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Pillars of Eternity Beta Discussion [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Abu Antar

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Sensuki is one of those people whose username sounds nothing like who they actually are. Abu Antar is another (sounds like an Andhaira alt, not some super-mellow Swedish guy from NeoGAF)
:badnews:
My username was a very silly one. It's Arabic and means Antar's Father. Usually, we use that "phrase" when we ironically want to call someone a tough guy.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Oh yeah, I know what it means. I've encountered my share of Abu Antars +M
 

santino27

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
Only 8? weak WEAK!


Codexian lore references aside...I'm very disappointed in this. Certainly, I'm in the minority for preferring BG1 (or even 2) style of quantity over depth when it comes to recruitable NPCs (makes them more expendable, more of a resource, making or more fun ironman/speed runs)...but I never expected there to be fewer NPCs than there were classes. Ah well, they pretty much had to go Torment-style so as to better capture the storyfag demographic.

I do think you're in the minority on that front, but the Adventurer Hall means you can create your own shallow, personality-less recruitable NPCs to your heart's content, which would seem to fit your need.

Everyone wins.

Unless the game is shit.
 
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Roguey

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It would have been neat if the adventurer's hall had some pre-made adventurers with BG-level (i.e. there but barely existent) personalities but you can't have it all.
 

Rostere

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 RPG Wokedex Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
There's no way to balance it except for going for Wasteland 2-esque skill bloat. I sure hope you enjoy having three different skills dedicated to the sole task of opening a container. I don't.

Still wrong. There are three ways you can handle it:

1. Making harder skill checks (so high skills matter less)
2. Handing out less skill points to begin with (frankly the easiest way)
3. Adding more skills. Which is the oddball solution you claim is the only one for some reason.

Besides, PoE already solves many of these problems. Instead of picking dialogue skills and simply getting to see all the content, dialogue options are tied to attributes. And since you can't max them all, and your choice of attributes also depends on your combat build, there's no way you can see all the content in a single playthrough. Stealth is cumulative and uses the party's total stealth skill, Athletics and Survival have a benefit for each individual character that has those skills, etc.

But tying dialogue options to attributes as a solution to C&C in character creation would not be needed if you do not shower the party with skill points to begin with. Duh.

The problem is that there are so many games which handles this badly (NWN2, Wasteland 2 from what I hear, I haven't gotten to playing it yet) that people without imagination like you cannot envision a game which does not shower the party with skill points and allows them to solve every situation. Maybe there are also developers who cater to Bethestards and their ilk who actually think that you should be able to do everything in one playthrough.

It's pretty hard because these games typically have a stat that increases the amount of skill points you get (usually INT). Personally I wouldn't have a stat like that (even in a single-character RPG) because it's a no-brainer option (of course you want more skills), but that's how its done.

It's just another thing to balance. I can see how games have failed to do this properly, but in theory this wouldn't be hard to balance. Just because people have had stupid solutions in the past does not mean you can't come up with better ones in the future.

I don't understand. You want to tie skills to classes? Also, see my previous point about skill bloat.

No. It was just an example. Sorry if I got too specific and confused you.

Let's be more abstract: imagine a game with 10 different skills. Your party can have a maximum of 4 characters. Now suppose you maxed-out characters are only able to reach the apex of one of the skills by the end of the game, with a (possibly very) small amount of points in other skills. Tada! Skill bloat avoided. This would be analogous to single-character games where you cannot max out all skills.

Again, if the game were a survival sim style deal, I would agree. However, a combat focused high fantasy title should never penalize the player for farming gold. Let the player get filthy stinking rich at the end game, I say. So long as no barter skills or other such character development choices are subverted, whats the problem? I am not saying this should happen immediately but around the games final act its ok. If the game must find money sinks, I say keep them optional (stronghold, etc).

Also, penalizing the player by decreasing weapon durability (thereby charging them x gold for y sword swings) just seems wrong in this kinda setting. Now, if this were a grittier setting that had Oregon Trail like gameplay (Realm of Arkania, etc), then the weapon durability mechanic would fit. Ultimately, I think its a mistake to take a one size fits all approach to crpg titles. Not all mechanics or design approaches make sense in all titles.

The problem with this is that you seem to think that being rich means "having lots of spare gold", while I think of rich as "buying expensive stuff". Merely having a number by the side of a gold coin in my inventory does not make me feel rich personally.

I absolutely think that repairing makes sense as a skill, just as haggle/trading does. Both are skills which would increase your surplus when out spelunking and killing monsters - and repairing would also greatly help player characters deep in enemy hostile territory, with no professional blacksmith close by. I support earning gold as a viable, unique and rewarding distinct path through an RPG and would not want for it to just be an inevitable side-effect of progressing through the game.

