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Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

Lyric Suite

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well I still remember when bioware used that logic to cut almost everything from dragon age 2. so i think this should be decided on a per case basis
The error is with the designer. Someone has to draw that line. Bioware drew it in a way which turned their games into non-RPG interactive movies. That was their call. But in both cases as we see, the designer wasn't operating with freedom in drawing the line.

I'm not far into the game but i will say one thing.

I'm actually enjoying this a whole lot more than i ever enjoyed any of Bioware's pseudo-cinematic crap.

Maybe i'm just starved for this kind of games since i haven't played any for almost a decade if we exclude replaying the older classics, but... i'm actually sort of enjoying that there's tons of text, quests with mutiple resolutions, a world that's there to explore whether one actually likes the "lore" or not etc.

For all it's warts, it really does play like an old school RPG instead of the dumped down shit Bioware came with. Just the fact all the dialog lines i can chose are actually written out instead of being generic responses makes it light years ahead of anything that uses that fucking stupid dialogue wheel.
 

AwesomeButton

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well I still remember when bioware used that logic to cut almost everything from dragon age 2. so i think this should be decided on a per case basis
The error is with the designer. Someone has to draw that line. Bioware drew it in a way which turned their games into non-RPG interactive movies. That was their call. But in both cases as we see, the designer wasn't operating with freedom in drawing the line.

I'm not far into the game but i will say one thing.

I'm actually enjoying this a whole lot more than i ever enjoyed any of Bioware's pseudo-cinematic crap.

Maybe i'm just starved for this kind of games since i haven't played any for almost a decade if we exclude replaying the older classics, but... i'm actually sort of enjoying that there's tons of text, quests with mutiple resolutions, a world that's there to explore whether one actually likes the "lore" or not etc.

For all it's warts, it really does play like an old school RPG instead of the dumped down shit Bioware came with. Just the fact all the dialog lines i can chose are actually written out instead of being generic responses makes it light years ahead of anything that uses that fucking stupid dialogue wheel.
I liked this too, my problem was the lack of ability to lose myself in the game the way I could in BG/BG2. This feeling was more present when I was wandering around in Deadfire, until I found out that most of the side content and bounty targets consists of one map just large enough to contain the combat encounter. A consequence of using Unity and having to load the whole game area at once. Also a consequence of budget limitations I guess.

For more elaborate dungeons and exploration you nearly always had to stick to the main quest content in PoE/Deadfire. And this wasn't the case in BG and especially BG2. That's one reason the DLCs are good - they are side-content, but crafted on the scale and with the care that we would normally expect from BG2. If BG2 was made today, the Sphere, de'Arnise Keep, the Windspear Hills, Tradesmeet, would have been DLCs

I guess it's also much easier to plan your budget and work for a smaller-sized portion of the game like the DLC than for the base game where you also have technical, engine- and tools-related questions to answer, at least when developing the first title in the series.
 
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IHaveHugeNick

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Vidya game: starts with pre-intro intro, followed by pre-into, then the intro, then 3 hour tutorial island.

Me, the intelectual: ACTHUALLY the reason for failure is all about <insert irrelevant bullshit> difference between muh medieval setting and muh medieval setting but you're on the ship.
 

Lacrymas

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When I played PoE at release, I also tentatively enjoyed it for some reason. It might've been excitement about a new "isometric" RPG from Obsidian, or maybe I was waiting for the old Obsidian writers to shatter all my illusions about fantasy RPGs like Chris did with Star Wars, or maybe a lot of things, but I enjoyed it. When it was all over, however, and I turned back to think about the whole experience it dawned on me that almost nothing made any kind of impression and I was hyping myself up during it. Kinda like my first girlfriend. Lyric Suite, did you get past Mearwald yet?
 

dacencora

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Said it before, but I enjoyed it without any tentativeness. I also enjoyed Tyranny, so YMMV. I didn't much care for Deadfire, however. I do wanna give it another shot, but when I played it I wasn't a big fan.
 

NJClaw

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
When it was all over, however, and I turned back to think about the whole experience it dawned on me that almost nothing made any kind of impression and I was hyping myself up during it. Kinda like my first girlfriend.
Spot-on: just like it happened with women, in the end you realized you don't like RPGs, but roguelikes!
 

Lacrymas

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Spot-on: just like it happened with women, in the end you realized you don't like RPGs, but roguelikes!
I do like roguelikes more than RPGs, true ;d As for the women thing, paradoxically I started enjoying women more after I had a boyfriend. At one point, I was wondering whether I'm just gay and I'm lying to myself, but after that experience I realized sexual orientation is a scam.
 

Lacrymas

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So you prefer classless systems of sexuality.
You are very correct ;d LGBT - the D&D/PoE system of sexuality; MOGAI - the reprobate's idea of sexuality, i.e. Pathfinder; Sexual orientation is (probably capitalistic) propaganda - classless and the only correct choice in this context.
 

NJClaw

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Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture
The key factor deciding if you're gay or straight is whether he first guy you blow washed his penis that day.
Ah, the marvels of Pillars of Eternity! One moment you're discussing paladin orders, what makes a god, and the meanings of omnipotence, then in the the blink of an eye you discover that a washed penis is a vector of transmission of homosexuality.
 

AwesomeButton

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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
I said, maybe it was in 2018, that most people men claiming to be "bisexual" are just gay and haven't come to terms with the fact yet.
 
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Decado

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I fired this game up after reading through the thread a few weeks ago. I was curious about the actual differences between rogues and fighters, beyond what I could just remember. One thing I always wanted to try was a gun-using offensive character, and the high-damage stacking abilities of the rogue seemed like a good idea here.

