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Eternity Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Pre-Release Thread [BETA RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

Luckmann

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It's not that simple. I agree Fenstermaker did a very good job on him, but I imagine the writing is not that difficult to replicate by someone else. After all, Eder is a pretty normal guy without any major quirks or idiosyncrasies in the way he talks, behaves etc.
I doubt it's that simple. To know how Eder would react, or if he would react, in a given situation, or to a given line, especially with those NPC interactions they have going on... The original writer would have to pass on a thick file of background on that character to the new writer, and my guess is that it would be pretty hard to preserve the original character after that change.

BTW why would people continue to want to believe Durance was "written" by Avellone after Avellone himself denied this multiple times?
Yeah, I asked Avellone something about the end of Durance's arc once (and why the very end was shit, when everything else was fucking stellar), and it was obvious that he wasn't sure what I was talking about. Avellone probably created the character, the characterization, maybe storyboarded him, wrote some fluff pieces to get a feel for the character, and so on, but he didn't actually write-write the actual Durance as he was implemented into the game, and probably didn't actually write any of his dialogue. Had Avellone had a chance to write that himself, I doubt he'd accepted the Durance/Grieving Mother arc being practically scrapped.
 
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Irenaeus

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The fact that it's possible to play through the game twice and spend over 350 hours with it and not notice Eder's "racism", and nevertheless he will have a quote-unqote "racist" character trait, just stinks suspiciously.

Make a racist villain -> rage.
Make a sympathetic guy casually racist -> rage.
Make nobody racist at all with all races living happily together in harmony -> rage.

Can't win with you guys.

Actually, we are not tired of winning.
 

AwesomeButton

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I remember him saying he only did initial work on his background, but then it was taken over by someone, and most of what Avellone had written was scrapped. Knowing how productive he is, I guess something remained, but what was that something, and how much of the whole? But sure, if someone wants to think Durance was written by Avellone, they are welcome to do that.

Also, Junta, you are fake news! :P
 

Prime Junta

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Yeah, I asked Avellone something about the end of Durance's arc once, and it was obvious that he wasn't sure what I was talking about. Avellone probably created the character, the characterization, maybe storyboarded him, wrote some fluff pieces to get a feel for the character, and so on, but he didn't actually write-write the actual Durance as he was implemented into the game, and probably didn't actually write any of his dialogue. Had Avellone had a chance to write that himself, I doubt he'd accepted the Durance/Grieving Mother arc being practically scrapped.

If that's true, I gotta wonder what he has been doing at Obsidz all those years? Senior figure zooming around getting people unstuck and giving them advice? Massively valuable role but to like it you have to be able to get kicks from what other people do than what you do with yourself; also not much of a creative outlet.
 
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Irenaeus

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I'm reading people say Durance was racist, but I never got that from him. He was a passionate guy, and awesomely written. The best character in the game bar none.

Anyone who spread Fake News that Durance or Eder were racist (before being rewritten by Day of the Rope kid and his trope of lunatic purple-haired cuck-oo-landers) will be met with my eternal enmity.
 
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Irenaeus

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Ghostwriting Eder vs. Durance:
It's not that simple.
First, it is possible that Fenstermaker will return. Second, if not, I agree that he did a very good job on Eader, but I imagine the writing is not that difficult to replicate by someone else. After all, Eder is a pretty normal guy without any major quirks or idiosyncrasies in the way he talks, behaves etc.

That they changed Éder to evil white racist shows that Obsidian can't write a normal guy anymore to save their lives (or company).
 

Parabalus

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Excuse me, I believe you mean +.5, it's not actually a real 50% unless you have no modifiers, which is almost never the case.

50% is just what it says on the box, it's a 1.5 multiplicative reduction to recovery time, I linked the table earlier. I believe it used to be wholly additive when you did your testing in beta, was changed in 2.0 or sth.

It is "pretty stupid gameplay wise" according to what standard? There's no rule in game design that states immunity effects = bad. In fact, they are frequently used by highly successful game systems to heighten situational awareness and to force adaptation. Many strategy games make extensive use of them in order to maintain tactical diversity.

Just to use an example from another game that everyone knows - consider Starcraft. In Starcraft, you either have detection, or you get fucked in the ass by stealth units. You either have units that shoot air, or you just straight up lose to air units. You either have siege tanks as Terran, or you just straight up lose to Protoss armies. Those are all HARD counters. Yet in combination with soft counters, they laid the foundations for one of the most competitive and in-depth real time strategy games ever made.

None of the arguments against hard counters ever made much sense to me. Sure, rock paper scissors is simplistic, but it's still one of the most loved childhood games, and no one is saying that every mechanic in your game should be rock paper scissors. Used intelligently, immunity effects & hard counters in general can be one of the most effective ways to encourage situational awareness, preparation, and adaptation. In fact, it's a much bigger problem for a game to not have them, as said game will have to work that much harder to achieve the same effect.

I don't get what you're trying to argue, I agree with you completely. My point was precise, about permanent inherit immunity to lower weapon enchantment levels - that's not rock paper scissors, it's binary pass or fail, and that I can understand why Obsidian decided against it. They went for weapon type immunites, but didn't insist upon them like BG2's golems, so they feel irrelevant.

