Eternity Pillars of Eternity II Beta Thread [GAME RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

[aweigh]

not talking about spoiling, but you just touched on an important facet of this backer-campaign videos: there is a very big difference between trying out a demo (or beta as the kids call it these days), and watching loads of MK ULTRA-type marketing adverts over the course of months or years.

theoretically anyone who backs a product on a backer-campaign is interested in the product, and this type of long-form viral marketing will have the side-effect of creating a long-term devotee, when the campaign is done well, a devotee that will be willing be more receptive to the campaigns themselves for these products than of the products themselves.

anyway, like i mentioned at he beginning here: trying out the demo/beta is seperate from marketing. the fact that they can and do charge extra money for the privilege of playing the procuct's demo/beta is possible specifically because they know their backers are already "indoctrinated".

there is a lot of power in a product seller being able to constantly and continually address its potential customers with a faux-interpersonal exchange of power and information, and examples of this being done outside of backer-campaigns are:

- Nintendo and its nintendo Direct "seminars".

- Apple and its keynote summits.

Specifically in the Apple camp can one most obviously see the fruits of this type of marketing brain-washing over long term.

 

[Lacrymas]

You are saying this is some kind of subtle manipulation? All PR is manipulation, so eh. I guess it's more effective, but I usually don't watch or read backer updates and I doubt it affects me much, so I can't really say.

 

[aweigh]

speaking of the demo/beta, btw, will be posting my thoughts on it soon. They're not that interesting, though, (My thoughts on the beta) as so far they align almost perfectly with what has already been expressed by everyone else in this thread.

i really don't understand the why of the scaling back of a lot of the player options for char. advancement, and i really don't understand the drastic change to spell-casting (its animation-time, for example).

i'll post more detailed thoughts later. The actual game play itself is still just as enjoyable as it is in PoE 1, so far.

One sneaking suspicion I have for the supression of direct spell casting frequency during combat is as part of of their goal of "visual clarity" during combat.

One of the banes of PoE 1 combat was all the magical VFX eye-raping the player and I suppose one very effective way of alleviating that eye-rape is by making it so that casting magical VFX occurs less frequently on a combat-by-combat basis???

 

[Background Character]

Thats some cringy shit, i wanted to see some footage of riding the Aumaua.

In 2014 you rode the bull

But now

In 2018

It's time

To ride

The

Aumaua



Pillars of Eternity

2

Deadfire

Coming this summer from the visionary director Josh Sawyer

 

[ilitarist]

Professional advertising is still far ahead of what Obsidian does. Those development videos would mostly be seen by people who are already interested. Truly popular games use TV ads and enjoy x1000 more coverage.

 

[Lacrymas]

Don't forget that the optional maps in the beta are small, smaller than in PoE1.

 

[Mazisky]

Don't forget that the optional maps in the beta are small, smaller than in PoE1.

If those are for random encounters, it's fine they're small. Random encounters always been little generic pieces of terrain anyway

 

[Sizzle]

The size varies a lot in the beta. Some areas (like the quest they added in the first update to the beta) are almost Storm of Zehir-level tiny, while the main quest (which is part of the critical path in the main game) consists of several big dungeon levels.

But my overall impression is that most areas feel smaller than they were in PoE1. Though this doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing.

 

[Maculo]

I would argue that one reason the maps feel smaller is due to the increase in impassable terrain. By impassable terrain, I mean rivers, cliffs, gullies, mountains, etc. In contrast, I remember PoE1 having more flat open plains filled with enemy packs.

There are just smaller maps and dungeons as well. The recently added temple filled with cannibals is perhaps the smallest.

 

[Sizzle]

The recently added temple filled with cannibals is perhaps the smallest.

While playing this area, I spent a good couple of minutes trying to figure out if it was really that small. I was almost certain that there had to have been some sort of lever or hidden passage. Or something. But nope :D

 

[Maculo]

The recently added temple filled with cannibals is perhaps the smallest.

While playing this area, I spent a good couple of minutes trying to figure out if it was really that small. I was almost certain that there had to have been some sort of lever or hidden passage. Or something. But nope :D

At least I am not the only one. I think the island is tied to a quest to save/find that dwarf.

Edit: I also was paranoid someone would post that all I had to do was pull a lever or find a secret passage.

When I boot up the beta again, I will test out Assassin/Soul-blade and Devoted/Hellwalker (or Shattered Pillars), which apparently are amazing. The dumb part is that I am just going to be playing a Priest of Eothas at release.

