Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Grunker]

The berserker/mindflayer encounter (my personal favorite encounter in the entire game probably), Od Nua dragon, rope bridge Xaurips, large Laguafeth, Ice Dragon, Llenengrath, High Abbot, Radiant.

All are significantly harder than anything below level 10. And that’s just off the top of my head.

 

[Parabalus]

The berserker/mindflayer encounter, Od Nua dragon, rope bridge Xaurips, large Laguafeth, Ice Dragon, Llenengrath, High Abbot, Radiant.

All are significantly harder than anything below level 10. And that’s just off the top of my head.

The Ondrites on the comet map can also be surprisingly difficulty, seen them with >200 defenses.

 

[Lacrymas]

Berserker/mindflayer - I don't know what you are referring to, ergo it didn't make an impression. Od Nua dragon - bullshit encounter that is unlike anything else in the entire game, I wouldn't say "difficult", more luck-based. Rope bridge Xaurips - no idea what it is, ergo it didn't make an impression. Large lagufaeth - you mean the three broodmothers encounter? Sure, but isn't that a WM1 quest? Ice Dragon - only if you don't know what you are doing, but I'll give you that one. Llengrath - nope, I one-shot this encounter both times I played it. High Abbot - no idea, ergo no impression. Radiant - yes, that's tough.

 

[Grunker]

“There’s no difference after level 10”

*is presented with objective examples of the opposite*

“OK I’ll give you some of those but I can’t remember the others so they don’t count so nyah”

Also, all RPGs ever can be trivialized by abuse, which sounds like what you were doing if you one-shot Llenengrath. By that metric no RPG ever is hard :shrug:

 

[Blutwurstritter]

How does Path of the Damned improve combat ? I've finished PoE1/2 on normal when I played them for the first time and after all DLC's had been released on Hard/Veteran a second time. Everything just got "bullet-spongier", which is not the kind if difficulty increase that I like. Combat was just as dull as before, it simply took a bit longer. My estimate was that PotD would just increases the tedium by bloating numbers further. Am I missing something ? Divinity:OS had tactician mode that actually changed encounters, is PotD like that ?

 

[Grunker]

PotD increases the amount of creatures significantly. It won't make you enjoy the game if you don't already, it just makes a good game much better.

 

[Lacrymas]

“There’s no difference after level 10”

It really isn't. Sure, PotD will make a difference but at 10+ it's minimal

Don't get me wrong, play on PotD, but being able to defeat 95%+ of encounters while gently sleeping on the keyboard and the rest requiring some input is not my idea of a huge difference. You have to get rid of any priests, ciphers, druids, wizards, and paladins in your party in order to not accidentally cheese the game.

 

[Grunker]

It's too bad you don't play this game anymore or you could provide footage of you trivializing Magran's Faithful or Kaoto without abuse. I'd really like to see that

 

[Lacrymas]

The game trivializes itself with the ridiculously overpowered spells it gives you past lvl 10ish. You have to give up on half the classes in order to not have overpowered abilities that single-handedly destroy encounters. A party of a rogue, chanter, monk, barb, fighter, and ranger might have trouble with them.

 

[Grunker]

Which overpowered spells did you use to trivialize Kaoto?

Oh wait, that's right, you don't even remember one of WM's key boss fights, right? How unfortunate, since it effectively makes it impossible to discuss something concrete.

Again, literally every RPG ever made can be trivialized by abusing its most powerful tools. PoE is no different to any other game in the genre in this way. Playing it normally there's no way you auto-attack your way through the encounters I mentioned.

 

[Lacrymas]

No idea what you are referring to, true. In my Skaen Priest run, it's probably just having a Paladin and casting Defensive Mindweb with the Cipher. In my Bleak Walker run, I had a Priest, Wizard, and Druid, so I'm sure I thought it was another trash encounter.

 

[Grunker]

Priest is easily the most powerful class in PoE in terms of its unique ability to counter many of the game's hardest mechanics, that's absolutely true (which is why Priest is the only class I never bring - essentially priest is a 'no' button for a lot of the stuff PoE is designed to make you live through). But even with a priest, Kaoto is hard without abuse simply because of interruptions and CC.

 

[Grunker]

Just out of curiosity: which RPGs do you consider hard? I've played most and I can't think of many who does as good a job at difficulty as PoE. Got a feeling this is a usual case of "nothing is hard"-ism

 

[Lacrymas]

PoE itself is harder below lvl 10 on PotD, Deadfire with the 25% less xp mod too (below lvl 10 too). BG1's SCS. Maybe Gloomhaven on the higher difficulties, but I don't have enough experience with it yet to judge, this impression might be coming from the fact I only played it with another person, though.

