Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire + DLC Thread - now with turn-based combat!

[RaptorRex888]

Yeah, equipping her with some of those super fancy backstory guns makes her into a lady fish terminator.

Also who is keeping tabs on all these weapons and armour with the elaborate backstories? Do they all come with a signed certificate of authenticity from the person that owned it themselves?

 

[Sailor Woedica]

Pallegina is the best! Maia is the wooorst!

 

[FreeKaner]

Pallegina was great in PoE1, she is insufferable in PoE2.

 

[Roguey]

"I was unsatisfied with how I did this in the first game, so I'll give it another go *makes it worse*" seems to be a recurring theme in Deadfire.

 

[Lacrymas]

That's because they can't tell why exactly something is wrong.

 

[jf8350143]

I think the first bullet point is about his realization that turn-based is now more popular - and understood by gamers - than RTwP. Will be fun to hear that part of that talk.

What companies don't get is that turn-based was always more popular; RtwP is an entryway for non-RPG fans, who aren't recurrent customers, and PoE, which was a game built on nostalgia for older games, would never appeal to those non-RPG fans.

Josh Sawyer has said that believes that the success of the old RTwP RPGs was contingent on the popularity of real time strategy games during the same era. Because of those games, real-time point & click unit management skills were more widespread in the general gaming populace than they are today. I'd bet he said that in the talk, but I wonder what else he said.

And this would somehow be less of the case with the massive popularity of MOBAs?

MOBA's success was due to it reducing the numbers of units you control to one, and you only need to care about 5 enemies at most.

In CRPG you have a whole team and dozens of enemies throwing at you.

 

[RaptorRex888]

Pallegina was great in PoE1, she is insufferable in PoE2.

Yeah, I haven't played 1 since it came out and I hardly used her but I remember her being a lot more reasonable and measured in her views about her homeland rather than the fanatic she is in 2.

I think they just needed to have one of your companions be a Republics supporter to stand alongside gay fish, furry pirate and Maia, so they decided to make her fit into that mold rather than creating a new companion.

 

[RickOmbo]

What a giant piece of nostalgia.

 

[Riddler]

I think the first bullet point is about his realization that turn-based is now more popular - and understood by gamers - than RTwP. Will be fun to hear that part of that talk.

What companies don't get is that turn-based was always more popular; RtwP is an entryway for non-RPG fans, who aren't recurrent customers, and PoE, which was a game built on nostalgia for older games, would never appeal to those non-RPG fans.

Josh Sawyer has said that believes that the success of the old RTwP RPGs was contingent on the popularity of real time strategy games during the same era. Because of those games, real-time point & click unit management skills were more widespread in the general gaming populace than they are today. I'd bet he said that in the talk, but I wonder what else he said.

And this would somehow be less of the case with the massive popularity of MOBAs?

MOBA's success was due to it reducing the numbers of units you control to one, and you only need to care about 5 enemies at most.

In CRPG you have a whole team and dozens of enemies throwing at you.

In CRPGs you don't play against a human but a stupid AI and you get to pause. I doubt complexity is the issue here.

Furthermore, most people playing RTSs don't micro at all, even in games such as wc3.

 

[FreeKaner]

That's because they can't tell why exactly something is wrong.

This seems to be core issue here. It is not that they are not willing to change their ways to better, they just don't seem to have an idea about what they did wrong and how to fix it. They also seem to take the vocal critics at face value without actually examining the root causes of their criticism.

For example PoE1 feeling too "serious" so they added more silly humour in second game which for the most part just bad and unfitting. They also took the criticism that the poe1 story is too confusing and disjointed and just started to explain more of the setting and background rather than focusing on narrative elements itself. Sawyer also deflects and attempts this negotiation that they just did everything like how fans wanted, a criticism is not necessarily solution, players don't necessarily know what they want either.

 

[Yosharian]

That's because they can't tell why exactly something is wrong.

This seems to be core issue here. It is not that they are willing to change their ways to better, they just don't seem to have the idea what they did wrong and how to fix it. They also seem to take the vocal critics at face value without actually examining the root causes of their criticism.

For example PoE1 feeling too "serious" so they added more silly humour in second game which for the most part just bad and unfitting. They also took the criticism that the poe1 story is too confusing and disjointed and just started to explain more of the setting and background rather than focusing on narrative elements itself. Sawyer also deflects and attempts this negotiation that they just did everything like how fans wanted, a criticism is not necessarily solution, players don't necessarily know what they want either.