 

[Urthor]

The only thing I'd judge off the beta would be the class abilities UI and the combat really. Trying to judge area design off the tiny sliver would be pretty silly, just wait for release.

 

[Sizzle]

Sure, but it does give us something to analyze and base our expectations on.

For example, the Radiant Adra quest in the BB. Nice, big levels, with some hidden rooms, and even an optional hard fight with an Engwithian Saint - something that wasn't present in PoE1.

 

[Maculo]

The only thing I'd judge off the beta would be the class abilities UI and the combat really. Trying to judge area design off the tiny sliver would be pretty silly, just wait for release.

I do not necessarily disagree, but it does appear to be consistent for the most part.

I also would argue that class abilities could be harder to judge, because of the "power level" system. Since all abilities scale in accordance to power level, some classes that under perform in the beta may yet pull ahead in the late game. Right now, multiclass martial classes are king compared to casters. Although perhaps Lacrymas is correct and multiclass melee characters will continue to dominate.

Edit: Sizzle, also brings up a good point. The optional fights can be so much harder than the main path fights. To the point that the main path fights are a little misleading in my opinion. I was doing the Broodmother quest, and I stumbled into the Dryads and moss giants (I forget the name) at the bottom right of the map. I just know my main tank (Shieldbearer Paladin/Unbroken) got straight up murdered.

 

[Rev]

The size varies a lot in the beta. Some areas (like the quest they added in the first update to the beta) are almost Storm of Zehir-level tiny, while the main quest (which is part of the critical path in the main game) consists of several big dungeon levels.

But my overall impression is that most areas feel smaller than they were in PoE1. Though this doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing.

Are they like in Tyranny? Because I find the maps in Tyranny to be quite small, I would even say too small.

 

[Sizzle]

The size varies a lot in the beta. Some areas (like the quest they added in the first update to the beta) are almost Storm of Zehir-level tiny, while the main quest (which is part of the critical path in the main game) consists of several big dungeon levels.

But my overall impression is that most areas feel smaller than they were in PoE1. Though this doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing.

Are they like in Tyranny? Because I find the maps in Tyranny to be quite small, I would even say too small.

Depends on what you mean. The Old Walls in Tyranny were pretty big, but they were also very boring and straightforward slogs.

The BB's main quest dungeon is much more interesting, involved, and better designed.

The other areas are comparatively small, but even they are better than Tyranny's, thanks to better enemy placement, and more things to do in them.

 

[Urthor]

The only thing I'd judge off the beta would be the class abilities UI and the combat really. Trying to judge area design off the tiny sliver would be pretty silly, just wait for release.

I do not necessarily disagree, but it does appear to be consistent for the most part.

I also would argue that class abilities could be harder to judge, because of the "power level" system. Since all abilities scale in accordance to power level, some classes that under perform in the beta may yet pull ahead in the late game. Right now, multiclass martial classes are king compared to casters. Although perhaps Lacrymas is correct and multiclass melee characters will continue to dominate.

I mean yeah numbers can change, but the fundamental abilities probably won't have their basic shape changed at this point, so we can see if there's issues like what popped up in PoE1 like Wizard abilities and spell book contents.

 

[Lacrymas]

Only the "main quest's" maps are big and open, everything else is claustrophobically tiny.

I also would argue that class abilities could be harder to judge, because of the "power level" system. Since all abilities scale in accordance to power level

They do, but many of them scale very poorly. Only straight up damage spells scale well, like the various missile spells. That doesn't really matter due to Penetration. Getting buffs that affect Penetration is hard in the beginning and I'm not sure how they affect the Penetration of spells. There's also the fact it isn't all tied to armor, there are various defenses for various damage types, so Lightning Bolt will target the Shock armor and I'm not sure if that is affected by -armor debuffs. It's all so confusing and obtuse.

 

[Maculo]

They do, but many of them scale very poorly. Only straight up damage spells scale well, like the various missile spells. That doesn't really matter due to Penetration. Getting buffs that affect Penetration is hard in the beginning and I'm not sure how they affect the Penetration of spells. There's also the fact it isn't all tied to armor, there are various defenses for various damage types, so Lightning Bolt will target the Shock armor and I'm not sure if that is affected by -armor debuffs. It's all so confusing and obtuse.

I tried finding any commentary on non-damage spells, and this is all I found:

It was mentioned that abilities damage will scale with Power Source. How will that affect crowd control spells? Also, is the scaling tied to the Power Source points or Power Source level?