The Starcraft comparison isn't very good though, because it predominantly hinges on soft counters that vary dramatically with the player skill involved, ie. vulture kiting micro vs zealots, dragoon/zealot demining, splitting air units vs irradiate, cloning BC Yamato vs Carriers, etc. You as a player have much more agency, because you can scout and even the success of early cheeses hinges upon minor execution from both sides.

The example you mentioned, having no anti-air vs e.g. zerg muta switch, is almost impossible.
For instance as toss, you certainly have some templars for ground, so it's you still wipe his muta stacks if he slips up, but you'd certainly be more favored with corsairs, which you would have if you scouted the spire, player skill (difference) plays a crucial role in interactions, that's something you can't have(to such an extent) in a IE PRPG. The hardest counters ones iirc are DT/cloaked wraith vs no obs toss, but that has interaction in the form of main army gas deficit and scouting. The level of personal responsibilty/failure in sc is much higher.

Éder is not racist, btw.

I just wrote a couple of pages ago that they're rewriting the character with SJW concepts and it was expected because the writers are tumblerinas butthurt that Trump won and will be their president for the next 8 years.

I didn't even think fucking Durance was racist, he just seemed to have a chip on his shoulder against everyone.
 

Kev Inkline

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I got an idea: Let's collect enough money for the backer NPC (1.500$) level and make him a real racist called Irence. Could be from Vailian Republics, for instance?
 

AN4RCHID

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So if McA only wrote part of Durance, who wrote the rest?
Carrie and Eric did some editing and in-dialogue prose for him IIRC. He's still MCA's baby and I wouldn't want any of the new writing team to try to take him over.

Ghostwriting Eder vs. Durance:
It's not that simple.
First, it is possible that Fenstermaker will return. Second, if not, I agree that he did a very good job on Eader, but I imagine the writing is not that difficult to replicate by someone else. After all, Eder is a pretty normal guy without any major quirks or idiosyncrasies in the way he talks, behaves etc.

That they changed Éder to evil white racist shows that Obsidian can't write a normal guy anymore to save their lives (or company).
I think it's great as long as they don't make it some big moral character arc where Eder learns to be a hippy and love everyone equally. Having a likeable character who has some racist views will mass-trigger the fanfic/fanart crowd that was obsessed over Eder.
 

Maculo

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I think it's great as long as they don't make it some big moral character arc where Eder learns to be a hippy and love everyone equally. Having a likeable character who has some racist views will mass-trigger the fanfic/fanart crowd that was obsessed over Eder.
I fully expect that to happen though. From what I understood of the update, companions can get into fights and you can either pick a side or mediate. Based on that, I fully expect Eder and the Orlan character to get into it, and we either have mediate, call Eder out on it, or bully the orlan. Obviously, the only answer is to bully the orlan and side with Eder, but we know the "good" ending will likely be to "educate" Eder, so he becomes sensible to someone on the West Coast, USA in 2016.
 

Turjan

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I got an idea: Let's collect enough money for the backer NPC (1.500$) level and make him a real racist called Irence. Could be from Vailian Republics, for instance?
Oh, like Pallegina? I can see that. She already has the right complexion of white. This would be like twins.
 
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Irenaeus

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I got an idea: Let's collect enough money for the backer NPC (1.500$) level and make him a real racist called Irence. Could be from Vailian Republics, for instance?
Oh, like Pallegina? I can see that. She already has the right complexion of white. This would be like twins.

This is what I actually look like:

Irenaeus was on the show too:
67034849.jpg

This is what I look like:
zNin31B.jpg
 
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It's not that simple. I agree Fenstermaker did a very good job on him, but I imagine the writing is not that difficult to replicate by someone else. After all, Eder is a pretty normal guy without any major quirks or idiosyncrasies in the way he talks, behaves etc.
I doubt it's that simple. To know how Eder would react, or if he would react, in a given situation, or to a given line, especially with those NPC interactions they have going on... The original writer would have to pass on a thick file of background on that character to the new writer, and my guess is that it would be pretty hard to preserve the original character after that change.

BTW why would people continue to want to believe Durance was "written" by Avellone after Avellone himself denied this multiple times?
Yeah, I asked Avellone something about the end of Durance's arc once (and why the very end was shit, when everything else was fucking stellar), and it was obvious that he wasn't sure what I was talking about. Avellone probably created the character, the characterization, maybe storyboarded him, wrote some fluff pieces to get a feel for the character, and so on, but he didn't actually write-write the actual Durance as he was implemented into the game, and probably didn't actually write any of his dialogue. Had Avellone had a chance to write that himself, I doubt he'd accepted the Durance/Grieving Mother arc being practically scrapped.

Interesting. Do we have any idea who might have written the actual dialogue for Durance?
Edit nvm, saw Infinitrons post.

Well, makes me wish only harder that Eric will do some writing for PoE2.
 
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golgo21

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nice photo irenaeus,now take one without holding your breath.
 

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