I think fans do know what they want, but different fans want different things, and a lot of things get lost in translation, like a game of telephone. By the time the finished product arrives in our hands, many of the 'improvements' barely resemble the things that were asked for.

 

[pomenitul]

Christ does this place ever sound like a broken record sometimes.

 

[Sailor Woedica]

How did Deadfire's characters and story grab the imagination of so so many fan artists, but Pathfinder: Kingmaker kind of really failed to do the same?

 

[FreeKaner]

Pathfinder has such a garbage and generic setting. Pillars' is at least just boring because of trying to be "realistic", Sawyer's fascist musings aside.

 

[RickOmbo]

How did Deadfire's characters and story grab the imagination of so so many fan artists, but Pathfinder: Kingmaker kind of really failed to do the same?

I know this one, because those artists feel the urge to give free advertising to the underdog.

 

[Sailor Woedica]

I know this one, because those artists feel the urge to give free advertising to the underdog.

If that was true shouldn't Kingmaker have waaay more fan art?

 

[Reinhardt]

It's because "artists" love furry buttsex.

 

[Haplo]

How did Deadfire's characters and story grab the imagination of so so many fan artists, but Pathfinder: Kingmaker kind of really failed to do the same?

"Artist" is such a cheap word nowadays.

 

[jf8350143]

I think the first bullet point is about his realization that turn-based is now more popular - and understood by gamers - than RTwP. Will be fun to hear that part of that talk.

What companies don't get is that turn-based was always more popular; RtwP is an entryway for non-RPG fans, who aren't recurrent customers, and PoE, which was a game built on nostalgia for older games, would never appeal to those non-RPG fans.

Josh Sawyer has said that believes that the success of the old RTwP RPGs was contingent on the popularity of real time strategy games during the same era. Because of those games, real-time point & click unit management skills were more widespread in the general gaming populace than they are today. I'd bet he said that in the talk, but I wonder what else he said.

And this would somehow be less of the case with the massive popularity of MOBAs?

MOBA's success was due to it reducing the numbers of units you control to one, and you only need to care about 5 enemies at most.

In CRPG you have a whole team and dozens of enemies throwing at you.

In CRPGs you don't play against a human but a stupid AI and you get to pause. I doubt complexity is the issue here.

Furthermore, most people playing RTSs don't micro at all, even in games such as wc3.

"You get to pause." See that's the problem.

If you have pause every few seconds when playing the game, what's the point of making it real time?

MOBA was a genre developed from a real time system, but DnD and Pathfinder system are designed around turn basd, why change it? What does real time adds?

 

[Quillon]

If you have pause every few seconds when playing the game, what's the point of making it real time? The DnD and Pathfinder system are designed around turn basd, why change it? What does real time adds?

Christ does this place ever sound like a broken record sometimes.

 

[RickOmbo]

If that was true shouldn't Kingmaker have waaay more fan art?

POE2 famously has got extremely low sales, not Kingmaker.

 

[Sailor Woedica]

If that was true shouldn't Kingmaker have waaay more fan art?

POE2 famously has got extremely low sales, not Kingmaker.

So your galaxy brain take is games that have seriously low sales get way bigger fandoms than games that sell well?

 

[Elu]

If you have pause every few seconds when playing the game, what's the point of making it real time?

In order to have an ability to precisely command a multitude of units and have a simultaneous resolution? Duh.

MOBA was a genre developed from a real time system, but DnD and Pathfinder system are designed around turn basd, why change it? What does real time adds?

Tabletop DnD has been designed around 'turn-based' out of necessity. There even were encouragements to add real-time elements into play from basically the beginning.
And the 'turn-based' in the initial DnD design was very different to turn-based in Dnd 3+. In some versions the whole squad was acting in one turn, there were also time segements to consider in resolution etc.
In fact, real time ADnD is actually pretty solid at incorporating this elements, while cutting down the downtime.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

Codex loves(ed) Obsidian and cargo cult rtwp crpgs and its Poe fanbase is like 5 people, 3 of which are literal Internet retards and the other 2 pretend to hate it.

 

[Haplo]

Not that you're wrong, but I don't think I like this classification.