Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

KickStarter Phoenix Point - the new game from X-COM creator Julian Gollop

PanteraNera

Arcane
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
1,062
But Xcom 2 sold not worse than Xcom EU even with no empty market anymore and with all the fanbase knowledge that it would be more casual than the classics. How do you explain this?
Because they established a fan-base, that is why it didn't sold worse, XCOM:EU was a success.
Why do you think that there are so many games that go on forever, like Call of Duty, Battlefield?
XCOM 2 was not for the fans of the original game, it was for the NuXCOM fans.

Also, the Fps Xcom was a total different dev, not Firaxis. They make only strategy games.
2k Games holds the copyright for XCOM not Firaxis.
They (2k) decide if something is generating enough money.
 

Taka-Haradin puolipeikko

Filthy Kalinite
Patron
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
20,726
Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Bubbles In Memoria
The problem is, for every single guy who dislikes Nuxcom style, there are 10 who likes it.

So why any dev or producer should try to please a minority?
Has anyone else, but Firaxis really succeeded with Nuxcom style?

XCOM: Enemy Unknown had massive advantage in name recognition; on both developer and franchise side and it came into practically empty market that hadn't seen release of major squad based tactics games in years.


But Xcom 2 sold not worse than Xcom EU even with no empty market anymore and with all the fanbase knowledge that it would be more casual than the classics. How do you explain this?

Also, the Fps Xcom was a total different dev, not Firaxis. They make only strategy games.

The problem is that a lot of people liked Nuxcom, even along old fans of the franchise.

If that is too much pain to deal with doesn't change the fact.

Nice dodge on my question.

Obviously XCOM 2 still had name recognition advantage. There's lots of people who pay attention to Firaxis games and there are enough people that wanted more of the same.
But can anyone else take that slice of market from them?

For the record I consider 1st X-com fun enough, but I still prefer to see game that would take more simulationist approach.
 

PanteraNera

Arcane
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
1,062
I recently beat it. Super fun game. Not x-com, but still very fun and good tactical game with some casualness that I wish wasn't there.
True shit. In fact NuXCOM 1 is one of the few newer games I actually finished, which is super rare for me.

Don't forget Shadowrun games used a similar AP/cover system.
Also true, loved Dragonfall and Hong Kong, bummer they went with Battletech instead of doing another Shadowrun.
 

Mazisky

Magister
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,082
Location
Rome, IT
But Xcom 2 sold not worse than Xcom EU even with no empty market anymore and with all the fanbase knowledge that it would be more casual than the classics. How do you explain this?

XCOM -> Owners: 3,521,988 ± 58,919

XCOM 2 -> Owners: 1,776,167 ± 41,913

Difference = minus 1,745,821 Millions

Lel, unfair and dishonest comparison, Xcom Eu have 4 years of timeframe advantage.

A honest comparison would be the 3,5 million of Xcom Eu with whatever Xcom 2 sales in 2022.
 

Stavrophore

Most trustworthy slavic man
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Aug 17, 2016
Messages
14,633
Location
don't identify with EU-NPC land
Strap Yourselves In
But Xcom 2 sold not worse than Xcom EU even with no empty market anymore and with all the fanbase knowledge that it would be more casual than the classics. How do you explain this?

XCOM -> Owners: 3,521,988 ± 58,919

XCOM 2 -> Owners: 1,776,167 ± 41,913

Difference = minus 1,745,821 Millions

Lel, unfair and dishonest comparison, Xcom Eu have 4 years of timeframe advantage.

A honest comparison would be the 3,5 million of Xcom Eu with whatever Xcom 2 sales in 2022.

Xcom 2 will sell very easily another 1 mil 1,5mil in the coming years when price of the whole bundle will drop to reasonable price. XCOM 2 despite the commercials, had quite a poor launch, with many bugs and performance issues. Hence lower sales.
 

Mazisky

Magister
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,082
Location
Rome, IT
But Xcom 2 sold not worse than Xcom EU even with no empty market anymore and with all the fanbase knowledge that it would be more casual than the classics. How do you explain this?

XCOM -> Owners: 3,521,988 ± 58,919

XCOM 2 -> Owners: 1,776,167 ± 41,913

Difference = minus 1,745,821 Millions

Lel, unfair and dishonest comparison, Xcom Eu have 4 years of timeframe advantage.

A honest comparison would be the 3,5 million of Xcom Eu with whatever Xcom 2 sales in 2022.

Xcom 2 will sell very easily another 1 mil 1,5mil in the coming years when price of the whole bundle will drop to reasonable price. XCOM 2 despite the commercials, had quite a poor launch, with many bugs and performance issues. Hence lower sales.

So, it is reasonable to say that that Xcom 1 and 2 sales are pretty similar.

1,5 million in the first 2 years and 3 millions over 6 years from release.
 

Shog-goth

Elder Thing
Patron
Joined
Feb 23, 2018
Messages
621
Location
R'lyeh
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Lel, unfair and dishonest comparison, Xcom Eu have 4 years of timeframe advantage.
If those who played the first liked It so much, as you assume, there is no need to wait 4 years for the second to reach similar sales. Look at whatever FIFA or COD for a comparison.
 

