Game News Pillars of Eternity II Fig Update #58: Forgotten Sanctum DLC coming December 13th, Patch 4.0 Preview

[razvedchiki]

isnt the new woedica challenge good news?since spamming the same awsome powers each encounter made the combat uninteresting and difficult fights trivial.

Darth Roxor i summon ye to fullfil yer oath!

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Encounters are balanced around spamming, so the only thing this will do is you'll have to rest spam. Unless if you combine it with Rymgrand challenge.

 

[Safav Hamon]

Unpopular opinion, but I liked the move to per-encounter abilities.

Designing encounters around using most of your abilities meant there were virtually no trash mobs. This worked exceptionally well in the arena DLC, where every fight felt like a challenging boss fight.

 

[Tao]

Vancian system must die.

Fight me.

 

[Safav Hamon]

I would like to see a vancian casting system that's different than 'rest to recover spells.'

In J.E Sawyers proposed historical turn-based RPG, you would have to collect ingredients and perform ritual incantations in order to cast magic. Now that is cool!

 

[Rivmusique]

Leave the last mob in every pack up for your cipher to farm focus, get brilliant on every party members until resources are back. Woedica challenge solved.

 

[Elex]

Unpopular opinion, but I liked the move to per-encounter abilities.

Designing encounters around using most of your abilities meant there were virtually no trash mobs. This worked exceptionally well in the arena DLC, where every fight felt like a challenging boss fight.

and every fight become the same, that mean all fights become trash fights.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Vancian system must die.

Fight me.

While I have lost the faith, any suitable alternative needs to keep the power and uniqueness intact. I have yet to see a departure from a D&D style spell-casting that had the same power, charm, or utility. The only acceptable alternative I have been able to come up with is incorporating a backlash mechanic. Basically, a manageable, push-your-luck mechanic where the more powerful the spell, the more likely it is to fail with disastrous results. That way players can cast whatever spell without limit, but will either self-enforce through restraint or catastrophe. It also provides a gambling like thrill.

 

[Riddler]

Vancian system must die.

Fight me.

While I have lost the faith, any suitable alternative needs to keep the power and uniqueness intact. I have yet to see a departure from a D&D style spell-casting that had the same power, charm, or utility. The only acceptable alternative I have been able to come up with is incorporating a backlash mechanic. Basically, a manageable, push-your-luck mechanic where the more powerful the spell, the more likely it is to fail with disastrous results. That way players can cast whatever spell without limit, but will either self-enforce through restraint or catastrophe. It also provides a gambling like thrill.

Why not just make dungeons into "instances" that you cannot backtrack out of without failing whatever quest you're doing and the monsters+loot disappearing. Resting is only allowed at predesignated spots.

This would make balancing possible while still allowing for resource management and resource draining encounters.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Vancian system must die.

Fight me.

Sawyer killed it, Owlcat ressed it. Long live Vancian!

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Vancian system must die.

Fight me.

While I have lost the faith, any suitable alternative needs to keep the power and uniqueness intact. I have yet to see a departure from a D&D style spell-casting that had the same power, charm, or utility. The only acceptable alternative I have been able to come up with is incorporating a backlash mechanic. Basically, a manageable, push-your-luck mechanic where the more powerful the spell, the more likely it is to fail with disastrous results. That way players can cast whatever spell without limit, but will either self-enforce through restraint or catastrophe. It also provides a gambling like thrill.

Why not just make dungeons into "instances" that you cannot backtrack out of without failing whatever quest you're doing and the monsters+loot disappearing. Resting is only allowed at predesignated spots.

This would make balancing possible while still allowing for resource management and resource draining encounters.

Too finicky. Too vulnerable to design execution. Eliminating resting for ability use allows for better consistency in creator design, and player freedom. Resting also imparts some suspension of disbelief on it own, when it comes to resting in a dungeon that your are actively putting under siege. A backlash mechanic self-enforces one way or another. You're not going to spam your most powerful spells when they have a chance to sabotage you or your party. You're going to play it safe for most encounters, and push your luck when you need to. In having your spell caster be less reliable, it provides incentive for traditional party structure, with non-casters forming the backbone. Fighters will be more than just caddies.

 

[Lhynn]

Challenges sound cool. But it's still the same game with the same horribly designed system and dumb story.

Doubt it's even worth the broadband id spend pirating it.

 

[Bohr]

You're going to play it safe for most encounters, and push your luck when you need to.

Sounds like instead of rest spamming this will encourage save scumming, when the "disastrous results" arrive. Every system has its drawbacks, I suppose, just depends what one's priorities are.

