Pathfinder Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous Pre-DLC Thread [GO TO NEW THREAD]

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I agree with you that ray attack Trickster makes the most sense, but that doesn't mean they can't do DC casting. I'd say they do it better than Lich. CNS is a big deal. From a control standpoint, with the Sorcerer Arcane bloodline, any spell with a non-instantaneous duration could be extended, persistent, and get +1 DC while occupying its base spell level. That's not quite an Azatas Favorable Magic, but its pretty damn good.

 

[ArchAngel]

So, Charging Angel, if interested:
Race: Kitsune, obviously.

Level Progression:
Level 1: Monk – Sohei (Erastil): Combat Expertise, Spirited Charge
Level 2: Gendarme (Cockatrice): Weapon Focus
Level 3: Cleric: Boon Companion
Level 4: Cleric
Level 5: Cleric: Outflank
Level 6: Gendarme: Dazzling Display
Level 7: Cleric: Shatter Defenses
Level 8: Cleric
Level 9: Cleric: Trip
Level 10: Cleric
Level 11: Cleric: Improved Critical
Level 12: Mutation Warrior: Pummeling Style
Level 13: Mutation Warrior: Vulpine Pounce, Pummeling Bully
Level 14: Mutation Warrior
Level 15: Mutation Warrior: Metamagic: Extend, Greater Trip
Level 16: Mutation Warrior
Level 17: Gendarme Skill Focus: World OR Arcana, Weapon Specialization
Level 18: Loremaster Rogue Secret: Opportunist OR Combat Secret: Great Cleaving Finish
Level 19: Monk - Sohei: Fury's Fall, Indomitable Mount
Level 20: Monk - Sohei

Mythic abilities:
1. Mythic Charge
2. Impossible Domain: Travel
3. Domain Zealot
4. Improved Critical Mythic + Abolish X.. Guile?
5. Enduring Spells
6. Greater Enduring Spells + Everlasting Flame
7. Ever Ready
8. Mythic Weapon Spec/Mythic Trip
9. Mythical Beast/Last Stand/Leading Strikes
10. Mythic Weapon Spec/Mythic Trip

Weapon: Big, bad two-hander. My recommendations are greataxes or falchions.

Make sure to pick Outflank on your horse at level 7.

This looks like a lot of lost BAB. Also so many classes that don't level up your companion... No power attack from what I can see which is the biggest damage bonus with a two handed build (with Mythic Power Attack). Especially if you got a high crit weapon where power attack damage gets multiplied.
And why Kitsune? Its bonuses are bad for warrior types. Also animals cannot pick up Outflank unless you raise their Intelligence to 3. So mention that in your guide.

Thank you for your comments.

The build does loose 3 BAB. Could reduce it to 2 without Loremaster (and have a level 20 mount as well), but IMO the special feats Loremaster can give you (even Trickster unique feats - maybe a bug!) are neat and likely worth it. Also 1 more caster level sooner means earlier access to some OP spells.
It compensates a little with Weapon Training with Gloves (+3), extra 1-2 FullBAB attacks (Sohei Flurry + possibly Ki extra attack), bonus Full BAB AoO attacks on most enemies from Trip (honestly I don't remember a lot of enemies that wouldn't be tripped so far). And of course with cleric/angel buffs. Plenty of Divine Powers + Divine Favors, Freightening Aspects, some Eaglesouls eventually or maybe also Avenger's Blessings. Also Guarded Hearth when really needed.

Cleric with Animal Domain does level the AC, but theoretically with stunted progression. However with Boon Companion the build should still achieve a level 19 mount (20 if no Loremaster but another mount class). Animal companion levelling is wonky. My character currently is level 15, with 8 levels in cleric and 4 in Mutation Warrior and his horse is also level 15.

Power Attack was not taken intentionally. I prefer to hit more the enemies that pose a challenge, rather then make fewer bigger hits. I find that particularly further iterative attacks don't have a lot of AB advantage. Also using Power Attack would nerf the CMB for Trip attempts.

