Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Infinitron]

Where all my trash mobs at?? http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/85264-301-too-little-enemies/

Talk about first-world problems.

Where did the Xaurips go?

This sounds like it could be fruitful territory to explore in the sequel, Pillars of Eternity 2: Return of the Xaurip.

HOW DARE YOU CALL THEM TRASH http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/85...and-too-esoteric-also-purple-prose/?p=1792320 #moblivesmatter

 

[Ninjerk]

How can you stand to go there?

 

[Roguey]

I don't mind the easy difficulty of the Normal and the Hard mode myself, I understand that. But there is no way anyone can argue that the hardest difficulty of the game should be easy. Do these people actually believe that the game's sales are going to suffer if PotD is very challenging? The only thing that will happen is that hardcore gamers will have a lot to discuss on various forums thus advertising your game for free.

What do i have to discuss with the refined gentlemen here now? How we are steamrolling everything?

And I am certain that they have testers that would appreciate some more challenge on PotD. Some of them are around here.

Only Josh, Bobby Null, and a couple of others at most could test it on path of the damned as it is. The only way they could make it harder would be to increase the enemy stats even further which is risky when it comes to enjoyment.

Feel free to go after The Ultimate

Complete the White March and Pillars of Eternity, defeat all dragons, all bounties, and both archmages on Expert, Trial of Iron, and Path of the Damned modes without taking any companions after Cilant Lîs.

RE: Sawyer making games easy.

Is that true? Normies frequently complain about the difficulty of FNV and there are reviews where reviewers proudly claim that PoE is brutally difficult on easy.

A lot of players are... not very good. "Bad" you might say.

Forum posters are a really small segment of the total audience of RPG players.

 

[Fry]

I think the thrust of that argument is that BG1 was made by a green horn team of developers who had no real guideline. The fact that 15 years later a company of veteran developers are still performing the same hat trick just speaks volumes of either ineptitude, laziness or both.

Here's the thing... you can't both reject all responsibility for defining a better system yourself and also claim the people who put together PoE are lazy and inept. You don't know what you're talking about.

You can say,"I'm a consumer and the result sucks", but that's a bit useless unless you can at least provide some feedback on how your experience as player could be improved. If not IE, if not PoE, then when has a RTwP CRPG been done well in your opinion?

If there is anyone saying the IE games aren't exploitable with a straight face.. I haven't seen it and would probably laugh at them loudly if I did.

I'm sure I could find a few if I bothered, but let's say this... this site is full of people who think IE's laughable exploits are better than PoE's laughable exploits.

 

[Immortal]

Here's the thing... you can't both reject all responsibility for defining a better system yourself and also claim the people who put together PoE are lazy and inept. You don't know what you're talking about.

I'm not saying that's my argument but there is something to be said about a dog who can't learn a few new tricks in 15 years.

Not to drag out the dead horse here - I don't think exploitable combat is a bad thing, just that we shouldn't blame players when they use them and then say the game is easy.

Fix the issue or make the game harder. Don't slap the player.

then when has a RTwP CRPG been done well in your opinion?

Arcanum?

 

[Fry]

 

[Prime Junta]

Call me a PedanticJunta but every time we have this discussion it feels like the goal posts weren't where I left them.

I'll play your little game of "where does the soccer ball go now?" -
If I beat the adra dragon without even attempting to figure out how armor works in this game, the last bastion of respect I ever had for your opinions is forfeited.

How would you describe your style of playing this game? Do you move a lot, or react a lot when the Ai does something (e.g. targets one of your toons?)

Yup I kite quite a bit.

That would explain it. I kind of suck at highly mobile/twitch/DotA style gameplay, so I play the game with the systems instead. I have heard from other highly movement-oriented players that it can break the AI targeting and thereby trivialises the combat. I haven't been able to do it myself -- would certainly need more practice -- but I've no doubt it can be done.

So yeah, looks like you might be SoL. In the base game there's only going to be a handful of optional encounters that will challenge you, and you will be able to out-level even them if you hit them late. Sorry.

 

[Prime Junta]

As for PoE's combat mechanics, enough has already been said. I think it's obvious they were not conceived to be easily comprehended by humans, looking at the amount of calculations needed to make a tactical decision during combat.

It is not all that difficult for most humans to tell that one number is larger than another number. Most humans can also understand percentages, which helpfully appear above potential targets when you hover on them.

 

[AwesomeButton]

As for PoE's combat mechanics, enough has already been said. I think it's obvious they were not conceived to be easily comprehended by humans, looking at the amount of calculations needed to make a tactical decision during combat.

It is not all that difficult for most humans to tell that one number is larger than another number. Most humans can also understand percentages, which helpfully appear above potential targets when you hover on them.

Let's not start this argument all over again. Because you'll lose.

As if you don't know that the percentages show chances of scoring a hit. They can't tell you more than that. Please reread what I wrote - "calculations needed to make a tactical devision". If the only tactical decision you need to take is "Should I hit this or that guy" and it can be made solely by comparing percentages, the game would have been irredeemable shit. Fortunately, combat is more complex than that.

A real-life example is choosing between casting X or Y spell, for example one spell being a party buff, the other an enemy debuff, and having to take into account 4-5 afflictions which are currently affecting your party or the enemies. Then what if you have a choice between multiple debuffs, all affecting different enemy defenses with different percentages? Oh, but I forget - "most humans can understand percentages", right? Well, please tell me the result of "Movement speed reduced by 1.25" when I don't know what's the initial movement speed? Or how much of an effect would be "?Deflection - 20"? This is laughable compared to the light and simple D&D rules.