Don't get me wrong, PoE is one of the harder RPGs out there, but that doesn't mean it doesn't trivialize 95%+ of its content with ridiculous abilities at lvl 10ish+. I am a very outspoken critic of high level abilities in D&D too as you well know, that's why I've banned them in my own setting and staggered the acquisition of spell circles.

 

[Grunker]

OK so one game with a difficulty mod and maybe one game of another genre. So a typical case of "nothing is hard"-ism.

The reason that perspective is so obviously useless is that if nothing is hard, the discussion doesn't really make any sense. Any discussion about difficulty must be relative to other games.

 

[Lacrymas]

I consider Gloomhaven an RPG, why wouldn't you? Either way, yeah, RPGs tend to be on the easier side due to developers not being able to control themselves and constantly introduce game-breaking abilities. I already admitted PoE itself is harder below lvl 10, it just when you start getting the higher level abilities, especially WM ones, it all goes out the window. It's not enough for 2 encounters out of 300 to move you to press buttons. If PoE past lvl 10 consisted of only the encounters you listed (I'm giving you a pass here and simply accepting they are harder wholesale), then sure, 10/10 difficulty, but it isn't like that, huh.

 

[Grunker]

It's not 2 out of 300. It's more like 50. I don't want to bother making a collection of them all because 1) debating with people who think nothing is hard is generally a waste of time since every argument will be met with universal dismissal and 2) you can't answer my arguments anyway since you "don't remember."

But PoE's difficulty is way different than Deadfire's in my experience. The first is a linear curve that is hardest at level 1 and easiest at level 20, with the sole exception of megabosses. Whereas PoE has the easiest AND the hardest encounters on its high levels.

 

[Lacrymas]

4% of encounters is quite a track record. I already admitted which encounters I found hard, so there is no universal dismissal, and I already said Defensive Mindweb is the culprit in one of the parties I had. In the other party, it's just a combination of the three "primary" casters that trivialize everything. For the Druid, it's Relentless and Avenging Storm with a sprinkling of Plague of Insects. For the Wizard, it's Kalakoth's Minor Blights (and later Llengrath's Blunt Wisdom), Gaze of the Adragan and just general shenanigans. We all know what Priests are capable of. The three of them combined just bulldoze everything. Considering a Priest can solo the entire game, yeah.

 

[Parabalus]

4% of encounters is quite a track record. I already admitted which encounters I found hard, so there is no universal dismissal, and I already said Defensive Mindweb is the culprit in one of the parties I had. In the other party, it's just a combination of the three "primary" casters that trivialize everything. For the Druid, it's Relentless and Avenging Storm with a sprinkling of Plague of Insects. For the Wizard, it's Kalakoth's Minor Blights (and later Llengrath's Blunt Wisdom), Gaze of the Adragan and just general shenanigans. We all know what Priests are capable of. The three of them combined just bulldoze everything. Considering a Priest can solo the entire game, yeah.

You get like one or two casts per dungeon of those spells, how do they trivialize everything?

 

[Grunker]

Again, there's no sense debating difficulty with someone who thinks that nothing is difficult. It's like debating wetness with someone who thinks everything is dry. It doesn't make any sense :shrug:

 

[Lacrymas]

You get like one or two casts per dungeon of those spells, how do they trivialize everything?

You don't need them in 96% of encounters, the martial classes obliterate those with per-encounter abilities (druid shapeshifting too). The majority of the other 4% get trivialized by them.

 

[Ulfhednar]

I haven't played this in 3 or 4 years, and getting pinballed by Kaoto and his monks definitely stands out in my memory. Almost finished with Azata on WotR and will probably put it down after that and won't pick it back up again till all the DLCs are out (if I can help myself). Might have to jump on the bandwagon and give PoE another look while I wait.

 

[pomenitul]

PotD remains fairly challenging throughout if you avoid minmaxing and don't hire any mercs. Makes for an optimal playthrough, really.

 

[AwesomeButton]

There is good difficulty and dumb difficulty in RPG combat. Examples of good difficulty: Battle Brothers, Underrail, Age of Decadence. Examples of bad difficulty: PoE/Deadfire, D:OS/2, Witcher 3.

A characteristic of dumb difficulty is that no matter how you set it, it's never fun. Either it's select all-right click, or it requires some kind of cheesing.

 

[Parabalus]

There is good difficulty and dumb difficulty in RPG combat. Examples of good difficulty: Battle Brothers, Underrail, Age of Decadence. Examples of bad difficulty: PoE/Deadfire, D:OS/2, Witcher 3.

A characteristic of dumb difficulty is that no matter how you set it, it's never fun. Either it's select all-right click, or it requires some kind of cheesing.

Underrail and AoD are all cheese.

PoE and Dumpsterfire are 0% cheese.