Kitsune was taken for Vulpine Pounce, obviously. Having 7-9 Spirited Charge attacks (with 7-8 Mythic Charge triggers rocks!). Theoretically can be emulated with a Skald, but I prefer the freedom of having pounce always active and not needing to be in song range. Also to open combat with a charge/attack flat-footed enemies. Plus I use Dirge of Doom until Freightening Aspect comes online (which is late).

I amended the Int info for Outflank on AC.

I am confused how you get lvl 19 A. companion. Mutation Warrior does not get AC, I am not sure for Monk Sohei, and Loremaster does not for sure. I don't even know what is this Gendarme, some Cavalier subclass?

 

[mediocrepoet]

I am confused how you get lvl 19 A. companion. Mutation Warrior does not get AC, I am not sure for Monk Sohei, and Loremaster does not for sure. I don't even know what is this Gendarme, some Cavalier subclass?

Sohei gets animal companion, their whole deal is being a mounted monk. Gendarme is the mounted charging cavalier subclass.

 

[Haplo]

I am confused how you get lvl 19 A. companion. Mutation Warrior does not get AC, I am not sure for Monk Sohei, and Loremaster does not for sure. I don't even know what is this Gendarme, some Cavalier subclass?

Sohei gets animal companion, their whole deal is being a mounted monk. Gendarme is the mounted charging cavalier subclass.

That is correct. Although clearly the levelling of ACs on multiclass companions is also wonky/buggy. In theory the build should loose 9 (5 Mutation Warrior + 3 Cleric levels + 1 Loremaster) - 4 (Boon) = 5 AC levels.
But that is not the case. It looses only one. Maybe Boon is counted separately for each class?

Still strange, as not taking Loremaster and going with an AC class results in a level 20 AC.


Anyway, I also have a Sacred Huntsmaster variant (any Animal Companion, needs 1 less Mythic Ability to function well), that is not destined to be played as Angel (no merging spellbooks), but should work pretty well as Legend (Cavalier level 20 x4 charges would be sweet! ...and even better with Trickster crits, I guess), Aeon (Bane stacking isn't the best thing since sliced bread... but not shabby either... and dispels are helpful vs tough enemies), Demon (kinda awesome.... but limit of 2-3-4 times per rest kinda sucks), Trickster (guess would need to change some feats/skip main char tripping then) or even Lich.
That one would sound more "legit" due to full AC progression on Sacred Huntsmaster - although it still uses Mutation Warrior 5 and likely Loremaster - and ends with AC level 20.

 

[ga♥]

Using animal companions, especially the one that don't start as small, if you don't mount them and you use RTwP is a pain in the ass with all the path blocking. In my 2nd play I ditched them all together, and no regrets exept the less weight I could carry.

Also honestly the fact they can use bracers, belts and stuff made for "humanoids" makes no sense (or that they can use trickery on locks and traps wtf).

 

[ArchAngel]

Using animal companions, especially the one that don't start as small, if you don't mount them and you use RTwP is a pain in the ass with all the path blocking. In my 2nd play I ditched them all together, and no regrets exept the less weight I could carry.

Also honestly the fact they can use bracers, belts and stuff made for "humanoids" makes no sense (or that they can use trickery on locks and traps wtf).

Most magical items in D&D resize automatically to fit the wearer. Only armors and weapons don't. Still having an AC with a cloak and a hat would look hilarious.

 

[ArchAngel]

I am confused how you get lvl 19 A. companion. Mutation Warrior does not get AC, I am not sure for Monk Sohei, and Loremaster does not for sure. I don't even know what is this Gendarme, some Cavalier subclass?

Sohei gets animal companion, their whole deal is being a mounted monk. Gendarme is the mounted charging cavalier subclass.