You ARE right in that different design approaches fit different games. But again we have a difference in emphasis, where I think it's generally more fun to squeeze in as many game mechanics as possible and have more C&C and less railroading. For example with regards to getting rich, you should not inevitably be able to buy everything (in which case a wealth meter would be fairly pointless), but you should only be truly rich and be able to buy anything you want if you have maxed out your party in skills which save you money, such as repairing and trading.
 

Shevek

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Rostere said:
The problem with this is that you seem to think that being rich means "having lots of spare gold", while I think of rich as "buying expensive stuff". Merely having a number by the side of a gold coin in my inventory does not make me feel rich personally.

Its both for me.

I absolutely think that repairing makes sense as a skill, just as haggle/trading does.

This is why I said that letting the player get rich should not subvert any previous character creation choices (haggle skill, etc). That being said, I dont think they were ever going to have a haggle skill (just like no speech skill and no crafting skills). They were gonna put in durability as a straight up money sink that the player couldnt do anything about. Every X sword swings costs you Y gold no matter what.

I mean, I see where you are coming from with C&C but I just dont see wealth being tied to character development choice as a priority for the setting/design goals for this game. Similarly, if this were a Conan-like Sword and Sorcery setting, then its to be expected that I will find barrels full of gold and crazy riches without needing to invest in haggle. I should be pissing gold away because I have so much in certain settings. I recall a PnP Sword and Sorcery setting called Beasts and Barbarians where the game just had you roll at the end of each adventure to see just how filthy rich you got for whatever dungeon hack you just did.

I recall briefly checking out a PnP setting a while back called Hellfrost (great setting, same ruleset as Beast and Barbarians). Very gritty and cold but still had plenty of magic (interesting mix). Plenty of skills/gameplay related to keeping gear functioning, staying alive in a cold place, avoiding over exposure to sub zero temps, etc etc. It was sort of a high fantasy survival setting (similar to the IWD setting but better). Again, in a setting like that, repairing, haggling, etc would make a whole lot more sense.
 
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Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
melnorme asked: Damn, that Royal Edition is expensive! Have you considered offering the expansion pack free with it?

I do everything I can to not be involved in defining/discussing the contents and price points of different SKUs because I have no interest it.

theovf22stuff asked: Hello. I remember reading, probably way back in 2012 (I can't find the source) that the technique that was used in PoE for the graphics (2d images) would allow for a higher volume of content to be developed more quickly. In practice was that really the case? Do you feel that this particular technique that you and your team chose to employ proved more effective than whatever you could otherwise do in 3d? Have you learned ways to further optimize the process? Forgive my lack of technical knowledge

Very much so. For most of the project we’ve had 4 environment artists. There is no way we could have made a game of PoE’s size and detail in 3D from scratch with those resources in the same amount of time. Even so, we learned a lot over the course of development (about Maya and Mental Ray) and our environment building and render times are now much, much faster. When we are able to start working on the expansion, I think the artists are going to produce some really amazing environments.
 

Grotesque

±¼ ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Vatnik
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Divinity: Original Sin Divinity: Original Sin 2
Sensuki said that from the live-stream, the main city is smaller than Baldur's Gate and the settlements in general are smaller all around.
Is that true?
 

Roguey

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Several badgamers are upset because their secret orbposting lair was linked to on the front page. And they're blaming me even though all I did was quote a paragraph with barely-any-context; Crooked Bee was the one who linked to it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Here's a guy who doesn't know me very well (and also a developer and a reference in New Vegas):
yeah what the hell, you think it's going to help you get more cool posts right from the dev when you silently taking forum posts and putting them on your site without interacting?

maybe start with 'hey this is a cool post, you mind if i post it to rpg codex dot com'

or you know, totally be a creeper and confirm sawyer's carefully circumspect posting method. i am sure he will continue to interact and be forthcoming with that happening.

I do this with all his posts everywhere, even when it's to his detriment (e.g. all those BG2 and D&D slams from the Obsidian forums). Permission, that's ridiculous. I'm assuming CB requested permission since news posts are a bit more formal than something buried in a megathread.

I also don't post on badgame because its humor is too mean-spirited for my tastes, I don't have much of anything to contribute, and I still think it's funny to never interact with Sawyer directly. :M
 

Duraframe300

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Several badgamers are upset because their secret orbposting lair was linked to on the front page. And they're blaming me even though all I did was quote a paragraph with barely-any-context; Crooked Bee was the one who linked to it. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Here's a guy who doesn't know me very well (and also a developer and a reference in New Vegas):


I do this with all his posts everywhere, even when it's to his detriment (e.g. all those BG2 and D&D slams from the Obsidian forums). Permission, that's ridiculous. I'm assuming CB requested permission since news posts are a bit more formal than something buried in a megathread.

