Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Grunker]

I'm curious about the financial success of Wrath of the Righteous. I wonder what the general audience finds attractive or not in these RPGs "in the old style". It could very easily be theorized why PoE1 failed to create fans of this franchise, but it's always going to be a guesstimation at best. Can anyone even here say they are fans of PoE? Like pomenitul said, this thread keeps delivering after almost 7 years, but I personally find it more intellectually engaging and satisfying to talk about its admittedly interesting failings than the game as-is.

The 3 most rabid fans I can think of are Infinitron (still here), Shevek (disappeared), and PrimeJunta (self-ejected for reasons of insanity). I've gotten the impression that Grunker is a fan, but with some digging it seems that maybe that's only after years of patches and WM.

I love PoE in its current state so I certainly consider myself a fan. I was around 6/10 on the initial release. I think the second game was 1 step forward 2 steps back, but I still like it. Enough to now have 3 complete playthroughs of each game.

I also really like Kingmaker, though it's a similar deal with that game: I was meh on release but thought the turn-based mode elevated the game a lot (and that's even though I'm a big fan of RTwP - check the link below for why I don't think RTwP works that well for PoE and Kingmaker). I think I'd like it as much as PoE if it had better difficulty/encounters. As is it doesn't live up to its potential once you get to level 10+, whereas in PoE I'm consistently challenged all the way through, which is probably the most important thing about RPGs for me, increasingly so the older I get. Incidentally this is also the main reason I like Deadfire less than final state PoE, it's simply too easy (except for the megabosses which range from amazing to very poorly designed grindfests).

I don't think I qualify as a "rabid" fan though, since I'm very critical about many things in PoE (especially the writing). I even made this thread fairly recently where I admit that Sensuki, whose criticism of PoE I opposed for a long time, was right about his core objection about PoE: https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/sensuki-was-right.136316

 

[FreeKaner]

Problem with Kingmaker's turn-based mod is the insane amount of trash combat it has. Wrathfinder is a bit better but it is also way too much. Their area designer needs to understand not every square meter of a map needs combat. I wish they added an option to remove some of the trash combat to combine with turn-based combat. No I don't want to fight same 3 bandits 5 times in a row in a single map in turn-based mode.

I also disagree completely with "fast-paced RTWP", I think the way area of effect and zone of control works in deadfire in particular (where characters with shields & characters that specialize in it have it) works very well. Otherwise it becomes a degenerate kitefest.

 

[Parabalus]

Kingmaker also has extreme amounts of mobs even by RTwP standards, which is why buff + A-move strategies are so popular.

 

[Grunker]

Kingmaker also has extreme amounts of mobs even by RTwP standards, which is why buff + A-move strategies are so popular.

Aren't you a PoE-fan as well btw?

 

[Haplo]

NWN was Lacrymas's first RPG, guys. Literally just nostalgia talking.

As far as I remember, it really is my first RPG. However, I still play it from time to time and still enjoy the graphics immensely.

Yeah, that's what nostalgia does. I still enjoy immensely the graphics of LEGO Racers and Re-Volt.

Can't say I love the NWN graphic. It has aged for sure. But I also don't mind it. Think it was highly functional. Loved the clean, light GUI in NWN.
It was not my first crpg, but it was a game I've loved. Spent years on NWN PW servers and a fair bit of time playing various modules.

I vastly preferred the GUI and animations in NWN to NWN2. And even the graphics in general, I guess. NWN2 was ugly, brown and depressing.

 

[Grunker]

Other Codex PoE-fans I think:

Rivmusique
Sizzle
IHaveHugeNick
Maybe AwesomeButton?

Also Haplo you need to be online on Steam more. I still haven't started my Elminage playthrough due to party creation paralysis and I keep looking for you when I'm making one :'(

 

[Haplo]

The other option is to try a different class -- I could see Rangers doing very well with, say, an arquebus and Swift Aim/Swift and Steady. I'm not interested in trying a Chanter or Cipher, whose gun usage would be incidental to their main class abilities.

Any thoughts on what I should try?