That is correct. Although clearly the levelling of ACs on multiclass companions is also wonky/buggy. In theory the build should loose 9 (5 Mutation Warrior + 3 Cleric levels + 1 Loremaster) - 4 (Boon) = 5 AC levels.
But that is not the case. It looses only one. Maybe Boon is counted separately for each class?

Still strange, as not taking Loremaster and going with an AC class results in a level 20 AC.


Anyway, I also have a Sacred Huntsmaster variant, that is not destined to be played as Angel (no merging spellbooks), but should work pretty well as Legend (Cavalier level 20 x4 charges would be sweet! ...and even better with Trickster crits, I guess), Aeon (Bane stacking isn't the best thing since sliced bread... but not shabby either... and dispels are helpful vs tough enemies), Demon (kinda awesome.... but limit of 2-3-4 times per rest kinda sucks), Trickster (guess would need to change some feats/skip main char tripping then) or even Lich.
That one would sound more "legit" due to full AC progression on Sacred Huntsmaster - although it still uses Mutation Warrior 5 and likely Loremaster - and ends with AC level 20.

Ok, that explains it :D
I wonder if AC can go over lvl 20 if you are playing Legend.

As for Loremaster, that thing is busted for Nenio. In all my runs Nenio has Improved Evasion because of it :D
Caster Sosiel can also grab Loremaster and he can get the same. Witch powers are basically useless in later levels so it is not a big loss if you also take Loremaster for Ember. Not sure for Daeron, his Oracle powers are actually useful. And Camelia's class basic choice makes her a powerful melee character and Loremaster prerequisites and levels might hurt her (Although I always take at least one metamagic with witch power so you only need to waste one more perk and 5 skill points).

 

[Haplo]

I do not think they can. Not that I tested it.

 

[ga♥]

Camelia multiclassing depends on your mythic path. People going +2 of instictual warrior on here seems good, but you lose some AC from her bone/air armor if you use it.
If you are angel with merged spellbook, you would give her buckler +7 AC with magic vestment, shield (which seems a bug, but still), and that's pretty much unbeatable so rather keep her pure.

 

[ArchAngel]

Camelia multiclassing depends on your mythic path. People going +2 of instictual warrior on here seems good, but you lose some AC from her bone/air armor if you use it.
If you are angel with merged spellbook, you would give her buckler +7 AC with magic vestment, shield (which seems a bug, but still), and that's pretty much unbeatable so rather keep her pure.

Hmm I never took bonus spirits that would give her that armor, that is not a bad idea. But I did take once Animal spirit and she got a nice Smilodon at high levels to mount. In TB mounted combat is bugged and you get a free pounce as a rider as the game spends a move action with your AC to move you to enemy and you then get your full attack. So it is a nice DPS boost for Camelia (and Smilodon deals decent damage on its own)

 

[ga♥]

yeah well, you can't have both, so either animal companion or "archmage armour without using any mythical ability" on her.

 

[Haplo]

Camelia multiclassing depends on your mythic path. People going +2 of instictual warrior on here seems good, but you lose some AC from her bone/air armor if you use it.
If you are angel with merged spellbook, you would give her buckler +7 AC with magic vestment, shield (which seems a bug, but still), and that's pretty much unbeatable so rather keep her pure.

Hmm I never took bonus spirits that would give her that armor, that is not a bad idea. But I did take once Animal spirit and she got a nice Smilodon at high levels to mount. In TB mounted combat is bugged and you get a free pounce as a rider as the game spends a move action with your AC to move you to enemy and you then get your full attack. So it is a nice DPS boost for Camelia (and Smilodon deals decent damage on its own)

Seems intentional to me. Of course, in Tabletop you'd need 14 BAB and at least 2 feats to achieve this.

Still, its not equal to Mounted Charge Pounce in crpg - as then with Spirited Charge all your damage is doubled (quadrupled if you're also level 20 Cavalier). Plus you get many bonuses: +2/+4 AB, Mythic Charge extra damage, possibly free Combat Maneuvers if Cavalier, possibly adding mount Strength if Sword Cavalier, armor bonus, boots bonus, possibly weapon bonus and so on....

