Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Infinitron]

Every RPG actually has two difficulty levels, "difficulty when winging it" and "difficulty when striving for zero-knockouts-playthrough". The latter is an artificial constraint that many/possibly most advanced players impose upon themselves.

 

[Prime Junta]

Sawyer would probably complain that Might-maxing is not the way it's supposed to be played.

More reason to question if this game really has the depth that everyone claims in theory / on paper that it does.
If I can muddle my way through with a retarded group of characters without strategic planning at all on POTD.. why should I give a shit? I thought this was the be all end all?

If By Act 4 I haven't died once.. I am making a rant thread about how Infinitron and Prime Junta are full of shit.

The main quest is easy. You can definitely muddle through that without much trouble.

Try diving into the Endless Paths or taking on the bounties. There's also a whole bunch of optional encounters that are pretty tough really if you get into them at all early (Searing Falls, the lighthouse in Ondra's Gift, the crypt in Heritage Hill to name three off the top of my head). Undead Raedric is a real bastard if you take him on when offered.

 

[Fry]

Easier than DAO is a bit exaggerated.

A bit? Try massively.

 

[Trashos]

Easier than DAO is a bit exaggerated.

I don't think so. I like PoE more than DAO as a game, but DAO was way more challenging on the hardest difficulty.

 

[Immortal]

Sawyer would probably complain that Might-maxing is not the way it's supposed to be played.

More reason to question if this game really has the depth that everyone claims in theory / on paper that it does.
If I can muddle my way through with a retarded group of characters without strategic planning at all on POTD.. why should I give a shit? I thought this was the be all end all?

If By Act 4 I haven't died once.. I am making a rant thread about how Infinitron and Prime Junta are full of shit.

The main quest is easy. You can definitely muddle through that without much trouble.

Try diving into the Endless Paths or taking on the bounties. There's also a whole bunch of optional encounters that are pretty tough really if you get into them at all early (Searing Falls, the lighthouse in Ondra's Gift, the crypt in Heritage Hill to name three off the top of my head). Undead Raedric is a real bastard if you take him on when offered.

Call me a PedanticJunta but every time we have this discussion it feels like the goal posts weren't where I left them.

I'll play your little game of "where does the soccer ball go now?" -
If I beat the adra dragon without even attempting to figure out how armor works in this game, the last bastion of respect I ever had for your opinions is forfeited.

 

[HatTrick]

Has there been any cRPG that wasn't piss easy if you know what you're doing? Shit, the Codex Top 10 RPGs are downright casual in terms of difficulty.

 

[Excidium II]

Every RPG actually has two difficulty levels, "difficulty when winging it" and "difficulty when striving for zero-knockouts-playthrough". The latter is an artificial constraint that many/possibly most advanced players impose upon themselves.

That's how I play. I also try not resting for as long as I can.

 

[Infinitron]

Immortal Try making a beeline for this quest once you hit Defiance Bay: http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/The_Forgotten

I'm curious to see what'll happen.

 

[Immortal]

Has there been any cRPG that wasn't piss easy if you know what you're doing? Shit, the Codex Top 10 RPGs are downright casual in terms of difficulty.

I have no idea what I am doing.
I am slamming continue through dialogues (which is giving me early onsets of carpal tunnel) and just following map nodes. I have no idea how the character systems work other than higher might = more damage.
I pick feats and skills on a whim..

I heard someone say grease spell was good.. Casted it.. realized it wasn't the same as oil from Divinity Original Sin.. swapped my grimoire immediately. Damage Damage Damage.

Immortal Try making a beeline for this quest once you hit Defiance Bay: http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/The_Forgotten

I'm curious to see what'll happen.

Sure - Maybe I will stream record it.

 

[Trashos]

Immortal Try making a beeline for this quest once you hit Defiance Bay: http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/The_Forgotten

I'm curious to see what'll happen.

I tackle that at level 6 with a full party.

 

[Morkar Left]

I remember that fight being easy. Not as laughable easy as the usual fights in PoE but still not challenging. Baldur's Gate first "Boss" fight at the Friendly Inn when arriving the first time was already more challenging.

 

[Prime Junta]

Call me a PedanticJunta but every time we have this discussion it feels like the goal posts weren't where I left them.

I'll play your little game of "where does the soccer ball go now?" -
If I beat the adra dragon without even attempting to figure out how armor works in this game, the last bastion of respect I ever had for your opinions is forfeited.

How would you describe your style of playing this game? Do you move a lot, or react a lot when the Ai does something (e.g. targets one of your toons?)

 

[Excidium II]

I remember that fight being easy. Not as laughable easy as the usual fights in PoE but still not challenging. Baldur's Gate first "Boss" fight at the Friendly Inn was already more challenging.

Sawyer wept on that one, first time around everyone missed first round and he one shot me with magic missile.

 

[Immortal]

Call me a PedanticJunta but every time we have this discussion it feels like the goal posts weren't where I left them.