Zombra

An iron rock in the river of blood and evil
Patron
Joined
Jan 12, 2004
Messages
11,843
Location
Black Goat Woods !@#*%&^
Make the Codex Great Again! RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex Year of the Donut Codex+ Now Streaming! Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Hey UnstableVoltage, I don't want to beat a dead horse here but I have something new to say on the subject of controllers. Please hear me out.

You might be getting data from out there about how PC users use controllers for gaming. I do too sometimes. But the question you should be asking isn't "Do PC gamers use controllers?" but "Why do PC gamers use controllers?" It's not because we like them better. It's because some games we play are console ports that were designed to be played with controllers.

So make sure your data isn't asking whether doods have controllers - a lot of us do, but that doesn't mean anything. Make sure it's asking what kind of UI PC gamers prefer when playing sophisticated PC-only games.
 

Jimmious

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
5,132
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I also use a controller with my Steam Link in order to play on my big TV lying on my couch.
Best for co-op too, for games that support split-screen or shared screen (like D:OS1/2 or Magicka etc)
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
21,344
I also use a controller with my Steam Link in order to play on my big TV lying on my couch.
Best for co-op too, for games that support split-screen or shared screen (like D:OS1/2 or Magicka etc)
So you are part of the problem :P
 

Jimmious

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
5,132
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I also use a controller with my Steam Link in order to play on my big TV lying on my couch.
Best for co-op too, for games that support split-screen or shared screen (like D:OS1/2 or Magicka etc)
So you are part of the problem :P
Maybe?
I don't require games to have controller based UI though..
But I do appreciate when they a) have couch co-op and b)have some kind of controller support

For single player, strategy/tactical games like PP, I don't care about controllers for example
 

luinthoron

Learned
Joined
Apr 24, 2017
Messages
263
Location
Estonia
But the question you should be asking isn't "Do PC gamers use controllers?" but "Why do PC gamers use controllers?" It's not because we like them better. It's because some games we play are console ports that were designed to be played with controllers.
While I agree that this is too often the case, it does not explain the people who have been specifically asking for PP to have controller support. There sadly seems to be a growing number of people who want to use controllers for every game on the PC as well.
 

Galdred

Studio Draconis
Patron
Developer
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
4,496
Location
Middle Empire
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The problem is, for every single guy who dislikes Nuxcom style, there are 10 who likes it.

So why any dev or producer should try to please a minority?
Has anyone else, but Firaxis really succeeded with Nuxcom style?

XCOM: Enemy Unknown had massive advantage in name recognition; on both developer and franchise side and it came into practically empty market that hadn't seen release of major squad based tactics games in years.

Besides one could point to success of both Divinity: Original Sins that action points combined with simulationist approach to environments doesn't doom game into being niche product for small audience.
Though those games also have other things going for them.
It really depends on what one would call NuXCOM style, and what we'd call success.
If NuXCOM = Boardgamey Geoscape with "crisis" cards to solve (1 mission out of 3) + tactical layer. I don't think there has been any other NuXCOM style game, and I follow the genre closely.

If it only refers to 2 AP, then most DnD Turn Based games falls under this category.
If we refer to 2 AP + cover, then SRR would be a good exemple indeed.
Mario + Rabid kingdom battles seems to have been well received actually (http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ttle_drives_positive_switch_sales_for_ubisoft).
Hard West and Halfway have worked OK given that they were done by team with no brand recognition.

Actually, catering to minority is a very sound strategy, but for a small studio, as you face much less competition than when chasing against the next big thing.

Edit: Massive Chalice might be the example of nu-XCOM clone failure, but the game had a lot of other issues, some of the rooted in its core design (for better or worse, nu-XCOM was a game trying to make you attached to your soldier, so having them die of old age after 5 battles must be a great idea!)
 
Last edited:

Israfael

Arcane
Joined
Sep 21, 2012
Messages
3,792
Yeah, I can remember several recent examples when the developers (not necessarily gamedev ones) stopped caring about the "5%" (as Opera CM put it) and tried to cater to a 'wider audience' which predictably resulted in old users abandoning the franchise for good and new audience completely ignoring it as there are much more marketed and visible products now competing with it. Also, there's a line where a self-contained and Kantian "Ding an sich" game ends and a for-profit product begins.
 

PanteraNera

Arcane
Joined
Nov 7, 2014
Messages
1,062
Why do I have a feeling Gollop will learn the hard way what "market saturation" really means? :)
Cause you are one of the few people that actually see's that Gollop has really put himself in a bad situation in trying to please fans of the old game and NuXCOM fans (with the limited resources he has).

But hey, you are just a dumbfuck as anyone else that says anything bad about PP, go away, PP is not what you want, a 1:1 copy of UFO:EU!!!!11111
[that obviously is sarcasm, just for the retards that need a INT 2-roll to understand]
 

Grotesque

±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Patron
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 16, 2012
Messages
9,403
Divinity: Original Sin Divinity: Original Sin 2
"Hello!