 

[ArchAngel]

yeah well, you can't have both, so either animal companion or "archmage armour without using any mythical ability" on her.

Once you are mounted everyone ignores the rider so you don't need extra AC :D while you get a big boost in dps department and extra carry limit. Only trick is that your companion will not appear until you get another level in her class (unless they fixed that in the meantime).

 

[ArchAngel]

Camelia multiclassing depends on your mythic path. People going +2 of instictual warrior on here seems good, but you lose some AC from her bone/air armor if you use it.
If you are angel with merged spellbook, you would give her buckler +7 AC with magic vestment, shield (which seems a bug, but still), and that's pretty much unbeatable so rather keep her pure.

Hmm I never took bonus spirits that would give her that armor, that is not a bad idea. But I did take once Animal spirit and she got a nice Smilodon at high levels to mount. In TB mounted combat is bugged and you get a free pounce as a rider as the game spends a move action with your AC to move you to enemy and you then get your full attack. So it is a nice DPS boost for Camelia (and Smilodon deals decent damage on its own)

Seems intentional to me. Of course, in Tabletop you'd need 14 BAB and at least 2 feats to achieve this.

Still, its not equal to Mounted Charge Pounce in crpg - as then with Spirited Charge all your damage is doubled (quadrupled if you're also level 20 Cavalier). Plus you get many bonuses: +2/+4 AB, Mythic Charge extra damage, possibly free Combat Maneuvers if Cavalier, possibly adding mount Strength if Sword Cavalier, armor bonus, boots bonus, possibly weapon bonus and so on....

That is good if Spirited Charge was not buggy and worked when it should. My Mad dog barbarian mostly did damage because of pounce and mythic power attack, spirited charge rarely worked and when it did it was always piercing damage no matter what weapon you used and as a result was resisted by some enemies.
But in PnP it only works with Lances and piercing weapons, it does not work with any weapons. It is too good in WotR. Probably better to not abuse it unless you play on impossible difficulty or something.

 

[ga♥]

Btw a nice build for Seelah is pala 14/1 sf/1 crossblooded sorcerer/4DD, with pumping charisma at every level stat increase. She has "shield focus" which will go to waste, but still.

 

[Haplo]

Camelia multiclassing depends on your mythic path. People going +2 of instictual warrior on here seems good, but you lose some AC from her bone/air armor if you use it.
If you are angel with merged spellbook, you would give her buckler +7 AC with magic vestment, shield (which seems a bug, but still), and that's pretty much unbeatable so rather keep her pure.

Hmm I never took bonus spirits that would give her that armor, that is not a bad idea. But I did take once Animal spirit and she got a nice Smilodon at high levels to mount. In TB mounted combat is bugged and you get a free pounce as a rider as the game spends a move action with your AC to move you to enemy and you then get your full attack. So it is a nice DPS boost for Camelia (and Smilodon deals decent damage on its own)

Seems intentional to me. Of course, in Tabletop you'd need 14 BAB and at least 2 feats to achieve this.

Still, its not equal to Mounted Charge Pounce in crpg - as then with Spirited Charge all your damage is doubled (quadrupled if you're also level 20 Cavalier). Plus you get many bonuses: +2/+4 AB, Mythic Charge extra damage, possibly free Combat Maneuvers if Cavalier, possibly adding mount Strength if Sword Cavalier, armor bonus, boots bonus, possibly weapon bonus and so on....

That is good if Spirited Charge was not buggy and worked when it should. My Mad dog barbarian mostly did damage because of pounce and mythic power attack, spirited charge rarely worked and when it did it was always piercing damage no matter what weapon you used and as a result was resisted by some enemies.
But in PnP it only works with Lances and piercing weapons, it does not work with any weapons. It is too good in WotR. Probably better to not abuse it unless you play on impossible difficulty or something.