Rangers are pretty great. But I'd not discard the other 2 classes you mentioned.
Chanter chants passively and has plenty of time to shoot between his rare-ish invocations. Plus has awesome buffs for gunslingers: Sure Handed Ila & Mith Fyr.
Cipher needs to harvest Focus with weapon attacks to use his powers. So has to be pretty good with some weapons too. Guns fit the bill well.

 

[dacencora]

The other option is to try a different class -- I could see Rangers doing very well with, say, an arquebus and Swift Aim/Swift and Steady. I'm not interested in trying a Chanter or Cipher, whose gun usage would be incidental to their main class abilities.

Any thoughts on what I should try?

Rangers are pretty great. But I'd not discard the other 2 classes you mentioned.
Chanter chants passively and has plenty of time to shoot between his rare-ish invocations. Plus has awesome buffs for gunslingers: Sure Handed Ila & Mith Fyr.
Cipher needs to harvest Focus with weapon attacks to use his powers. So has to be pretty good with some weapons too. Guns fit the bill well.

My Cipher used guns until I found the Stormcaller bow, then that was the only thing I used.

 

[NJClaw]

Other Codex PoE-fans I think:

Rivmusique
Sizzle
IHaveHugeNick
Maybe AwesomeButton?

I consider myself somewhat of a PoE fan. I really (REALLY) hated it at first and couldn't complete a playthrough for more than a year, then something clicked a now I play it once every couple of years, and I always enjoy my time with it. I actually like the setting, especially the ideas around the cults of the gods, so I get to also have fun outside of combat. One thing that would make me enjoy the game even more would be to have more companion's interactions and interjections. That's what I enjoy the most about these games and I think PoE needs a lot more of those, especially because I like almost every companion.

Having followed this thread for a while, I'd say that the two of the most active fans of this have to be pomenitul and dacencora.

My Cipher used guns until I found the Stormcaller bow, then that was the only thing I used.

I know everyone online swears for gun-ciphers, but that always feels underwhelming to me. That first strike gives a lot of focus, but in my experience a bow surpasses that during the reload time. Usually, my weapon progression with a Cipher looks something like Lead Splitter -> Stormcaller -> The Rain of Godagh Field, which, between its innated speed bonus and the Durgan steel one, generates focus so fast you can basically spam your powers.

 

[Roguey]

Lmao, is Durance autobiographical?

All that talk about whores and shit.

For all his mgtow bravado, he ends up being the ultimate simp, so yes.

 

[FreeKaner]

 

[Haplo]

My Cipher used guns until I found the Stormcaller bow, then that was the only thing I used.

I know everyone online swears for gun-ciphers, but that always feels underwhelming to me. That first strike gives a lot of focus, but in my experience a bow surpasses that during the reload time. Usually, my weapon progression with a Cipher looks something like Lead Splitter -> Stormcaller -> The Rain of Godagh Field, which, between its innated speed bonus and the Durgan steel one, generates focus so fast you can basically spam your powers.

I really dislike Recovery on casters. Particularly on Priests, but that also goes for others. Guns are great: fire and immediately follow up with cast.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

I'm not really a fan of the first game, I found it really unsuited for subsequent playthroughs, once you do 2 runs you've basically seen everything. Deadfire though I definitely enjoy replaying every once in a while. It's open structure is very friendly to hardcore metgaming, ie by investing in the right skills and knowing where to go, you can get huge amount of endgame gear straight after tutorial island with no combat. Add all the experimenting with different itemization and mutlclasses and no two runs are the same.

 

[dacencora]

I know everyone online swears for gun-ciphers, but that always feels underwhelming to me. That first strike gives a lot of focus, but in my experience a bow surpasses that during the reload time. Usually, my weapon progression with a Cipher looks something like Lead Splitter -> Stormcaller -> The Rain of Godagh Field, which, between its innated speed bonus and the Durgan steel one, generates focus so fast you can basically spam your powers.

Huh never knew it was a popular strategy, just based off the stats I used, guns gave a good ratio of recovery, but when I found Stormcaller, it was so significantly better that I never even tried to find a replacement lol. I’m sure a bow makes more sense than a gun, but I just went with the gun I guess. Plus the sound effect on the flintlock guns sounds so cool, how could you not?