I'm Julian Gollop, the designer of the original X-COM series.

Now I'm returning to the genre that I created - turn-based tactics, world based strategy and a terrifying alien menace.

In the near future, Earth is devastated by Pandora virus released from melting permafrost.
Human civilization is reduced to warring factions and isolated havens.

You play the role of a leader of a small group of soldiers, scientists and engineers brought together
by the Phoenix project, an organization prepared to protect Earth in a time of peril.
The pandora virus incorporates human and animal DNA to create horrific mutations.
You'll face a constant evolving threat that will mutate and adapt to your tactics.
The intelligence of these new hybrids will present you with new challanges in every battle.

You will also face huge and terrifying monsters that require tactical thinking and coordination to bring down.

The geoscape returns as your strategic view with even more detail and importance.
Aliens operate under cover of a dark microbial mist rolling across the surface of the globe, harboring all manner of horrors.
They control the sea, you control the skies and you fight for the land.
Interceptions take on a whole new dimension with gargantuan alien walkers that require a combination of vehicles and special squads to bring them down.

But you don't have to just contend with aliens. Different human factions control numerous havens, resources and technology.
As the leader of the Phoenix group, you'll have to negociate, barter, make alliances or war with these factions in order to further your cause.
With a large varieties of mission objectives, destructible battlefields and a dynamic world, Phoenix Point will take the genre to a whole new level.

I founded Snapshot games three years ago, a year later we released our first title, the critically acclaimed Chaos Reborn.
I have assembled a highly talented team of developers at our ??? studio and we have been working on Phoenix Point for a year.
Now we need your help to make it one of the greatest strategy games ever made.

Please support our campaign and join us for the ride.

*batteries for controllers not included "


UnstableVoltage
I am sorry we schmucks that saw Gollop's promise to take his genre to a whole new level and imagined X-COM on steroids^3 didn't also fancied that between the pitched lines that meant catering to nuxcom enthusiasts to a such high degree that you brought yourselves down to copying that game's style, designing a UI with controller support in mind and copying the UI even to the color scheme.

And god knows what other shit you'll pull behind the reasoning and the excuse that "hardcore X-COM fans now are in their 40's, have kids to feed and utilities to pay and constitute only 1#% of our targeted market!"
At least the whoring with the UI and art style blew up in your face so hard that maybe got you with one foot on the ground.

The coup de grace for PP would be if Firaxis decides to launch yet another expansion to their game (there is at least one down the barrel) around when PP also launches.
Because then a rabid X-COM undesirable fanboi that can identify Gollop's mugshot from a thousand others will increase in market value hundredfold. :)
 
Last edited:

flyingjohn

Arcane
Joined
May 14, 2012
Messages
3,199
I wonder of how much chaos reborn failure lead to this "reaching out for da big moneyz".(sub 200k on steamspy)
I guess i can't blame him after failing to make a financial sucess for years.
But with kicstarter he could have actually done something to cater to hardocre fans while making money.All he needed to do was lover the budget so that 2 million can get him something.The hardcore crowd doesn't care about graphics while nuxcom fans can never be pleased with sub aaa production values.
Oh and i guarantee a new xcom expansion will be coming soon to bury this game chance of success even more.

Also what is their angle on marketing this?
Game journalist are useless and streamers prefer more action titles or rts games compared to tbs.And if semi popular streamers that do play tbs games decide to play this,all they will get is probably just unfavorable comparison to nuxcom.
 

Mazisky

Magister
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,082
Location
Rome, IT
The coup de grace for PP would be if Firaxis decides to launch yet another expansion to their game (there is at least one down the barrel) around when PP also launches.
Because then a rabid X-COM undesirable fanboi that can identify Gollop's mugshot from a thousand others will increase in value market hundredfold. :)

Calculations lead to Xcom 2 2nd expansion release on September and PP on decemeber. Dunno if it's better or worse for PP
 
Joined
Feb 20, 2018
Messages
1,006
Sorry guys but I have a life outside of games... well okay I have a job outside of games at least. I work 12 - 16 hours a day. When I'm done I want to play something I have a chance at actually getting into. I don't mind a bit of complexity but if it's just being done for the sake of it it becomes a slog and I feel like my limited amount of time isn't being respected because I have to go into minutiae to be effective at the game. The original Xcom was great at that for it's time but then I grew up and had shit to do. Phoenix Point looks great for me. It has the level of depth I want that nuXcom lacked. But Is still presented in a quick and expedient way. Call it ADHD if you want. I call it prioritising the means by which I'm able to afford gaming.
 

Viata

Arcane
Joined
Nov 11, 2014
Messages
9,894
Location
Water Play Catarinense
Human civilization is reduced to warring factions and isolated havens.

You play the role of a leader of a small group of soldiers, scientists and engineers brought together
by the Phoenix project, an organization prepared to protect Earth in a time of peril.

But you don't have to just contend with aliens. Different human factions control numerous havens, resources and technology.
As the leader of the Phoenix group, you'll have to negociate, barter, make alliances or war with these factions in order to further your cause.

I really think this is a bad idea.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom