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Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

Infinitron

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Bioware can't "go bankrupt", it's not a company anymore. The Bioware studios can be shut down by EA. But presumably that's what you really meant.
 

Theldaran

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Oct 10, 2015
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1,772
Yes, I meant a spectacular doom of butthurt and drama with ME Andromeda. And EA not getting amused. But, you know, Fallout 4 sold like hotcakes (even though it was pretty much the last shot).
 

Fry

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Aug 29, 2013
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1,922
Not going to happen either way. Since they went free-to-play, The Old Republic actually turns a profit. And of course any new Mass Effect will sell a billion copies.
 

Kaivokz

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Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
1,509
I came upon some free-time this past week and decided I'd get the ultimate achievement.

I9NXGPo.png


Went with a wizard using full plate+small shield. Took about 3 minutes to kill Llengrath and I lost exactly 150 health in the fight. Here are my stats. The first image is not completely maxed out; two of my food items wore off and shield/armor aren't legendary, but it is close to what I was running for all the hard fights. (Apparently greater peatsucker oozes are more powerful than any of the dragons or archmages?) Pretty fun.

Came upon this only just now but awesome guide. Only question I wanted to ask: how did you get the insane stats for your first image?! Please share your buffs!! Thanks

The picture is missing a few food buffs, my pre-fight stats were this:

Might 26 (Base 18) - +4 Maegfolc Skull, +3 Dragon Meat, +1 Gift of the Machine

Con 21 (Base 15) - +4 Iron Circle, +2 Cookies

Dex 13 (Base 7) - +4 Viettro's Formal Footwear, +2 Sweet Pie

Per 27 (Base 20) - +1 Song of Heavens, +3 Garrison Resting Bonus, +1 Cookies, +2 Enchanted Armor

Int 16 (Base 14) - +2 Casserole

Res 8 (Base 4) - +1 Berath's Boon, +3 Dragon Meat

That picture was snapped toward the end of the fight (hence the food wearing off), when I was low on spells, so I used Citzal's Martial Power (+8 mig/con/dex) which would have brought might up to 34 (but the dragon meat wore off 34-3=31), same with constitution and dex.

For deflection, my primary bonuses were: +29 Alia Braccia, +10 Defiant Resolve, +5 Superior Deflection, +12 Cape of the Master Mystic, +25 Llengrath's Displaced Image, and +75 from Arcane Veil.

I also took bear's fortitude and snake's reflexes (+10 fort, +10 ref) to resist knock down/stun type effects. Will is the least important for a solo run (except for one specific bounty, which I cheesed). Ring of protection +9. Reflex gets +20 from displaced image. Defiant resolve adds 10 to all of these as well. Llengrath's Safeguard adds 20 to each defense, but doesn't stack with displaced image. It also adds 10 DR. I can't recall if that stacks with Spirit Shield's +3 DR.
 

Magnificate

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Joined
Oct 23, 2015
Messages
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Their recovery system is pretty dumb, and they really need to simplify it.
Simplify? For what reason? It's not PnP, we've got the computer to handle all calculations. What I would like to see, is the actual number for 'speed' displayed somewhere in the character sheet.
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
The IE round system had way better combat pacing and it was largely due to the structure of actions, not the speed. You could increase the game speed, I played at 1.33x speed always.
 

Rivmusique

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Does fast forward not become unusable during combat for you? IIRC, mine has been like that on every version I've played.

By unusable I don't mean hard to handle, I mean that pressing the key/clicking the arrow during battle does nothing or if it was on "fast" during exploration it drops right down to normal as soon as combat starts.
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
If you were talking to me, I was talking about the IE games AI Updates setting, which changes the game FPS speed. I haven't touched Pillars since April 2015.
 

mitochondritom

Educated
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Mar 30, 2016
Messages
69
Slower speed is only the tip of the iceberg though. Their recovery system is pretty dumb, and they really need to simplify it.

I get that you're mad about the non-constant attack rates but you're barking up the wrong tree here

One I realised that you could influence how much time it took to get your guys to make actions again, or that it wasn't fixed ala Baldurs Gate I enjoyed trying to optimise my guys for their respective roles. It also added a decent way to mitigate the advantages just sticking everyone in plate armor for huge DR ratings, even if it doesn't make much sense rationally (why would armour influence your ability to cast spells?). It felt more of my choice to put Kana in some scale mail to balance his attack rate vs his defensive capabilities instead of some bullshit arbitrary DnD rules dictate thieves can only wear leathers.
 

Sensuki

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Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
It's a trade off - adding an element of choice while worsening the flow of gameplay.

That factor (the armor) is only one part of a complex system - the way things are calculated, the number of modifiers and the lack of UI transparency all add to the issue.
 

mitochondritom

Educated
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
69
I don't disagree on that! It's hugely confusing to work it all out. I tried to compare dual wielding flails or a sword / shield combo with the bash ability and it was pretty much impossible. I also hate how the list of all the effects a character has is arranged and how item ability suppression works.
 

Sizzle

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2012
Messages
2,473
I haven't touched Pillars since April 2015.

Maybe you should, a lot has changed about it since then. Not saying you will like it now, but it might be interesting to see you comment on those changes.
 

darkly180

Barely Literate
Joined
Aug 20, 2016
Messages
2
The picture is missing a few food buffs, my pre-fight stats were this:

Might 26 (Base 18) - +4 Maegfolc Skull, +3 Dragon Meat, +1 Gift of the Machine

Con 21 (Base 15) - +4 Iron Circle, +2 Cookies

Dex 13 (Base 7) - +4 Viettro's Formal Footwear, +2 Sweet Pie

Per 27 (Base 20) - +1 Song of Heavens, +3 Garrison Resting Bonus, +1 Cookies, +2 Enchanted Armor

Int 16 (Base 14) - +2 Casserole

Res 8 (Base 4) - +1 Berath's Boon, +3 Dragon Meat

That picture was snapped toward the end of the fight (hence the food wearing off), when I was low on spells, so I used Citzal's Martial Power (+8 mig/con/dex) which would have brought might up to 34 (but the dragon meat wore off 34-3=31), same with constitution and dex.

For deflection, my primary bonuses were: +29 Alia Braccia, +10 Defiant Resolve, +5 Superior Deflection, +12 Cape of the Master Mystic, +25 Llengrath's Displaced Image, and +75 from Arcane Veil.

I also took bear's fortitude and snake's reflexes (+10 fort, +10 ref) to resist knock down/stun type effects. Will is the least important for a solo run (except for one specific bounty, which I cheesed). Ring of protection +9. Reflex gets +20 from displaced image. Defiant resolve adds 10 to all of these as well. Llengrath's Safeguard adds 20 to each defense, but doesn't stack with displaced image. It also adds 10 DR. I can't recall if that stacks with Spirit Shield's +3 DR.

Thanks for sharing, very helpful for my build.
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
http://www.thumbsticks.com/josh-sawyer-on-building-pillars-of-eternity/


Josh Sawyer on building Pillars of Eternity

Game designer Josh Sawyer is best known for his work on Icewind Dale II, Neverwinter Nights 2 and Fallout: New Vegas. In 2015 he became project director and design lead on Obsidian’s Pillars of Eternity.

The game was inspired — and deliberately intended to evoke — Bioware’s classic Infinity Engine RPGs such as Icewind Dale and Baldurs Gate. The game’s fundraising was a huge success with over $4m raised from 77,000 Kickstarter backers.

In his talk at GDC Europe, Sawyer spoke about the challenges of creating a modern RPG that shares its DNA with much-loved classics from the past.

“We did not think making such a game would be possible until DoubleFine Adventure launched on Kickstarter,” says Sawyer. “Then we decide we definitely has to make a game like this. It took a while to convince our owners that this was a good idea but they relented and we decided we were were going to make an Infinity Engine style game. We wanted it be a combination of elements from Icewind Dale, Baldur’s Gate and Planescape Tournament.”

Nostalgia
Sawyer attributes the success Pillars of Eternity’s Kickstarter to many factors but one of the most important was nostalgia.

“It’s about passion and a longing for a time when we remember playing the games that we love and how great they made us feel,” he says. “And it’s about the (gameplay) challenge presented by a lot of older games. You can find games made today that are still challenging but it’s not as common.”

The danger for Obsidian was that by following such a fondly remembered design lineage it would prove difficult to please everyone. In trying to evoke the past it’s possible to hit the wrong target, design for the wrong audience, or create a game for a niche audience that no longer exists.