I agree its strong. But I don't see anything in Pathfinder rules limiting it to piercing weapons:
"When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance)."
So its simply even stronger with lances, not limited to them.

Also enemies with major Piercing resistance? Have not met them yet, I think. Incorporeal maybe, but they ignore 50% of all physical damage (unless you have Ghost Touch).

On the other hand, I guess using Pounce in general (and even more so Vulpine Pounce) with mounted charge is quite cheesy indeed....

 

[ArchAngel]

Camelia multiclassing depends on your mythic path. People going +2 of instictual warrior on here seems good, but you lose some AC from her bone/air armor if you use it.
If you are angel with merged spellbook, you would give her buckler +7 AC with magic vestment, shield (which seems a bug, but still), and that's pretty much unbeatable so rather keep her pure.

Hmm I never took bonus spirits that would give her that armor, that is not a bad idea. But I did take once Animal spirit and she got a nice Smilodon at high levels to mount. In TB mounted combat is bugged and you get a free pounce as a rider as the game spends a move action with your AC to move you to enemy and you then get your full attack. So it is a nice DPS boost for Camelia (and Smilodon deals decent damage on its own)

Seems intentional to me. Of course, in Tabletop you'd need 14 BAB and at least 2 feats to achieve this.

Still, its not equal to Mounted Charge Pounce in crpg - as then with Spirited Charge all your damage is doubled (quadrupled if you're also level 20 Cavalier). Plus you get many bonuses: +2/+4 AB, Mythic Charge extra damage, possibly free Combat Maneuvers if Cavalier, possibly adding mount Strength if Sword Cavalier, armor bonus, boots bonus, possibly weapon bonus and so on....

That is good if Spirited Charge was not buggy and worked when it should. My Mad dog barbarian mostly did damage because of pounce and mythic power attack, spirited charge rarely worked and when it did it was always piercing damage no matter what weapon you used and as a result was resisted by some enemies.
But in PnP it only works with Lances and piercing weapons, it does not work with any weapons. It is too good in WotR. Probably better to not abuse it unless you play on impossible difficulty or something.

I agree its strong. But I don't see anything in Pathfinder rules limiting it to piercing weapons:
"When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance)."
So its simply even stronger with lances, not limited to them.

Also enemies with major Piercing resistance? Have not met them yet, I think. Incorporeal maybe, but they ignore 50% of all physical damage (unless you have Ghost Touch).

On the other hand, I guess using Pounce in general (and even more so Vulpine Pounce) with mounted charge is quite cheesy indeed....

Ah you are right but in D&D you cannot pounce with mounted combat as the horse is charging, not you.

But I don't mind Pounce abilities being so available in this "Mythic campaign" . In D&D 3.5 Epic levels, fighters at lvl 21 could take Epic Charge which was basically Pounce and it was only thing that made them useful for such campaigns.
It is a big shame there is no such Mythic ability in this game and that we all need to fuck around with Pounce abilities.

 

[Haplo]

Well there's also Vital Strike line standard actions as an alternative to Pounce. And now mounts granting Full Attack after movement too. So there are 3 viable, broad paths for melees. Having access to none of them must suck in Turn Based, though.
At least when you've tried some combination of those.

 

[ArchAngel]

Well there's also Vital Strike line standard actions as an alternative to Pounce. And now mounts granting Full Attack after movement too. So there are 3 viable, broad paths for melees. Having access to none of them must suck in Turn Based, though.
At least when you've tried some combination of those.

Vital is crap as it does nothing for being Hasted or other abilities that give multiple attacks or precision attacks. I learned that the hard way when I specialized Sosiel into it. Even with Mythic Vital Strike it is still subpar. It is only good vs high DR enemies. It works nice with Mythic Power Attack but you still lose a lot, especially if you got a high crit chance weapon.