I'll play your little game of "where does the soccer ball go now?" -
If I beat the adra dragon without even attempting to figure out how armor works in this game, the last bastion of respect I ever had for your opinions is forfeited.

How would you describe your style of playing this game? Do you move a lot, or react a lot when the Ai does something (e.g. targets one of your toons?)

Yup I kite quite a bit.

I remember that fight being easy. Not as laughable easy as the usual fights in PoE but still not challenging. Baldur's Gate first "Boss" fight at the Friendly Inn when arriving the first time was already more challenging.

Tarnesh could one shot your PC if you're still level 1. Maybe not the most fair fight but still made me as a child always dread hearing "Hi Friend" when I hit that staircase.

 

[Excidium II]

Kiting, abusing aggro leash, blocking doorways. The PotD experience.

 

[Lyre Mors]

Kiting, abusing aggro leash, blocking doorways. The PotD experience.

If you choose to exploit it as such, then yes, that would be the PotD experience.

Having some self-control and approaching these battles without cheese tactics that are borderline cheat codes is definitely the more enjoyable way to go about it.

 

[Immortal]

Kiting, abusing aggro leash, blocking doorways. The PotD experience.

If you choose to exploit it as such, then yes, that would be the PotD experience.

Having some self-control and approaching these battles without cheese tactics that are borderline cheat codes is definitely the more enjoyable way to go about it.

It's a players fault when developers are too lazy to plan ahead for blatant abuse of mechanics. Mkay.
PoE is just as abusable as BG1 when it comes to fireballing creatures off screen. Some things never change.

 

[Fry]

Feel free to design your own exploit-immune game, boss.

We'll be waiting.

 

[Lyre Mors]

It's a players fault when developers are too lazy to plan ahead for blatant abuse of mechanics. Mkay.
PoE is just as abusable as BG1 when it comes to fireballing creatures off screen. Some things never change.

The design is clearly flawed, particularly when approached by those of us who have been playing IE games for years. I guess the point I'm making is there still is fun and challenge to be found if we choose to ignore these glaring flaws. At least I have found it to be as such after I decided I was going to actively avoid exploiting the inherent flaws found in the top-down RtwP genre.

 

[Excidium II]

Feel free to design your own exploit-immune game, boss.

We'll be waiting.

For the PoE exploits it wouldn't take much TBH. They even did combat them to some degree in the expansions from what I've read here.

 

[Ninjerk]

Spoiler

guy has no self control smdh fam just play the gaem

 

[Immortal]

Feel free to design your own exploit-immune game, boss.

We'll be waiting.

The famous vestige of a last ditch effort to defend something broken. "Well you do something better".
It's not my job to do something better, I already have a job and it's (thankfully) not a game developer.

However, If I did produce a product and my customer thinks it's shit I don't turn around, look him straight in the eyes and with an air of superiority say "Well you do it then!" and then strut off like I just dropped the hot bantz. Are you 12?

That aside -
The solutions have been discussed already countless times. The most obvious one is make the game turn based, that alone would solve the most blatant abuses that are still somehow rearing their ugly heads 15 years later.

 

[Fry]

However, If I did produce a product and my customer thinks it's shit I don't turn around, look him straight in the eyes and with an air of superiority say "Well you do it then!" and then strut off like I just dropped the hot bantz. Are you 12?.

Fair enough.

Frankly, my argument is less with you than with those who bang on endlessly about exploits in PoE while simultaneously failing to see the exact same shit in the IE games. If your position is that RTwP is inherently broken, well... you may have a point.

 

[Immortal]

However, If I did produce a product and my customer thinks it's shit I don't turn around, look him straight in the eyes and with an air of superiority say "Well you do it then!" and then strut off like I just dropped the hot bantz. Are you 12?.

Fair enough.

Frankly, my argument is less with you than with those who bang on endlessly about exploits in PoE while simultaneously failing to see the exact same shit in the IE games. If your position is that RTwP is inherently broken, well... you may have a point.

I think the thrust of that argument is that BG1 was made by a green horn team of developers who had no real guideline. The fact that 15 years later a company of veteran developers are still performing the same hat trick just speaks volumes of either ineptitude, laziness or both.

If there is anyone saying the IE games aren't exploitable with a straight face.. I haven't seen it and would probably laugh at them loudly if I did.

 

[AwesomeButton]

I've been asking myself the same question, and the answer I come up with is - actually they had a great guideline - AD&D, and a background in PnP. You can actually read their games' dialogues and imagine you're listening to a DM. Probably because they constantly imagined it this way, I guess?

PoE's text can't be read out loud by an unprepared person, who hasn't rehearsed it. That speaks a lot imo. As for PoE's combat mechanics, enough has already been said. I think it's obvious they were not conceived to be easily comprehended by humans, looking at the amount of calculations needed to make a tactical decision during combat.

I recently read the DM Manual for AD&D 2 and it was funny to try and spot the bits of advice for good DMing which PoE broke. Yes, you could say I'm speaking from the position of the armchair expert, but unlike most armchair experts, we have the original IE games to point to, as examples of people with PnP experience who did things right.