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

I know everyone online swears for gun-ciphers, but that always feels underwhelming to me. That first strike gives a lot of focus, but in my experience a bow surpasses that during the reload time. Usually, my weapon progression with a Cipher looks something like Lead Splitter -> Stormcaller -> The Rain of Godagh Field, which, between its innated speed bonus and the Durgan steel one, generates focus so fast you can basically spam your powers.

Huh never knew it was a popular strategy, just based off the stats I used, guns gave a good ratio of recovery, but when I found Stormcaller, it was so significantly better that I never even tried to find a replacement lol. I’m sure a bow makes more sense than a gun, but I just went with the gun I guess. Plus the sound effect on the flintlock guns sounds so cool, how could you not?

The setup is this: Paralyze something, shoot it once with a poisoned blunderbuss, cast spells.

It's very uncommon to need more focus after filling up like that. Longer boss battles often have mooks which can then be used in the above manner like a mana potion. The blunderbuss gives you lots of dice to critical, which is easy to do on anything paralyzed. The poison ability/talent (I can't remember it's name, had x uses a day) applies on each of those dice which stacks quite a bit of damage.

 

[dacencora]

I know everyone online swears for gun-ciphers, but that always feels underwhelming to me. That first strike gives a lot of focus, but in my experience a bow surpasses that during the reload time. Usually, my weapon progression with a Cipher looks something like Lead Splitter -> Stormcaller -> The Rain of Godagh Field, which, between its innated speed bonus and the Durgan steel one, generates focus so fast you can basically spam your powers.

Huh never knew it was a popular strategy, just based off the stats I used, guns gave a good ratio of recovery, but when I found Stormcaller, it was so significantly better that I never even tried to find a replacement lol. I’m sure a bow makes more sense than a gun, but I just went with the gun I guess. Plus the sound effect on the flintlock guns sounds so cool, how could you not?

The setup is this: Paralyze something, shoot it once with a poisoned blunderbuss, cast spells.

It's very uncommon to need more focus after filling up like that. Longer boss battles often have mooks which can then be used in the above manner like a mana potion. The blunderbuss gives you lots of dice to critical, which is easy to do on anything paralyzed. The poison ability/talent (I can't remember it's name, had x uses a day) applies on each of those dice which stacks quite a bit of damage.

Interesting, I will definitely have to try that on a replay.

 

[Decado]

Other Codex PoE-fans I think:

Rivmusique
Sizzle
IHaveHugeNick
Maybe AwesomeButton?

Also Haplo you need to be online on Steam more. I still haven't started my Elminage playthrough due to party creation paralysis and I keep looking for you when I'm making one :'(

I'm a fan. I wrote arguably the most positive review of the game and was mobbed by angry grognards because I wasn't "specific enough" which means I didn't write an encyclopedia. But I stuck to my guns and stand by my review; if anything, I've grown more fond of the game in the intervening years.

 

[Mr. Magniloquent]

Spoiler

I know everyone online swears for gun-ciphers, but that always feels underwhelming to me. That first strike gives a lot of focus, but in my experience a bow surpasses that during the reload time. Usually, my weapon progression with a Cipher looks something like Lead Splitter -> Stormcaller -> The Rain of Godagh Field, which, between its innated speed bonus and the Durgan steel one, generates focus so fast you can basically spam your powers.

Huh never knew it was a popular strategy, just based off the stats I used, guns gave a good ratio of recovery, but when I found Stormcaller, it was so significantly better that I never even tried to find a replacement lol. I’m sure a bow makes more sense than a gun, but I just went with the gun I guess. Plus the sound effect on the flintlock guns sounds so cool, how could you not?

The setup is this: Paralyze something, shoot it once with a poisoned blunderbuss, cast spells.

It's very uncommon to need more focus after filling up like that. Longer boss battles often have mooks which can then be used in the above manner like a mana potion. The blunderbuss gives you lots of dice to critical, which is easy to do on anything paralyzed. The poison ability/talent (I can't remember it's name, had x uses a day) applies on each of those dice which stacks quite a bit of damage.