I also don't post on badgame because its humor is too mean-spirited for my tastes, I don't have much of anything to contribute, and I still think it's funny to never interact with Sawyer directly. :M

Man I should be in jail by now.
 

set

Cipher
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Oct 21, 2013
Messages
940
I bought PoE. I'm fully expecting it to be more underwhelming than WL2, if that's even possible.

But at least Obsidian doesn't talk as nearly as much shit as Brian.
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
On Expansion (from SA)

rope kid said:
We have had three or four logistics/brainstorming meetings and a variety of discussions about the expansion but haven't done much work on it for obvious reasons. We need to do a little bit of prep beforehand so we can accommodate the expansion but obviously don't want to devote much time to it yet.
 

Invictus

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Divinity: Original Sin 2
Nice to see they are going with the "what would be cool to add" indie way rather than the "Hey cool idea save that for the DLC" that Ubi and the AAA use.
To be honest I was super pissed about the "balance" and early combat builds, but seeing the beautiful graphics, some of the mechanics and the IE vibe (along with visibly tweaked combat) have got me psyched about this game again. Might have been too butthurt and angsty before but somehow I think this will turn out all right.
Most of this nostalgia driven game have proven fun basis for future games (like Shadowrun and Wasteland 2) great games on their own right (Divinity) and promising new comers like Neo Scavenger and Stagland, so hopefuly Pilars manages to set things up as a viable IP for Obsidian
Still think Fergus is a doddering imbecil thou
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Sensuki said:
Do you know if the calculation for other stats are going to be changed to additive as well ? (eg. Recovery time calculation, bonus duration calculation, bonus interrupt and concentration calculations etc) - I'm pretty sure they are all multiplicative too. Making Recovery time bonuses/penalties additive would probably make armor/shields a lot more viable too

rope kid said:
Everything is supposed to be additive and I'm going to have Tim make a pass to make sure they all are.
 

Infinitron

I post news
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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
On patches:

diablo169uk asked: Hi Josh, how much post release support do you expect we'll see for Pillars? With no publishers to worry about, is providing post release balance patches and additional features going to be easier for Obsidian?

I don’t know if the presence or absence of a publisher necessarily complicates or simplifies patching. Patching is like any other work in that it costs time/money. Thankfully on PC platforms, those costs are primarily limited to the labor required to implement and test fixes then deploy a patch.

We’re doing our best to make our release stable and balanced, but we do plan to continue providing support (including nice features) for PoE past release.

Josh Sawyer disapproves of BG:EE imbalance:

eljackinton asked: I hope this doesn't sound like an attempt to get a controversial soundbite, because it's not, but I'm genuinely curious on what thoughts you (or the Obsidian team) have on Beamdog's enhanced editions of the old Inifinity Engine games? Particularly regarding the potenital 'all new but still using the old engine/mechanics' Baldur's Gate game they recently mentioned.

I don’t want to speak for anyone else on the team or at Obsidian, but I like what I’ve played of them (BG and IWD, specifically). My main concern with the re-releases was balance, which I do believe suffers in BG and IWD. The BG2 kits were really tuned for that game. The content in BG and IWD was not, so a lot of the encounters (that I’ve seen, anyway) become much easier to blast through. Still, they’re a lot of fun.

Hah, who is this? Luckmann? http://forums.obsidian.net/user/28388-luckmann/

vesselrebellion asked: Do you actually pay attention to the Obsidian forums, or do you prefer the company of yes-sayers that will not question your infinite wisdom or challenge your logic as you explain design decisions?

I pay attention to certain things on the OEI forums, but not everything. Whether or not we use opinions and ideas from the OEI forums depends largely on the impact it will have for players as a whole.

No one on the PoE team is a yes-sayer. Whenever I’m considering a significant change to mechanics, I pull in Tim, Kaz, Bobby, Matt Sheets, Nick, other QA folks, Brandon, or Olivia and run the ideas by them. Most frequently, I’m talking to Tim, Bobby, Matt, and Nick. None of them are yes-sayers and none of them hesitate to criticize ideas or bring up ideas of their own.

He's kind of an asshat.
 
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Roguey

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Good news everybody: I successfully derailed a thread in a forum in which I'm not even posting. :)

Everything is supposed to be additive

lol absurdian
 

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