KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

[Zombra]

Grotesque, why no link to that Facebook thread?

 

[Shog-goth]

UnstableVoltage

I've a simple question, and It's not a provocation: what was exactly the rationale behind the choice of abandoning proper TUs for this "hybrid system"? I know It's a sort of rhetorical question, but I'd like very much an official and honest answer that could possibly convince me that was done for the greater good and not to streamline the game for mainstream public. Thank you.

 

[Mustawd]

I've a simple question, and It's not a provocation: what was exactly the rationale behind the choice of abandoning proper TUs for this "hybrid system"? I know It's a sort of rhetorical question, but I'd like very much an official and honest answer that could possibly convince me that was done for the greater good and not to streamline the game for mainstream public. Thank you.

Since developers seem to be responded here.

Why the hell you choose nuXcom action system ? Action Point system works perfectly well and it is not retarded as nuXcom system where you can't make small adjustment because "no". And no your willpower isn't action point system regardless of how you sell it precisely because of above reason.

Can't remember which Q&A it was (might have been first FB one), but Julian answered that TUs weren't used because some players don't want to do the math involved with them. It's basically the same explanation Firaxis gave when XCOM came out, but they mentioned they tried using TUs at the beginning and the play testers were having a hard time grasping it.

However, you need to remember that PP was figstarted specifically because the nuXCOMs were successful. So although extremely dissapointing to me, it was not a surprise that they went with the AP system as a base and modified it accordingly.

For the sake of butthurt, I present you an early XCOM build video (timestamped).

Spoiler

 

[Grotesque]

that missle flight animation is pure incline!

 

[Zombra]

Eh. Allocated TUs is effectively the same thing as "use your turn for overwatch". Yes XCOM way oversimplified it and it's not as fine grain here either, but it works. I don't see anything horribly wrong with the willpower system - yet - and it looks like it will make for interesting decision making, so I'm happy to give it a try.

 

[PanteraNera]

I kinda feel the same way regarding all the special abilities that are put on top of the 2 AP system. From my point of view it makes no real sense, first they dump TU's to go for 2 AP's move/move move/shoot and than bringing back another move and/or shoot in with special abilities. It feels not fluid nor elegant. I have no deeper knowledge of NuXCOM design-"philosophy" but I think one of the main-points for the 2 AP system was the cinematic move and shoot. With PP we lose (no lose to me) the move cinematic.
XCOM 2 in my book is just plain silly with all that special abilities, and "complex"/clunky in a bad way.

 

[Zombra]

XCOM 2 in my book is just plain silly with all that special abilities

I sort of don't get this. There are lots of complaints about how X-Com allowed you to do so many things, like snap shot, regular shot, or aimed shot, and XCOM doesn't allow you to do anything! but XCOM actually gives you tons of options on a character by character basis: free moves, sniper shots, suppression fire, double shots, etc. They just don't apply all abilities to all characters. It certainly has a different feel but complaining about having a variety of maneuvers seems weird amid so many complaints about not enough maneuvers.

 

[PanteraNera]

I sort of don't get this. There are lots of complaints about how X-Com allowed you to do so many things, like snap shot, regular shot, or aimed shot, and XCOM doesn't allow you to do anything! but XCOM actually gives you tons of options on a character by character basis: free moves, sniper shots, suppression fire, double shots, etc. They just don't apply all abilities to all characters. It certainly has a different feel but complaining about having a variety of maneuvers seems weird amid so many complaints about not enough maneuvers.

Totally get it, I really tried hard to like XCOM 2, because in theory it looked a lot better, I just didn't liked the gameplay. It just felt "superficial".
Hm, I think it is actually that XCOM 2 feels with all its abilities like a game and constantly reminds you of that, while X-COM had the simulation feeling all over it.
TU's feel just more fluid and coherent to me.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Eh. Allocated TUs is effectively the same thing as "use your turn for overwatch".

except the part where you can get multiple reaction shots if you end turn without moving

or the part where the number of TU you have left adds to the reaction chance

or the part where it compares your TU to the alien's TU

or the part where a character can first turn around if shot at and then open reaction fire if it has enough TU saved up to do both

but apart from all that yeah i guess its the same thing

 

[Zombra]

I just didn't like [XCOM] gameplay. It just felt "superficial".