Interesting, I will definitely have to try that on a replay.

I looked it up. The talent was Envenomed Strike. It may have changed since the version I played. It looks like it only does DoT. I remember it doing some base damage + DoT. Either way, it applies to every projectile of the blunderbuss individually, so it's basically a death sentence for anything you hit. That combo executes quickly, so there is really no rev-up time. Even if your foe is only paralyzed for like a second, you can still pull it off.

 

[FreeKaner]

Wizard's "form of helpless creature" ability also resets DR to 3, if you have a blunderbuss character using the two means you can usually oneshot the pig with it.

 

[Decado]

Other Codex PoE-fans I think:

Rivmusique
Sizzle
IHaveHugeNick
Maybe AwesomeButton?

Also Haplo you need to be online on Steam more. I still haven't started my Elminage playthrough due to party creation paralysis and I keep looking for you when I'm making one :'(

I'm a fan. I wrote arguably the most positive review of the game and was mobbed by angry grognards because I wasn't "specific enough" which means I didn't write an encyclopedia. But I stuck to my guns and stand by my review; if anything, I've grown more fond of the game in the intervening years.

Man I just went back and read that thread and holy shit. People were steamed at my review.

 

[Sunri]

So many PoE fans coming out of the closet, what a brave, stunning individuals!

 

[dacencora]

So many PoE fans coming out of the closet, what brave stunning individuals!

 

[AwesomeButton]

I wouldn't say I'm a fan. I was hugely disappointed because I expected a successor to the IE games would have a combat that approximates the IE games' combat, and PoE instead tries to be too smart for its own good, typical Sawyer.

After these years, I'd say it's an underwhelming result of overreaching to do too much with the resources available, and has Sawyer's hubris of "grognards think they know what they want, but really don't" all over it. In the words of our savior Todd: "Who's laughing now?"

Neither the combat, nor the story are above garage indie attempts at a first game. In fact we have garage indies with better combat and story. The setting is interesting but the game's plot doesn't concentrate on the interesting, and even if it did, it doesn't have the storytellers to tell an interesting story in this setting. Sawyer could (thanks to his background in DMing and education in history), but he was busy with project management and systems design.

Gilded Vale/Raedric's Hold, and the Dyrford Village and vicinity. That's all that's good in PoE. Enough to blue-ball you into wanting an IE-like experience, but never offering it. The redeeming thing about it is the White March expansion, parts I and II. I've written my own review of them somewhere in this subforum, but it was years ago.

You can try to excuse the game and the dev leads with the fact that their efforts were mainly directed at ticking off the checkmarks of the promises they made in the Kickstarter. And it shows very well in the game. But that's more a condemnation than an excuse in my book, because it's evident where the outside influence, one on which the budget was hinging, interfered with their vision. After this interference you can't convince me that this is the game they really wanted to make as a spiritual successor to the IE games.

With all that said, I've still spent a couple of hundred hours in PoE, ironically, trying to find fun in it and failing, never managing to feel immersed in the world or hooked by the character building or combat. So, apparently it's not an unplayable or unenjoyable game. It's still a huge letdown when measured against BG or IWD. Lacks "soul" and passion, you can't lose yourself in it and forget what time it is, like I found I still can with good RPGs.

I also found Deadfire much more fun, even with the big mistakes committed in its design.

 

[Ninjerk]

Other Codex PoE-fans I think:

Rivmusique
Sizzle
IHaveHugeNick
Maybe AwesomeButton?

Also Haplo you need to be online on Steam more. I still haven't started my Elminage playthrough due to party creation paralysis and I keep looking for you when I'm making one :'(

I'm a fan. I wrote arguably the most positive review of the game and was mobbed by angry grognards because I wasn't "specific enough" which means I didn't write an encyclopedia. But I stuck to my guns and stand by my review; if anything, I've grown more fond of the game in the intervening years.

Man I just went back and read that thread and holy shit. People were steamed at my review.

I had no memory of you writing a review. Skimming over it and the responses, I can see why.

 

[Grunker]

With Deadfire, I always end building intentionally very suboptimal builds to get enjoyment out of the main game, but then Megabosses feel completely undoable.