Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[FreeKaner]

DOS is definitely not better than Dragonfall.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

D:OS was a crap RPG but a very enjoyable TB tactical game

 

[Parabalus]

D:OS was a crap RPG but a very enjoyable TB tactical game

You mean "teleport-into-lava" simulator.

 

[Jimmious]

Yeah it was all about combat. And also freedom of approach, what with the element interaction and so on.

 

[Roguey]

Where has Sawyer said that he hates BG2?

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/39...-in-fallouts-special-game-system/#entry526647

I really disliked most of the CNPCs, I really disliked being forced to go find Imoen, I really disliked the style of dialogue, and I really disliked being flooded with a million quests by every shmoe on the streets of Athkatla. Basically, there wasn't a whole lot I did like about it.

A lot of the problems I had with BG2 had more to do with specific design choices than with the overall style of the game. Avoiding (or ignoring) the problems I had with it while still having a similar style of game is pretty easy, IMO. Taking the specific things I listed a long time ago:

* CNPCs - Many of their introductions didn't sit well with me and I felt that there were too many who didn't have an equal amount of development given to them. While it was great that so many of them had a ton of quest content, I would have preferred a smaller list of companions with more attention to each one. This is what we said we were going to do at the start of the Kickstarter and it's what we're still planning to do.

* Being required to find/save Imoen - I didn't like it then and I still don't. I wouldn't make the player rescue an NPC with whom he or she may or may not have a positive relationship. It's a very specific plot point and easy to not do. I understand that a lot of people have no problem with the rescue plot, which is totally fine, but I don't think that particular plot point needs to be repeated in PE.

* Style of dialogue - I prefer naturalistic -- some would say "dry" -- dialogue. BG2's characters are much more expressive. This is a personal thing and I recognize that most players *don't* like the same style of dialogue that I do. What I strictly prefer and what I write and have others write are not the same thing. My characters in F:NV are still on the dry end of the spectrum (e.g. Arcade Gannon, Chief Hanlon, Joshua Graham), but there are plenty of more flamboyant, expressive characters in the game that other writers developed.

* Being flooded with quests in Athkatla - To be honest, I don't think is a controversial opinion! I've seen many other players say the same thing. BG2 has a crazy amount of quests, which is great, but the density in Athkatla was a little too crazy. I think those quests should have been spread out or staggered in some other way. PE is going to have more of an exploration focus than BG2 (though not as much as BG), so I believe that will help spread the content out more.

Even though I had those problems with BG2, my job as a lead designer and project director is not to create content that appeals specifically to my tastes. Obviously I would have a difficult time making a game that I *disliked*, but I have (and continue to) push for elements I feel that players will ultimately enjoy even if I'm not super thrilled about it. That's my job.

 

[Sacred82]

I really disliked most of the CNPCs, I really disliked being forced to go find Imoen, I really disliked the style of dialogue, and I really disliked being flooded with a million quests by every shmoe on the streets of Athkatla. Basically, there wasn't a whole lot I did like about it.

how many of those quests are actually being forced on you without you having a say in it

 

[J_C]

Where has Sawyer said that he hates BG2?

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/39...-in-fallouts-special-game-system/#entry526647

I really disliked most of the CNPCs, I really disliked being forced to go find Imoen, I really disliked the style of dialogue, and I really disliked being flooded with a million quests by every shmoe on the streets of Athkatla. Basically, there wasn't a whole lot I did like about it.

A lot of the problems I had with BG2 had more to do with specific design choices than with the overall style of the game. Avoiding (or ignoring) the problems I had with it while still having a similar style of game is pretty easy, IMO. Taking the specific things I listed a long time ago:

* CNPCs - Many of their introductions didn't sit well with me and I felt that there were too many who didn't have an equal amount of development given to them. While it was great that so many of them had a ton of quest content, I would have preferred a smaller list of companions with more attention to each one. This is what we said we were going to do at the start of the Kickstarter and it's what we're still planning to do.