“If you over-design to appeal to one tiny niche, you’ll never broaden your appeal at all. The reason why you get a lot of people interested in retro revival games in the first place is that they’re very passionate about the games themselves,” says Sawyer. “And if it doesn’t really have the feel or doesn’t evoke the nostalgia the players are looking for, then we’ve failed.”

The most important thing to capture — above any game mechanic — is the soul of that made the original games so special, explains Sawyer.

“Soul is a very ephemeral thing. When people remember the things that they love, their memory can be selective. It can gloss over a lot and most of what they remember is their emotional attachment to it. So when you modify things you have to be very careful about what you’re modifying. You could tweak one tiny thing that turns out to be a key component that made that something very cool.”


pillars-or-eternity-artwork-2.jpg



Art and design
It was decided early on that the right visual approach for Pillars of Eternity was to use 2D hand-touched environments but to make them come to life with 3D lighting.

“A lot of the art that we looked at for inspiration was from the 2nd edition of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons,” says Sawyer. “This meant using less saturated palettes and relatively realistic weapons.”

There was never any debate about retaining the classic isometric look and feel of the Infinity Engine classics, but subtle tweaks were made to allow for a broader environmental canvas.

“For Pillars of Eternity’s isometric style we wanted dynamic lighting, and of course we’d raised the resolution quite a bit,” says Sawyer. “We used a lower angle for how we rendered exteriors. Most players don’t even notice because it’s only a 7.5 degree difference but what it did was allow us to emphasise a lot of vertical structures.”

GUI
Replicating the classic user interface of the original Infinity Engine games also presented a challenge. Obsidian decided to retain the skeuomorphic look – that mimics real world textures such as wood, metal or stone – for Pillars of Eternity and lay the GUI across the bottom of the screen in one block.

“We wanted to use a layout that borrowed from Icewind Dale II and Planescape Tournament,” says Sawyer.

There was no negative feedback from reviews regarding the GUI but some Kickstarter backers hated it. Eventually — after much online debate — fans modded the layout and reintroduced the classic U-shaped format used in Baldur’s Gate and Baldur’s Gate II.

Another element that was missed by fans were the elaborate and detailed sketches of in-game items.

“We wanted to mimic cursors and icon style but we didn’t have time for item sketches,” says Sawyer. “Item sketches were in all the Infinity Engine games and a lot of people really enjoyed them — and they missed them.”

Item sketches were eventually introduced for Soulbound items the The White March expansion to positive response.


pillars-of-eternity-01.jpg



Game mechanics
The game mechanics for Pillar’s of Eternity were designed to be AD&D-like but with fewer arbitrary limitations. The team wanted to allow the player a large degree of freedom to express themselves in the game.

“We didn’t limit what races you could be, or classes. We didn’t limit who could use certain types of gear,” says Sawyer. “And overall we didn’t rely on hidden heart-pounders that would take players a long time to learn.“

The pace of combat was also something Sawyer was keen to increase, certainly in the game’s early stages.

“This was done to address problems we had in earlier Infinity Engine games, where combat could be very slow. Each round was on a six second timer and each character performed one action, so at the beginning of the game combat moved very, very slowly. It could be very boring.”

The flip side to speeding up combat was that once a player had five or six party members the on-screen action became hard to follow.

“It was exacerbated by the fact we had visual effects that were very over-powering,” Sawyer admits. “So people almost all wound up defaulting to a slower pace after a few hours of gameplay. That was not really the way we wanted it to go. We over corrected in that regard.”

The combat model was revised and is something that will continue to be developed future, says Sawyer.

“We’re looking at adding back in layers of combat complexity. Once you’ve been playing the game for three or four hours you can add in a new layer of complexity. If you’ve been playing the game for twenty hours, you can add in more layers of complexity. That’s why it’s interesting making RPGs; you have a lot of hours over which to introduce new concepts.”

Voice acting
Another cause for concern upon the game’s release was voice acting. Players were confused by its inconsistent use across characters and scenes, the result of a slender audio budget.

“We allocated our resources and spread them out across a lot of characters in a strange way. People played the game and it seemed very random,” Sawyer says. “Random lines would come in, a conversation would start and people would say three lines and the they wouldn’t talk any more. And so it seemed like a bug. But then, in another conversation, they would talk through the whole thing.”