I think you've kind of hit it on the head here. There's a lot of talk about "there are these very specific things I could do in X-Com and I can't do in XCOM and there are these very specific things XCOM did that X-Com did not do ..." I feel like what's needed is to step back from the trees and look at the forest. More than any of the little ingredients that made up X-Com, I'm seeing that what people truly loved about it was deep simulationism. Imo, XCOM was and is a perfectly fun game, but ... it's a board game. I think this is what we need to hammer on: trying to make Phoenix Point more than a board game.

 

[PanteraNera]

That's why my favorite parts of EU/EW and X2 have always been the first few missions, like Gatecrasher. Rookies versus sectoids/troopers, no special cheat abilities, just pure positioning and flanking tactics. Feels good man. Once you get into the late game, everyone is some kind of anime superhero space marine zipping across the battlefield doing crazy stunts and trick shots. Whereas late game OG, it was just you being on par tech-wise with the aliens.

Yes, when I started playing XCOM EU/EW it was the same for me, I actually thought, well that is rather quite enjoyable. I actually finished XCOM EU/EW which is super rare for me with "newer games" (newer games being 2000+ lol). I enjoyed XCOM 2 WOTC in the beginning as well, but it got silly rather quickly.
[storyfag detected]What really didn't helped was that I actually couldn't stand the story, XCOM started okayish, getting worse the longer you played. XCOM 2 sucked pretty much right from the start.

I think you've kind of hit it on the head here. There's a lot of talk about "there are these very specific things I could do in X-Com and I can't do in XCOM and there are these very specific things XCOM did that X-Com did not do ..." I feel like what's needed is to step back from the trees and look at the forest. More than any of the little ingredients that made up X-Com, I'm seeing that what people truly loved about it was deep simulationism. Imo, XCOM was and is a perfectly fun game, but ... it's a board game. I think this is what we need to hammer on: trying to make Phoenix Point more than a board game.

Yes you nailed it there, I can totally agree with that.

 

[Jaedar]

Whereas late game OG, it was just you being on par tech-wise with the aliens.

I always did feel that clearing out the entire map with mind-controlled aliens and blaster bombs from 2 blocks away was very fair and on par with what the aliens could do.

Sarcasm aside, in OG the superness of your soldiers all came from the tech they carried. In firaxcom it's the humans themselves that gather super powers.

 

[Grotesque]

So how was the live stream?
Any interesting questions were asked?
Any comments on UI hybridization?

 

[Mustawd]

sucked. Better off watching the video I asked questions about a few posts back.

 

[luinthoron]

Since developers seem to be responded here.

Why the hell you choose nuXcom action system ? Action Point system works perfectly well and it is not retarded as nuXcom system where you can't make small adjustment because "no". And no your willpower isn't action point system regardless of how you sell it precisely because of above reason.

Can't tell if trolling or just stupid... Seeing how this post comes right after we'd finished discussing how the PP hybrid system is exactly not what you claim, and the implicit TUs here do allow you to do small adjustments and the similar blue border on the UI simply indicates how far you can move while still being able to use the chosen weapon/item (and if you move less, you can still continue moving after doing that). The willpower-based abilities come extra on top of this.

 

[Mustawd]

He just read a few posts and didn't follow the thread I gather.

Overall, I had fun with nuXCOM. Although it's far away from x-com, it's still a fun game IMO. It's got some streamline issues, sure. However, the changes supposedly made in PP are a lot more incline than if they just aped nuxcom. It's as if someone gave them nuXCOM and said "ok, make this better and more in line with x-com".

Love the added strategy layer. Love the music. Love the x-com like tweaks to movement. Love ability to use willpower for various thing s like overwatch or specific location damage. PP just adds so much more layers to nuXCOM. I'm a huge TU fanboi. Go back in this thread and you'll hear me bitching about no TUs. But regardless, I think PP can be kind of an inclined nuXCOM. Ofc, those expecting x-com will be disappointed. Part of it is the x-com like atmosphere. Another part ios the added complexity of the strategic layer.

IMO, this is like dating you're ex girlfriends sister, and accepting the fact that, though related, they are different people who bring different things to the table.