* Being required to find/save Imoen - I didn't like it then and I still don't. I wouldn't make the player rescue an NPC with whom he or she may or may not have a positive relationship. It's a very specific plot point and easy to not do. I understand that a lot of people have no problem with the rescue plot, which is totally fine, but I don't think that particular plot point needs to be repeated in PE.

* Style of dialogue - I prefer naturalistic -- some would say "dry" -- dialogue. BG2's characters are much more expressive. This is a personal thing and I recognize that most players *don't* like the same style of dialogue that I do. What I strictly prefer and what I write and have others write are not the same thing. My characters in F:NV are still on the dry end of the spectrum (e.g. Arcade Gannon, Chief Hanlon, Joshua Graham), but there are plenty of more flamboyant, expressive characters in the game that other writers developed.

* Being flooded with quests in Athkatla - To be honest, I don't think is a controversial opinion! I've seen many other players say the same thing. BG2 has a crazy amount of quests, which is great, but the density in Athkatla was a little too crazy. I think those quests should have been spread out or staggered in some other way. PE is going to have more of an exploration focus than BG2 (though not as much as BG), so I believe that will help spread the content out more.

Even though I had those problems with BG2, my job as a lead designer and project director is not to create content that appeals specifically to my tastes. Obviously I would have a difficult time making a game that I *disliked*, but I have (and continue to) push for elements I feel that players will ultimately enjoy even if I'm not super thrilled about it. That's my job.

And here we have a list of some of the reasons why BG2 is superior to the Pillars games.

 

[Roguey]

You actually liked "save this character you don't necessarily care about to move the plot forward" and Gaider's pride parade?

 

[Lacrymas]

Finding Thaos isn't forced at all, it didn't require at least 3 ass-pulls (he causing the biawac, he appearing in your "memories" and the dryads telling you to go find him). The companions are terrible in PoE.

 

[Safav Hamon]

They're doing a PoE2 stream on the same day Indiana is announced? Hmmmkay...

Hopefully there's a trailer.

I thought they might sneak in a trailer at the game awards before the Project Indiana announcement.

 

[Parabalus]

Finding Thaos isn't forced at all, it didn't require at least 3 ass-pulls (he causing the biawac, he appearing in your "memories" and the dryads telling you to go find him).

Compared to saving Imoen it's pretty natural.

Though in Bg2 you can also justify going after Irenicus because "he knows how to unlock your power" to NPCs.

 

[HoboForEternity]

Deadfire > baldurs gate 2

 

[FreeKaner]

Why does it matter, dumpsterfire is actually unplayable. Because when you switch weaponsets your weapon disappears from your character model, I can't use a ranged weapon and have my sword at my belt. It will vanish as soon as I switch to my ranged weapon. This makes the game unplayable for me, in pillars1 you could have your trusty sabre at your belt at all times, here you just feel naked holding pistols or blunderbusses.

 

[Delterius]

are priests still boring buffers in deadfire

 

[Jimmious]

The companions are terrible in PoE.

I disagree. Most of them are interesting and have "deep" backstories too. They also participate frequently into what's happening.
I believe the main issue they have in comparison with the ones in BG1/2 is that they are maybe a bit too OVERdeveloped. Companions in BG were much simpler: "Haha this dude is a strong ranger with a hamster who is kind of a dummy. Fun! " or "He is an evol halfling with his evol mage friend and they plan to do nefarious stuff, obviously" and so on.
It worked however very well. The player needed minimal input to "get them" and immediately had an imprint of their characters in mind.
In PoE each character has way too many issues and too long of a backstory... you can easily lose interest. It's no wonder that the most memorable ones are the ones that have glaring, clear characteristics: The simple, cool fighter dude, the insanse priest etc

 

[Lacrymas]

I'm in the middle of a PoE playthrough with companions and I don't notice them at all. I can't forget I'm with companions in BG1 or 2. PoE's might have a more elaborate backstory, but their presence in the game is minimal. I really don't notice a difference between playing with companions or with adventurers. They don't have almost any interjections and don't really care what we are doing. I murdered an old woman for her bird in cold blood and nobody said anything, despite them vomiting a whole Reader's Digest down your throat when you deem to speak to them. Terrible and pointless.