JS: Crowd control generally scales by having longer duration. Let's say you got a 1st level crowd control spell, and your character is 9th level, and it's an Arcane spell—if your Arcane is super powerful then your low level spells are going to get stronger. If it's a damage based spell the damage is going to get better, the penetration is going to get better. If it does multiple projectiles you're gonna to get more projectiles. If it's a crowd control spell you're gonna get a longer duration on that effect when it hits.

And it's tied to Power Source level. Power Source points are just XP towards your Power Source. The higher the Power Source level, the stronger those things will be. It just keeps scaling up.

This answer makes it seem that spells will get additional penetration.

Also, I assume buffs will receive an extended duration, similar to crowd control, but I am curious if it makes sense to max intellect for a buff character (i.e., Priest). After a certain point, how long do you really need a buff to last, especially if it just drops off at the end of combat? Seems like more reason to pump Resolve or Dexterity.

I mean yeah numbers can change, but the fundamental abilities probably won't have their basic shape changed at this point, so we can see if there's issues like what popped up in PoE1 like Wizard abilities and spell book contents.

I agree for the most part. The only counter example I would make is PoE1 Priest. I would argue that Priest did not look that amazing in the PoE1 beta, but once Priest got access to Avatar, Crowns of the Faithful, Divine Flame, Holy Storm, etc., you could play differently. The multiple might and perception buffs, combined with additional casts of Shining Beacon (it stacked at one point) and Divine Flame (increases the damage of DoTs) turned Priest into a murder machine.

PotD Priest starts like Danny DeVito stuck in nightmare dungeon and then later becomes the Predator (a bit of exaggeration of course).

 

[FreeKaner]

Penetration should be completely removed from spells and separate magic resistance should be added if necessary in my opinion, that could fix one of the fundamental disparities between casters and melee characters, that melee characters just have better options in terms of penetration while casters are just left at a disadvantage without any counter-play.

Where is the balance?

 

[Maculo]

.

Where is the balance?

At level 20

 

[Lacrymas]

Penetration should be completely removed from spells and separate magic resistance should be added if necessary in my opinion, that could fix one of the fundamental disparities between casters and melee characters, that melee characters just have better options in terms of penetration while casters are just left at a disadvantage without any counter-play.

Where is the balance?

It's not only Penetration, but that contributes a lot. The problem is basically threefold - Penetration, very limited number of spells per encounter if you don't rest spam and not enough damage even if it does penetrate. It seems like casters are designed around Empowering themselves constantly so they can keep up with the melee, but Penetration fucks over that as well. If a caster unloads everything and it penetrates, then use up all their empowers to do that 2 more times, then MAYBE they can keep up, but I haven't tried it. This tactic relies on you constantly resting after every fight, though, which isn't a problem since resting isn't limited in any way. All this while melee have constant steady damage that doesn't rely on anything of the sort. It's just mind-blowing how the different systems interact to mess up each other and make no sense when taken as a whole.

 

[FreeKaner]

One thing I don't doubt is that Sawyer will try and commit to balancing this game post-release. I just hope he does it by counter-balancing instead of further streamlining.

 

[Quillon]

One thing I don't doubt is that Sawyer will try and commit to balancing this game post-release.

He said or suggested that he won't work on the DLCs, so he might not have the chance to balance this one continuously.

 

[Lacrymas]

One thing I don't doubt is that Sawyer will try and commit to balancing this game post-release. I just hope he does it by counter-balancing instead of further streamlining.

The problem area is the Empower mechanic, everything leads back to that. They can't up the damage of spellcasters to match melee because Empowering casters will be insanely overpowered with no way to stop that since the resting isn't limited. If the resting is limited and spellcasters match the melee damage, then there would be no point to the Empower mechanic or resting anymore, and spellcasters would still be occasionally a bit more overpowered than melee because Empower does practically nothing for melee and they have no way to bridge that gap. If the resting is limited and they don't match the melee, what's the point of taking a caster even if Empowering will close the gap between them? Taking only melee will be easier, with better/consistent results and less bullshit. If the resting isn't limited and casters can only keep up with melee with constant Empowers, then they become ridiculously micro-management heavy, while also making Empower and resting vestigial and pointless, as they aren't limited at all and it's simply another button to press. See, every scenario is a lose-lose and there is no way around that unless they drastically change how the game plays for melee and casters and how the Empower mechanic works. Like casters having no damage at all and are utility/buff/debuff bots, while melee/ranged physical attacks are the only way to do damage, but that's obviously drastic to the extreme and a completely different system. It would require a complete rebalancing of the entire game.