Spoiler

For you kinky folks, this also could mean she has a benis. Just saying.

 

[Perkel]

Since developers seem to be responded here.

Why the hell you choose nuXcom action system ? Action Point system works perfectly well and it is not retarded as nuXcom system where you can't make small adjustment because "no". And no your willpower isn't action point system regardless of how you sell it precisely because of above reason.

Can't tell if trolling or just stupid... Seeing how this post comes right after we'd finished discussing how the PP hybrid system is exactly not what you claim, and the implicit TUs here do allow you to do small adjustments and the similar blue border on the UI simply indicates how far you can move while still being able to use the chosen weapon/item (and if you move less, you can still continue moving after doing that). The willpower-based abilities come extra on top of this.

Can you shoot --> move --> shoot --> move ?

 

[ArchAngel]

Since developers seem to be responded here.

Why the hell you choose nuXcom action system ? Action Point system works perfectly well and it is not retarded as nuXcom system where you can't make small adjustment because "no". And no your willpower isn't action point system regardless of how you sell it precisely because of above reason.

Can't tell if trolling or just stupid... Seeing how this post comes right after we'd finished discussing how the PP hybrid system is exactly not what you claim, and the implicit TUs here do allow you to do small adjustments and the similar blue border on the UI simply indicates how far you can move while still being able to use the chosen weapon/item (and if you move less, you can still continue moving after doing that). The willpower-based abilities come extra on top of this.

Can you shoot --> move --> shoot --> move ?

No, but you can shoot and move; move and shoot: move, shoot and move. Maybe some characters ways to shoot more than once using willpower

 

[Perkel]

"No it is like TU system !!!!"

Proceeds to show it is exact NuXcom system with bunch of bollocks attached to it

 

[Darth Roxor]

TUs is effectively the same thing as "use your turn to shoot once". Yes XCOM way oversimplified it and it's not as fine grain here either, but it works.

 

[Zombra]

Can you shoot --> move --> shoot --> move ?

In one turn? No. But there are more turns in PP.

 

[34scell]

Seeing as the game models individual bullets, they should let you make fewer shots with automatic weapons in exchange for more accuracy and a snapshot for when you've moved too far for a regular shot.

 

[PanteraNera]

I always did feel that clearing out the entire map with mind-controlled aliens and blaster bombs from 2 blocks away was very fair and on par with what the aliens could do.

Sarcasm aside, in OG the superness of your soldiers all came from the tech they carried. In firaxcom it's the humans themselves that gather super powers.

Well the difference here is:

Blaster bombs drawbacks
- hard to use on terror sites (civilian casualties)
- if over used destroyed alien corpses and equipment (lessens income)
- will destroy reactors and other equipment on map on UFO sites and alien bases(lessens income, less materials for crafting)
- if used frequently must be crafted which costs 3 elerium (elerium being rare, especially if using blaster bombs inside of UFO's; and also needed as fuel for your airships)

I would say that these drawbacks actually balanced it, additionally as has been said here, the aliens could use them as well.

Personally I always used blaster bombs mainly as a fail-safe-device, if my soldiers missed a shoot and wouldn't survive the next alien turn.
Also I used it on battleship missions to enter them from above.

Superhero-abilities in NuXCOM had no drawbacks and were imho also silly.

 

[Joined on the 4th of July]

The UI is nowhere near final. There are ongoing discussions within the design team about the best way the UI should be handled.

I hope you realize that a lot of people like to play games on tablet: mobile platforms' market share is almost half of the global video games market, dwarfing PC platforms' piddly barely over 20%. Phoenix Point is a strategy game and that's one of the top genres on both Android and iOS, both which are supported by Unity engine your studio uses.

It's time to add touch interface support.

 

[Perkel]

The UI is nowhere near final. There are ongoing discussions within the design team about the best way the UI should be handled.

I hope you realize that a lot of people like to play games on tablet: mobile platforms' market share is almost half of the global video games market, dwarfing PC platforms' piddly barely over 20%. Phoenix Point is a strategy game and that's one of the top genres on both Android and iOS, both which are supported by Unity engine your studio uses.

It's time to add touch interface support.

And they should add lootboxes at that.