“That was us looking at the resources and dicing them up way too far apart. The lesson we learned was when you have limited resources, don’t spread them too thin.”


pillars-of-eternity-02.jpg



World building

In keeping with the objective of evoking past Infinity Engine classics a traditional fantasy setting was used for Pillars of Eternity.

“Our world is a pretty traditional, pretty standard fantasy setting but we wanted to change a few elements. So, we didn’t have halflings, or gnomes, or orcs. But we had elves and dwarves — a lot of people want to play as those,” says Sawyer. “We decided on a Eurocentric style and setting. A lot of fantasy settings are in this vaguely 12th-15th century, English, French, German kind of place. We wanted to set it in the 16th century with a renaissance zeitgeist so we could capture the feel of a world in change.”

Player feedback
In comparison to other Infinity Engine Games the tone of Pillars of Eternity was rather serious and straight-faced. Much of the feedback from players after release was for the introduction of more silly and funny elements to help lighten the mood.

“Players or reviewers had mixed to favourable reactions about the world and the lore. A lot of people wished there had been more experimental or crazy things, but that’s not really what we set out to do. And a lot of players missed the light-hearted and fun moments that were in the Baldurs Gate games.”

Sawyer concluded by returning to the main challenge of creating Pillars of Eternity, capturing the essence of the game’s inspiration and then dealing with the feedback from a passionate and committed fan base.

“Not every choice that you make when you are developing these games is going to actually get at that soul,” he says. “You have a bunch of ingredients that are going into this mix and if you’re not tasting the sauce once in a while, you don’t really know how it’s coming together.”

And no matter how brutal the feedback can be, Sawyer recommends listening to your fan base.

“Listen to as many of your players as you can,” he advises. “Don’t ignore the vocal minority and also don’t ignore the larger player-base. They are all people who are interested in playing the game.”
 
Self-Ejected

Sacred82

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The most important thing to capture — above any game mechanic — is the soul of that made the original games so special, explains Sawyer.

“Soul is a very ephemeral thing. When people remember the things that they love, their memory can be selective. It can gloss over a lot and most of what they remember is their emotional attachment to it. So when you modify things you have to be very careful about what you’re modifying. You could tweak one tiny thing that turns out to be a key component that made that something very cool.”

tweaking one tiny thing = ripping out the core of the game and replacing it with Asperger's
 

Infinitron

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Enjoy the Revolution! Another revolution around the sun that is. Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/88805-304-update-on-our-next-patch/

Hey guys/gals,

We are working on our next patch. We have quite a list of issues that we'd like to address in this patch. That being said, feel free to comment below with any issues you think we might miss and/or should definitely fix.

Slap hands

- Sking

P.S. We haven't worked out a date yet or if we will do a Beta. I will keep this post updated as we iron these questions out.

If anybody has any bug to whine about you better do it now.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
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Messages
36,925
Congrats to Obsidian for finally fixing that Confident Aim bug that had some of their posters losing their minds.

We used a lower angle for how we rendered exteriors. Most players don’t even notice because it’s only a 7.5 degree difference but what it did was allow us to emphasise a lot of vertical structures.

Sensuki noticed. :rpgcodex:
 

roll-a-die

Magister
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Messages
3,131
Alright so I installed IE Mod for Pillars of Eternity, and am looking at setting up custom stats for each storyline party member. Wondering about what decent but not purely optimal stat spreads for each of them would be. I don't have much experience with the system and without the tool tips that say what stats do, I'm pretty useless.

Anyone got a handy guide of what should be tweaked, and what should just be left as it is, I know Aloth supposedly has an absolutely miserable stat spread supposedly. Unless that's changed in a patch.
 

Roguey

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It's delightful how, nearly a year and half from release, there are posters at the Obsidian forums insisting on balance changes in the (probably) final patch.

I hope Obs doesn't listen to them, since that just increases the likelihood of creating additional bugs. Time to move on.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Austin, TX
Seriously. I want more than anything to have updated UI to see my attack speed, enemy's accuracy etc....but who cares they added like 40 quests to the Stronghold already. No way do we deserve anything more than what we've received already.
 

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