 

[FreeKaner]

PoE2 is terrible from a writing perspective, horrible narrative. Honestly it's just inexcusable they went for a direct sequel and didn't leave the god shit to PoE1. The environments, exploration, combat etc. are all serviceable and even fun at times, but I just can't take the dialogue and story of the game being this aggressively bad.

 

[TemplarGR]

PoE2 is terrible from a writing perspective, horrible narrative. Honestly it's just inexcusable they went for a direct sequel and didn't leave the god shit to PoE1. The environments, exploration, combat etc. are all serviceable and even fun at times, but I just can't take the dialogue and story of the game being this aggressively bad.

Honestly, it is not THAT bad... Half the TOP CRPG chart of CODEX has cringier writting than Deadfire.

Deadfire is a good game, it is just that the circlejerk ecochamber has decided to hate it for some reason.

 

[Ulfhednar]

are priests still boring buffers in deadfire

Yes, and the 5 character limit and limited spell selection means you feel the priest tax even more than in PoE 1.

 

[pomenitul]

"save this character you don't necessarily care about to move the plot forward"

I get why this is irksome, but it's a bit of an overstatement, since you're also chasing Irenicus.

 

[FreeKaner]

are priests still boring buffers in deadfire

Yes, and the 5 character limit and limited spell selection means you feel the priest tax even more than in PoE 1.

The only priest tax in PoE1 was when you didn't bring one.

 

[Maculo]

I enjoyed Deadfire, but it definitely felt like a missed opportunity at times. The one part in Deadfire's story that stood out to me was the volcanic stronghold. The enemies and the stronghold were neat imo. Narrative-wise, seeing Eothas weather a volcanic eruption, a giant tsunami, and krakens was fun. Observing the gods rage at Eothas was far more entertaining than meeting the gods. I just wish there was more of it and less of the gods nagging you for a status update.

Also, what occurred to me recently is that luminous adra was meant to be a center-point, or so I thought. Yet, by the end of the story Urkaizo is the main prize. I do not recall Urkaizo having any relation to luminous adra. Accordingly I am not sure why Obsidian did not make Urkaizo the focal point from the start. I am confident ancient technology, or the threat of it, would have been more than enough reason for various naval powers and treasure seekers to invade Deadfire.

are priests still boring buffers in deadfire

Yes, and the 5 character limit and limited spell selection means you feel the priest tax even more than in PoE 1.

The only Priest tax in PoE1 was knowing that no foe could make you bleed.

 

[Ulfhednar]

are priests still boring buffers in deadfire

Yes, and the 5 character limit and limited spell selection means you feel the priest tax even more than in PoE 1.

The only priest tax in PoE1 was when you didn't bring one.

That’s what I meant by priest tax - one of your character slots must/should be a priest.

 

[Parabalus]

are priests still boring buffers in deadfire

Yes, and the 5 character limit and limited spell selection means you feel the priest tax even more than in PoE 1.

The only priest tax in PoE1 was when you didn't bring one.

That’s what I meant by priest tax - one of your character slots must/should be a priest.

There really isn't a priest tax in Dumpsterfire though. If anything, there is the CRPG standard wizard tax, but even that's minor.

 

[Maculo]

Certain Priest spells were strong, but the Concussive Missile spell for Wizards was just way overtuned, especially when one applied empowerment. I recall the spell was toned down in subsequent patches, but still it was humorous how few creatures could survive it.

I look forward to beginning a new (and probably last) playthrough once all the DLC are available. I think I will go for an Arcane Knight this time. Seems like a well-rounded character that is locked out of some of the more bullshit spells.