Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Haplo]

I am confused how you get lvl 19 A. companion. Mutation Warrior does not get AC, I am not sure for Monk Sohei, and Loremaster does not for sure. I don't even know what is this Gendarme, some Cavalier subclass?

Sohei gets animal companion, their whole deal is being a mounted monk. Gendarme is the mounted charging cavalier subclass.

That is correct. Although clearly the levelling of ACs on multiclass companions is also wonky/buggy. In theory the build should loose 9 (5 Mutation Warrior + 3 Cleric levels + 1 Loremaster) - 4 (Boon) = 5 AC levels.
But that is not the case. It looses only one. Maybe Boon is counted separately for each class?

Still strange, as not taking Loremaster and going with an AC class results in a level 20 AC.


Anyway, I also have a Sacred Huntsmaster variant (any Animal Companion, needs 1 less Mythic Ability to function well), that is not destined to be played as Angel (no merging spellbooks), but should work pretty well as Legend (Cavalier level 20 x4 charges would be sweet! ...and even better with Trickster crits, I guess), Aeon (Bane stacking isn't the best thing since sliced bread... but not shabby either... and dispels are helpful vs tough enemies), Demon (kinda awesome.... but limit of 2-3-4 times per rest kinda sucks), Trickster (guess would need to change some feats/skip main char tripping then) or even Lich.
That one would sound more "legit" due to full AC progression on Sacred Huntsmaster - although it still uses Mutation Warrior 5 and likely Loremaster - and ends with AC level 20.

 

[ga♥]

Using animal companions, especially the one that don't start as small, if you don't mount them and you use RTwP is a pain in the ass with all the path blocking. In my 2nd play I ditched them all together, and no regrets exept the less weight I could carry.

Also honestly the fact they can use bracers, belts and stuff made for "humanoids" makes no sense (or that they can use trickery on locks and traps wtf).

 

[ArchAngel]

Using animal companions, especially the one that don't start as small, if you don't mount them and you use RTwP is a pain in the ass with all the path blocking. In my 2nd play I ditched them all together, and no regrets exept the less weight I could carry.

Also honestly the fact they can use bracers, belts and stuff made for "humanoids" makes no sense (or that they can use trickery on locks and traps wtf).

Most magical items in D&D resize automatically to fit the wearer. Only armors and weapons don't. Still having an AC with a cloak and a hat would look hilarious.

 

[ArchAngel]

I am confused how you get lvl 19 A. companion. Mutation Warrior does not get AC, I am not sure for Monk Sohei, and Loremaster does not for sure. I don't even know what is this Gendarme, some Cavalier subclass?

Sohei gets animal companion, their whole deal is being a mounted monk. Gendarme is the mounted charging cavalier subclass.

That is correct. Although clearly the levelling of ACs on multiclass companions is also wonky/buggy. In theory the build should loose 9 (5 Mutation Warrior + 3 Cleric levels + 1 Loremaster) - 4 (Boon) = 5 AC levels.
But that is not the case. It looses only one. Maybe Boon is counted separately for each class?

Still strange, as not taking Loremaster and going with an AC class results in a level 20 AC.


Anyway, I also have a Sacred Huntsmaster variant, that is not destined to be played as Angel (no merging spellbooks), but should work pretty well as Legend (Cavalier level 20 x4 charges would be sweet! ...and even better with Trickster crits, I guess), Aeon (Bane stacking isn't the best thing since sliced bread... but not shabby either... and dispels are helpful vs tough enemies), Demon (kinda awesome.... but limit of 2-3-4 times per rest kinda sucks), Trickster (guess would need to change some feats/skip main char tripping then) or even Lich.
That one would sound more "legit" due to full AC progression on Sacred Huntsmaster - although it still uses Mutation Warrior 5 and likely Loremaster - and ends with AC level 20.

Ok, that explains it :D
I wonder if AC can go over lvl 20 if you are playing Legend.

As for Loremaster, that thing is busted for Nenio. In all my runs Nenio has Improved Evasion because of it :D
Caster Sosiel can also grab Loremaster and he can get the same. Witch powers are basically useless in later levels so it is not a big loss if you also take Loremaster for Ember. Not sure for Daeron, his Oracle powers are actually useful. And Camelia's class basic choice makes her a powerful melee character and Loremaster prerequisites and levels might hurt her (Although I always take at least one metamagic with witch power so you only need to waste one more perk and 5 skill points).

 

[Haplo]

I do not think they can. Not that I tested it.

 

[ga♥]

Camelia multiclassing depends on your mythic path. People going +2 of instictual warrior on here seems good, but you lose some AC from her bone/air armor if you use it.
If you are angel with merged spellbook, you would give her buckler +7 AC with magic vestment, shield (which seems a bug, but still), and that's pretty much unbeatable so rather keep her pure.

 

[ArchAngel]

Camelia multiclassing depends on your mythic path. People going +2 of instictual warrior on here seems good, but you lose some AC from her bone/air armor if you use it.
If you are angel with merged spellbook, you would give her buckler +7 AC with magic vestment, shield (which seems a bug, but still), and that's pretty much unbeatable so rather keep her pure.

Hmm I never took bonus spirits that would give her that armor, that is not a bad idea. But I did take once Animal spirit and she got a nice Smilodon at high levels to mount. In TB mounted combat is bugged and you get a free pounce as a rider as the game spends a move action with your AC to move you to enemy and you then get your full attack. So it is a nice DPS boost for Camelia (and Smilodon deals decent damage on its own)

 

[ga♥]

yeah well, you can't have both, so either animal companion or "archmage armour without using any mythical ability" on her.

 

[Haplo]

Camelia multiclassing depends on your mythic path. People going +2 of instictual warrior on here seems good, but you lose some AC from her bone/air armor if you use it.
If you are angel with merged spellbook, you would give her buckler +7 AC with magic vestment, shield (which seems a bug, but still), and that's pretty much unbeatable so rather keep her pure.

Hmm I never took bonus spirits that would give her that armor, that is not a bad idea. But I did take once Animal spirit and she got a nice Smilodon at high levels to mount. In TB mounted combat is bugged and you get a free pounce as a rider as the game spends a move action with your AC to move you to enemy and you then get your full attack. So it is a nice DPS boost for Camelia (and Smilodon deals decent damage on its own)

Seems intentional to me. Of course, in Tabletop you'd need 14 BAB and at least 2 feats to achieve this.

Still, its not equal to Mounted Charge Pounce in crpg - as then with Spirited Charge all your damage is doubled (quadrupled if you're also level 20 Cavalier). Plus you get many bonuses: +2/+4 AB, Mythic Charge extra damage, possibly free Combat Maneuvers if Cavalier, possibly adding mount Strength if Sword Cavalier, armor bonus, boots bonus, possibly weapon bonus and so on....

 

[ArchAngel]

yeah well, you can't have both, so either animal companion or "archmage armour without using any mythical ability" on her.

Once you are mounted everyone ignores the rider so you don't need extra AC :D while you get a big boost in dps department and extra carry limit. Only trick is that your companion will not appear until you get another level in her class (unless they fixed that in the meantime).

 

[ArchAngel]

Camelia multiclassing depends on your mythic path. People going +2 of instictual warrior on here seems good, but you lose some AC from her bone/air armor if you use it.
If you are angel with merged spellbook, you would give her buckler +7 AC with magic vestment, shield (which seems a bug, but still), and that's pretty much unbeatable so rather keep her pure.

Hmm I never took bonus spirits that would give her that armor, that is not a bad idea. But I did take once Animal spirit and she got a nice Smilodon at high levels to mount. In TB mounted combat is bugged and you get a free pounce as a rider as the game spends a move action with your AC to move you to enemy and you then get your full attack. So it is a nice DPS boost for Camelia (and Smilodon deals decent damage on its own)

Seems intentional to me. Of course, in Tabletop you'd need 14 BAB and at least 2 feats to achieve this.

Still, its not equal to Mounted Charge Pounce in crpg - as then with Spirited Charge all your damage is doubled (quadrupled if you're also level 20 Cavalier). Plus you get many bonuses: +2/+4 AB, Mythic Charge extra damage, possibly free Combat Maneuvers if Cavalier, possibly adding mount Strength if Sword Cavalier, armor bonus, boots bonus, possibly weapon bonus and so on....

That is good if Spirited Charge was not buggy and worked when it should. My Mad dog barbarian mostly did damage because of pounce and mythic power attack, spirited charge rarely worked and when it did it was always piercing damage no matter what weapon you used and as a result was resisted by some enemies.
But in PnP it only works with Lances and piercing weapons, it does not work with any weapons. It is too good in WotR. Probably better to not abuse it unless you play on impossible difficulty or something.

 

[ga♥]

Btw a nice build for Seelah is pala 14/1 sf/1 crossblooded sorcerer/4DD, with pumping charisma at every level stat increase. She has "shield focus" which will go to waste, but still.

 

[Haplo]

Camelia multiclassing depends on your mythic path. People going +2 of instictual warrior on here seems good, but you lose some AC from her bone/air armor if you use it.
If you are angel with merged spellbook, you would give her buckler +7 AC with magic vestment, shield (which seems a bug, but still), and that's pretty much unbeatable so rather keep her pure.

Hmm I never took bonus spirits that would give her that armor, that is not a bad idea. But I did take once Animal spirit and she got a nice Smilodon at high levels to mount. In TB mounted combat is bugged and you get a free pounce as a rider as the game spends a move action with your AC to move you to enemy and you then get your full attack. So it is a nice DPS boost for Camelia (and Smilodon deals decent damage on its own)

Seems intentional to me. Of course, in Tabletop you'd need 14 BAB and at least 2 feats to achieve this.

Still, its not equal to Mounted Charge Pounce in crpg - as then with Spirited Charge all your damage is doubled (quadrupled if you're also level 20 Cavalier). Plus you get many bonuses: +2/+4 AB, Mythic Charge extra damage, possibly free Combat Maneuvers if Cavalier, possibly adding mount Strength if Sword Cavalier, armor bonus, boots bonus, possibly weapon bonus and so on....

That is good if Spirited Charge was not buggy and worked when it should. My Mad dog barbarian mostly did damage because of pounce and mythic power attack, spirited charge rarely worked and when it did it was always piercing damage no matter what weapon you used and as a result was resisted by some enemies.
But in PnP it only works with Lances and piercing weapons, it does not work with any weapons. It is too good in WotR. Probably better to not abuse it unless you play on impossible difficulty or something.

I agree its strong. But I don't see anything in Pathfinder rules limiting it to piercing weapons:
"When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance)."
So its simply even stronger with lances, not limited to them.

Also enemies with major Piercing resistance? Have not met them yet, I think. Incorporeal maybe, but they ignore 50% of all physical damage (unless you have Ghost Touch).

On the other hand, I guess using Pounce in general (and even more so Vulpine Pounce) with mounted charge is quite cheesy indeed....

 

[ArchAngel]

Camelia multiclassing depends on your mythic path. People going +2 of instictual warrior on here seems good, but you lose some AC from her bone/air armor if you use it.
If you are angel with merged spellbook, you would give her buckler +7 AC with magic vestment, shield (which seems a bug, but still), and that's pretty much unbeatable so rather keep her pure.

Hmm I never took bonus spirits that would give her that armor, that is not a bad idea. But I did take once Animal spirit and she got a nice Smilodon at high levels to mount. In TB mounted combat is bugged and you get a free pounce as a rider as the game spends a move action with your AC to move you to enemy and you then get your full attack. So it is a nice DPS boost for Camelia (and Smilodon deals decent damage on its own)

Seems intentional to me. Of course, in Tabletop you'd need 14 BAB and at least 2 feats to achieve this.

Still, its not equal to Mounted Charge Pounce in crpg - as then with Spirited Charge all your damage is doubled (quadrupled if you're also level 20 Cavalier). Plus you get many bonuses: +2/+4 AB, Mythic Charge extra damage, possibly free Combat Maneuvers if Cavalier, possibly adding mount Strength if Sword Cavalier, armor bonus, boots bonus, possibly weapon bonus and so on....

That is good if Spirited Charge was not buggy and worked when it should. My Mad dog barbarian mostly did damage because of pounce and mythic power attack, spirited charge rarely worked and when it did it was always piercing damage no matter what weapon you used and as a result was resisted by some enemies.
But in PnP it only works with Lances and piercing weapons, it does not work with any weapons. It is too good in WotR. Probably better to not abuse it unless you play on impossible difficulty or something.

I agree its strong. But I don't see anything in Pathfinder rules limiting it to piercing weapons:
"When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance)."
So its simply even stronger with lances, not limited to them.

Also enemies with major Piercing resistance? Have not met them yet, I think. Incorporeal maybe, but they ignore 50% of all physical damage (unless you have Ghost Touch).

On the other hand, I guess using Pounce in general (and even more so Vulpine Pounce) with mounted charge is quite cheesy indeed....

Ah you are right but in D&D you cannot pounce with mounted combat as the horse is charging, not you.

But I don't mind Pounce abilities being so available in this "Mythic campaign" . In D&D 3.5 Epic levels, fighters at lvl 21 could take Epic Charge which was basically Pounce and it was only thing that made them useful for such campaigns.
It is a big shame there is no such Mythic ability in this game and that we all need to fuck around with Pounce abilities.

 

[Haplo]

Well there's also Vital Strike line standard actions as an alternative to Pounce. And now mounts granting Full Attack after movement too. So there are 3 viable, broad paths for melees. Having access to none of them must suck in Turn Based, though.
At least when you've tried some combination of those.

 

[ArchAngel]

Well there's also Vital Strike line standard actions as an alternative to Pounce. And now mounts granting Full Attack after movement too. So there are 3 viable, broad paths for melees. Having access to none of them must suck in Turn Based, though.
At least when you've tried some combination of those.

Vital is crap as it does nothing for being Hasted or other abilities that give multiple attacks or precision attacks. I learned that the hard way when I specialized Sosiel into it. Even with Mythic Vital Strike it is still subpar. It is only good vs high DR enemies. It works nice with Mythic Power Attack but you still lose a lot, especially if you got a high crit chance weapon.

Putting a character on a mount is probably only good solution for TB as even without a charge you get a "Pounce" ability but without a +2 charge bonus.
I think I am going to do that with Sosiel on this run, try to give him additional domain that lets him get a companion. So will Camila if I keep her in party. She does not really fit the Drizzt Trickster into Legend run. He starts as CN but will become CG by the end of it. Unlike the books he will ride Guenhwyvar into battle for the free pounce with his scimitar storm attacks.

 

[NJClaw]

Vital is crap as it does nothing for being Hasted or other abilities that give multiple attacks or precision attacks. I learned that the hard way when I specialized Sosiel into it. Even with Mythic Vital Strike it is still subpar. It is only good vs high DR enemies. It works nice with Mythic Power Attack but you still lose a lot, especially if you got a high crit chance weapon.

Sure, but it also lets you one-shot Deskari, so...

Once you deal almost 900 damage with a single hit (3000+ on a crit) and can cleave through all the enemies you have in range, why would you care for iterative attacks? But yeah, this only holds if they fixed Great Cleave, which I'm not sure of.

 

[ArchAngel]

Counting on 10% crit chance when you need it is not a good character plan/build LOL
Also where did you get that 1110 bonus damage? That is some angel bullshit? that 50% damage bonus or something?

Good luck getting this damage with non Angel. I mentioned Sosiel as one I did it with, he does not have access to any of this.

Ok the main advantage of Vital Strike over Mounted Combat is that you can use enlarge spells and you must use it to get a good boost to damage. With mounted combat you are stuck on normal size or you cannot use your mount.
And I did use Frightening form spell with Sosiel, used Mythic Power Attack and still did just about 130 non crit damage per hit (unless he rolled 1).

 

[NJClaw]

Counting on 10% crit chance when you need it is not a good character plan/build LOL

10%? You have to try to gimp yourself REALLY hard to only get a 10% crit chance in this game. If Brilliant Inspiration is still acting weird, with that and Ember's Fortune you roll 4 dice and pick the best, which means that even with the worst possible weapon to fish for crits, you still have a 35% chance with Improved Critical. Moreover, "when you need it", you can also add Sosiel's Touch of Luck to get to 40%. Using a more reasonable weapon (greatswords, bardiches, or heavy flails), those numbers become 60% (68% with Touch of Luck). With an optimal weapon for this (a falchion or a fauchard), it becomes 75% (83% with Touch of Luck).

But I was just shitposting, I only wanted an excuse to repost that screenshot.

Also where did you get that 1110 bonus damage? That is some angel bullshit? that 50% damage bonus or something?

Yeah, it's Abolish Guile. I think it applies to every demon in the game other than those slime omox guys. And yeah, I don't know how to reach these same numbers without the Angel's broken shit.

Ok the main advantage of Vital Strike over Mounted Combat is that you can use enlarge spells and you must use it to get a good boost to damage. With mounted combat you are stuck on normal size or you cannot use your mount.

I think you can still use enlarge spells if your mount is a horse. You get some weird visual bugs and your character assumes the form of a demonic centaur, but it works.

On my Angel playthrough, Vital Strike has been satisfying to use and it has carried me through (I think) 75% of the game. There still were times where full-attacking was better, but only due to Great Cleave not working properly and targeting already dead enemies with the bonus attacks. However, I wouldn't use it outside of very specific MC builds.

 

[Nikanuur]

Oh hai, I just wanted to politely remind you, that, you know, you play a game against evil beings. With evil. During evil things and stuff. At evil places, you know

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah Angel is just easy mode.

 

[ArchAngel]

Oh hai, I just wanted to politely remind you, that, you know, you play a game against evil beings. With evil. During evil things and stuff. At evil places, you know

I like the Longsword Defender more. Gives you +3 to attack when you use a shield, which is basically a free Power Attack. It let paladin chick do good damage with Mythic Power attack even when not using Smite Evil.

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Nikanuur]

Is it only me or is the post showing only the unclickable Twitter icon? Could you perhaps repost please?

 

[Yosharian]

Is it only me or is the post showing only the unclickable Twitter icon? Could you perhaps repost please?

It's you