 

[Tao]

I don't find spells limits per day and per level as bad thing, i like those, but to be limited to memorize a set of spells to use in a day when you already have to search and transcribe scrolls to you grimoire kill the fun for me and, in my experience playing PnP, for everyone else too. Nobody goes wizard but autistic retards like me sometimes, it's always a sorcerer if the party need a magic man.

I would like something in between wizard and sorcerer: You learn spell like a wizard (copying in the grimoire), you can cast those like a sorcerer, you have a limit of cast per day/per level.

Arcanist in Pathfinder is a class very close to this but it's very gimped to not make wizard obsolete.

Edit: While i am at it: it would be nice too if you dont need to go full green arrow when you use all you spells per day. Give at least some usefull basic lvl 0 attack. PoE and PoE2 solution for this was welcoming.

 

[Maculo]

Woedica challenge intrigues me. I enjoyed Deadfire enough that I would install again with all the challenges, DLC, and bugfixes. Can you have multiple challenges applied at once?

 

[AwesomeButton]

I'm skeptical about Woedica's challenge being especially fun as it is. What I imagine is a mod that removes health regen for all (not just party members), makes some, though not all abilities per-rest, makes at least some spells castable outside of combat (healing, buffs), and rebalances the number of casts per rest. As it stands, the challenge looks like grind.

Wael's challenge on the other hand is outright stupid. UI handicapping, that's your challenge?

 

[Safav Hamon]

and every fight become the same, that mean all fights become trash fights.

How does it make every fight the same? That criticism is more valid of games with vancian casting, which are intentionally populated with trash mobs.

When you compare Deadfire to the first game that had vancian casting, the encounter design in Deadfire is far more diverse and creative.

 

[wtrboy]

I just couldn't get into the first 2 DLCs, especially Beast of Winter...hope this is better.

 

[Shilandra]

and every fight become the same, that mean all fights become trash fights.

How does it make every fight the same? That criticism is more valid of games with vancian casting, which are intentionally populated with trash mobs.

When you compare Deadfire to the first game that had vancian casting, the encounter design in Deadfire is far more diverse and creative.

For me, vancian casting was a take it or leave it kind of system. I never found it really bad when games did use it but I was also far from troubled when they didn't.

But for some reason, I really, really like vancian in kingmaker. I cant exactly explain why, maybe its the variety of spells, maybe its the encounter design, maybe its the power of spells or the balance of resting, but if you asked me if I wanted them to switch over to another magic system I would have had no real opinion about it. But for kingmaker that answer would be a hard no and I couldn't see this game doing anything else.

with regards to pillars I think you cant really just haphazardly switch between one system or the other because I feel like the game being designed around it goes a long way to whether or not the casting system is fun.

 

[Alpan]

I don't recall a single occasion in PoE where resting was restricted (but then you didn't need to rest often anyway, even in PotD), so I'm not sure what the Woedica challenge is supposed to accomplish. The strategic considerations of Vancian spellcasting require resting restrictions, otherwise it just becomes resting spam.

 

[Elex]

I would like something in between wizard and sorcerer: You learn spell like a wizard (copying in the grimoire) you can cast those like a sorcerer, you have a limit of cast per day/per level

that sound like the 5th edition D&D wizard. 5th edtion also have 0th level usefull spells.


Table: The Wizard shows how many spell slots you have to cast your spells of 1st level and higher. To cast one of these spells, you must expend a slot of the spell’s level or higher. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a long rest.

You prepare the list of wizard spells that are available for you to cast. To do so, choose a number of wizard spells from your spellbook equal to your Intelligence modifier + your wizard level (minimum of one spell). The spells must be of a level for which you have spell slots.
You can change your list of prepared spells when you finish a long rest. Preparing a new list of wizard spells requires time spent studying your spellbook and memorizing the incantations and gestures you must make to cast the spell: at least 1 minute per spell level for each spell on your list.

 

[Joni Odin von Hassenstein]

Please tell me it's possible to disable ship respawn!?

 

[Delterius]

One additional sub-class per class

Hopefully the new wizard subclass won't suck class

in before wild mage

 

[Safav Hamon]

There's already a wild mage subclass in the game

 

[The Wall]

Wasn't this (presumably) final DLC supposed to add new (presumably) creative and powerful spells and abilities across all classes with (presumably) magic classes getting best deal out of it? I could swear in Josh Sawyer's favourite unicycle that it was promised sometime, somewhere...

Or was I only dreamin?