Putting a character on a mount is probably only good solution for TB as even without a charge you get a "Pounce" ability but without a +2 charge bonus.
I think I am going to do that with Sosiel on this run, try to give him additional domain that lets him get a companion. So will Camila if I keep her in party. She does not really fit the Drizzt Trickster into Legend run. He starts as CN but will become CG by the end of it. Unlike the books he will ride Guenhwyvar into battle for the free pounce with his scimitar storm attacks.

 

[NJClaw]

Vital is crap as it does nothing for being Hasted or other abilities that give multiple attacks or precision attacks. I learned that the hard way when I specialized Sosiel into it. Even with Mythic Vital Strike it is still subpar. It is only good vs high DR enemies. It works nice with Mythic Power Attack but you still lose a lot, especially if you got a high crit chance weapon.

Sure, but it also lets you one-shot Deskari, so...

Once you deal almost 900 damage with a single hit (3000+ on a crit) and can cleave through all the enemies you have in range, why would you care for iterative attacks? But yeah, this only holds if they fixed Great Cleave, which I'm not sure of.

 

[ArchAngel]

Counting on 10% crit chance when you need it is not a good character plan/build LOL
Also where did you get that 1110 bonus damage? That is some angel bullshit? that 50% damage bonus or something?

Good luck getting this damage with non Angel. I mentioned Sosiel as one I did it with, he does not have access to any of this.

Ok the main advantage of Vital Strike over Mounted Combat is that you can use enlarge spells and you must use it to get a good boost to damage. With mounted combat you are stuck on normal size or you cannot use your mount.
And I did use Frightening form spell with Sosiel, used Mythic Power Attack and still did just about 130 non crit damage per hit (unless he rolled 1).

 

[NJClaw]

Counting on 10% crit chance when you need it is not a good character plan/build LOL

10%? You have to try to gimp yourself REALLY hard to only get a 10% crit chance in this game. If Brilliant Inspiration is still acting weird, with that and Ember's Fortune you roll 4 dice and pick the best, which means that even with the worst possible weapon to fish for crits, you still have a 35% chance with Improved Critical. Moreover, "when you need it", you can also add Sosiel's Touch of Luck to get to 40%. Using a more reasonable weapon (greatswords, bardiches, or heavy flails), those numbers become 60% (68% with Touch of Luck). With an optimal weapon for this (a falchion or a fauchard), it becomes 75% (83% with Touch of Luck).

But I was just shitposting, I only wanted an excuse to repost that screenshot.

Also where did you get that 1110 bonus damage? That is some angel bullshit? that 50% damage bonus or something?

Yeah, it's Abolish Guile. I think it applies to every demon in the game other than those slime omox guys. And yeah, I don't know how to reach these same numbers without the Angel's broken shit.

Ok the main advantage of Vital Strike over Mounted Combat is that you can use enlarge spells and you must use it to get a good boost to damage. With mounted combat you are stuck on normal size or you cannot use your mount.

I think you can still use enlarge spells if your mount is a horse. You get some weird visual bugs and your character assumes the form of a demonic centaur, but it works.

On my Angel playthrough, Vital Strike has been satisfying to use and it has carried me through (I think) 75% of the game. There still were times where full-attacking was better, but only due to Great Cleave not working properly and targeting already dead enemies with the bonus attacks. However, I wouldn't use it outside of very specific MC builds.

 

[Nikanuur]

Oh hai, I just wanted to politely remind you, that, you know, you play a game against evil beings. With evil. During evil things and stuff. At evil places, you know

 

[Yosharian]

Yeah Angel is just easy mode.

 

[ArchAngel]

Oh hai, I just wanted to politely remind you, that, you know, you play a game against evil beings. With evil. During evil things and stuff. At evil places, you know

I like the Longsword Defender more. Gives you +3 to attack when you use a shield, which is basically a free Power Attack. It let paladin chick do good damage with Mythic Power attack even when not using Smite Evil.