Seriously defending PoE's combat system is a very ungrateful task.

 

[Nihiliste]

I'm about half way through a new play through and I'm actually really enjoying it with the latest patch. Obviously, many of the flaws are still present but the overall gameplay experience is significantly better. I can see a foundation now where they could build a great game for PoE2 if they take a more focused approach.

I think they have to start with a new character/premise though, because I feel the party is already getting quite overpowered halfway through the game.

 

[ArchAngel]

Immortal Try making a beeline for this quest once you hit Defiance Bay: http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/The_Forgotten

I'm curious to see what'll happen.

I tackle that at level 6 with a full party.

Only tough fight in Defiance Bay is the Lighthouse. And that was on Hard. I can assume it is much harder on PotD.

 

[Prime Junta]

Immortal Try making a beeline for this quest once you hit Defiance Bay: http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/The_Forgotten

I'm curious to see what'll happen.

I tackle that at level 6 with a full party.

Only tough fight in Defiance Bay is the Lighthouse. And that was on Hard. I can assume it is much harder on PotD.

There's one more. Two, if you count one on the bridge just outside. Three, if you just beeline the main quest and go into it early. (Always assuming you don't go into them overleveled.)

Spoiler

The crypt in Heritage Hill, with the named banshee who's charmed a bunch of justiciars, and the party of adventurers on the bridge in the quest you get from the Vailian embassy. The third one is the final series of fights in the Crucible Knights questline.

 

[Infinitron]

Oh yeah, the Forge Knights are badass. An uncharacteristic choice, too, to only use them in one quest in the entire game.

 

[ArchAngel]

Immortal Try making a beeline for this quest once you hit Defiance Bay: http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/The_Forgotten

I'm curious to see what'll happen.

I tackle that at level 6 with a full party.

Only tough fight in Defiance Bay is the Lighthouse. And that was on Hard. I can assume it is much harder on PotD.

There's one more. Two, if you count one on the bridge just outside. Three, if you just beeline the main quest and go into it early. (Always assuming you don't go into them overleveled.)

Spoiler

The crypt in Heritage Hill, with the named banshee who's charmed a bunch of justiciars, and the party of adventurers on the bridge in the quest you get from the Vailian embassy. The third one is the final series of fights in the Crucible Knights questline.

I had no problem with any of them except the Lighthouse. I only had 4 hard or harder fights in the whole game: Lighthouse, Adra Dragon, Death Knight

Spoiler

Raedric

and fight vs that Fire Drake south of Defiance Bay (although this one wasn't hard as I did it in one try but it lasted long enough that I used almost all my spells on it and many of my consumable resources).

 

[Trashos]

Doh! I have never seen the Forge Knights. I always side with the Doemenels. My next playthrough I will be a paladin, so I will side with the Knights to see it.

 

[Rivmusique]

Only playthrough I've done with the CKs was after WMpt1 hit, so I ended up fighting them quite overlevelled. They didn't seem any different than those other purple animats you see around, is it so different than fighting those things in Ondra's Gift at low tide?

 

[Infinitron]

Only playthrough I've done with the CKs was after WMpt1 hit, so I ended up fighting them quite overlevelled. They didn't seem any different than those other purple animats you see around, is it so different than fighting those things in Ondra's Gift at low tide?

When I played the game, they had a killer chain lightning-type area attack that would sometimes one hit-kill my squishier party members. I think I was around level 8.

 

[Immortal]

I kind of suck at highly mobile/twitch/DotA style gameplay,

Spoiler

 

[Trashos]

How does a full playthrough feel with the expansions installed? Does it feel like "OK, this is a bit better overall" or does it feel like an incoherent mess?

I am talking about full completionist playthroughs, from start to finish, with both expansions installed.

 

[Excidium II]

Probably feels like almost every CRPG ever where you have an urgent goal but constantly ignore it while doing unrelated jobs on the other side of the country.

 

[Bubbles]

I haven't played much of The White March yet, but I'm sure they give a solid in-game reason why you'd be ignoring the search for the cure to your insanity for a couple of weeks. I assume spending so much time in the new areas will also have an effect on the PC's mental health in the endgame.

 

[CptMace]

Really, that's what you'd dislike about TWM ?
Given, this obviously isn't in the game.

 

[Prime Junta]

I kind of suck at highly mobile/twitch/DotA style gameplay,

Spoiler

I prefer to avoid pausing as much as I'm able. It slows things down too much for my blood.

 

[Immortal]

I kind of suck at highly mobile/twitch/DotA style gameplay,

Spoiler

I prefer to avoid pausing as much as I'm able. It slows things down too much for my blood.

> Can't Handle Twitch Gameplay
> Pausing too slow..?

 

[Prime Junta]

> Can't Handle Twitch Gameplay
> Pausing too slow..?

...therefore, I explore the systems, and get a kick out of finding ways to neutralise enemy abilities while getting through their defences.

I honestly don't get what's so hard to understand about this.

(Edit: I used to think this is the way everybody plays systems-rich games like this. It was only when I encountered a certain Australian that I found out that some people play these like mini-RTS's, and engage with the systems only to the minimal extent needed to support that. Even practiced that a bit, but decided that it wasn't my thing.)