots and you will gain no spells of that spell level. So, to save yourself either having much less spells than intended for your class and having to respec if you want to fix it, whenever you level up, ensure you unequip any of these items.

fuck me sideways that's why?

 

[Ghulgothas]

I've been sucking up to the Queen as much as possible in my Angel run, wanna see what mixture of choices leads to her letting you keep your title of Knight-Commander before heading of to the Abyss in Act IV.

Gonna push the envelope in the other direction as much as possible as a Demon next run.

 

[Dishonoredbr]

Very well, Owlcat. You win.

I will fugg the bugg.

The bug has a pretty nice romance. I recomend I would fugg the bug again/10

 

[mediocrepoet]

Very well, Owlcat. You win.

I will fugg the bugg.

The bug has a pretty nice romance. I recomend I would fugg the bug again/10

I may not have the highest standards, but I have to say that spider legs growing out of your back is a deal breaker. Hard pass.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Seriously, what is the point of playing an evil character if you don't get to take petty revenge on anyone who wronged you?

In Kingmaker it meant that you are not evil enough. "[Evil][Attack]" random neutrals sometimes lead to unexpected results; the only real death threat to Tristian, for example. Wrath could be the same.

 

[Mauman]

Does that actually work? I tried to make Shield a cantrip and it didn't work, didn't even appear in the list

It didn't work at first, now it does.

My Trickster has a dip in vivi for the infinite true strikes I can dole out as needed. My brown fur arcanist will use a level 0 magic missile to pass turns she doesn't need to do anything more serious.

etc, etc.

 

[Jaedar]

Just a general FYI for anyone else who enjoys playing spontaneous casters - If you level up while equipping items which grant additional spells to spontaneous casters (for example, the ring that gives a bunch of fire spells like scorching ray, fireball and fiery body) and you were due to gain a spell slot which could have potentially allocated a spell on the level of whatever spells the item is giving, the item will consume those spell slots and you will gain no spells of that spell level. So, to save yourself either having much less spells than intended for your class and having to respec if you want to fix it, whenever you level up, ensure you unequip any of these items.

Spontaneous casters also seem to get shafted when they merge spellbooks, as they lose spell picks for 2 levels when merging (you do at least gain all the spells from the mythic spellbook).

 

[Stoned Ape]

What's the highest level you can reach before the second mythic path decision moment?

I know I've got there at 18th level before, is it possible to reach 19th?

Just thinking that then it would be possible to get Perfectly Normal Spell and the Improved... feats from Trickster before switching to Gold Dragon.

If you use a Sword Saint, I think you could use an Estoc with level 0 shocking grasp, eventually scale the spell to d10 holy damage dice from Dragon, get an 11-20 crit range, and (I think) a x5 crit multiplier after reaching 20th level with +25 BAB.

It might be pretty fun to try.