So there are skills that allow me to utilize multiple firearms in a smart way, most importantly Arms Bearer and Quick Switch. The idea behind this multiple gun-toting terror was to have 3-4 pistols all equipped. Fire one, switch, fire another, switch, etc. Combined with a high dex, Quick switch would actually allow me to use a second, third, fourth gun faster than waiting for the first one to reload. The downside, of course, is that after gun #4 I have to reload everything. So the temptation is to stack three guns, and keep a melee weapon in slot 4, but the problem here is the problem of rogues in general -- they are absolutely shit at staying alive. If you get into melee range, you will quickly get buttfucked into oblivion. The way to avoid this is to invest in the more defensive-minded rogue talents, but of course the rogue doesn't have defensive-minded abilities so much as engagement-breaking abilities. And these are nice, but they don't solve the fundamental problem of allowing you stay in the fight while continuing to dish out melee. It is for this reason I originally said (and still believe) that if you want to roll a dual wielding melee specialist, use a fighter. They are better in every regard, except for raw damage output. But I believe they make up for this shortcoming by being able to stay in the fight and deliver more consistent damage over time.

So then I respecced, around level 7-8. Instead of 4 guns, I'd stick with one and go for talents that increased reload speed. Integral to this build was a reliance on things like Backstab, sneak attack modifiers, etc. The problem with Backstab, though, is that you need to be within 2 meters for it to work. This leaves you with two options, both heavily reliant on stealth (which has its own issues, chiefly that I have to take points from Mechanics, which I like pumping on a rogue).

One, you can use a guy like Eder to lure enemies towards you and, timing it just right, shoot them when they get into your 2m range. This is always a bit of a crapshoot because unlike melee, ranged weapons will not move the character in range to fire, thereby wasting your Backstab modifier if you accidentally attack an enemy without being in range first. And if you're dealing with groups, a mob hurtling towards Eder can include enemies who will bump into you (!) thereby pushing you out of stealth, also wasting your Backstab modifier. Finally, allowing Eder to pull enemies, but waiting for them to get into Backstab range, means you will lose the Sneak Attack bonus gained by attacking within the first 2 seconds of combat. Because it usually takes longer than two seconds for enemies to get within your range.

The second option is a more lone-wolf approach -- stealth, approach target, get off your pistol shot and take advantage of the huge Backstab and Sneak Attack modifiers. And this is no joke. Armed with Forgiveness, I was able to do a single attack damage of 128.5 at level 7. This is pretty fucking good! The downside, of course, is that you're basically helpless until your Coordinated Positioning or Escape talents can be used. And owing to the slow speed of guns in general, you're left standing there in a midst of enemies for a second or two, which is more than enough to kill you outright. Finally, if you do make it out alive your huge damage burst has been reduced to a trickle because at this stage of the game (level 7-8) you've had to put your precious talent points into those things that give you a big bang up front -- this means no Gunner, and no defensive talents like Graceful Retreat.

So it could be that I need to wait this out longer, gain some more levels, etc. I'm not sure. The first version of my rogue seemed to do more consistent damage and since I wasn't worried about Backstabs, I never died because I was never in melee range. But after my 3rd or 4th pistol shot, I was in for a lot of down time. The second version was much more of a glass cannon, once-and-you're-done type job. But the frantic race to not get murdered after my surprise attack was not a fun aspect to manage, and I died way more often.

The other option is to try a different class -- I could see Rangers doing very well with, say, an arquebus and Swift Aim/Swift and Steady. I'm not interested in trying a Chanter or Cipher, whose gun usage would be incidental to their main class abilities.

Any thoughts on what I should try?
 
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AwesomeButton

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It is for this reason I originally said (and still believe) that if you want to roll a dual wielding melee specialist, use a fighter. They are better in every regard, except for raw damage output. But I believe they make up for this shortcoming by being able to stay in the fight and deliver more consistent damage over time.
You also have to think about the party's damage output as a whole and that by diverting damage and engaging enemies the fighter helps others deal damage.
 

Decado

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It is for this reason I originally said (and still believe) that if you want to roll a dual wielding melee specialist, use a fighter. They are better in every regard, except for raw damage output. But I believe they make up for this shortcoming by being able to stay in the fight and deliver more consistent damage over time.
You also have to think about the party's damage output as a whole and that by diverting damage and engaging enemies the fighter helps others deal damage.

Yes agreed. This is a crucial aspect to fighters in PoE, in general I'd say.
 

mediocrepoet

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Not sure about a dedicated gun user, but re: rogues, I've played glass cannon rogues on POTD and their "shitness" is overstated unless you're just terrible at using them or like run them up to the front of an enemy or something.

Disabling moves, moving them into the back of an enemy that's engaged by Eder (or whoever) makes them melt anything they get near. I liked dual wielding, if min-maxing, I push dexterity for action speed, perception for accuracy, and might for damage. For talents, I was taking the dual wield specialization talents and the rogue stuff for adding sneak attack damage and I think there were some armour piercing abilities in there too. I also liked using city orlans for the hit to crit conversion. Add some stilettos or maces for fast hitting and armour piercing and you're laughing.

Basically, I just speced primarily for accuracy, speed, and armour piercing.
 

Nikanuur

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I fired this game up after reading through the thread a few weeks ago...
Years ago I totally saw somebody writing a manual exactly to what you've described. It almost felt like you are the person right now :3 Ok, let me search a bit. Mabye I'll dig it up.
 
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Nikanuur

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....So there are skills that allow me to utilize multiple firearms in a smart way, most importantly Arms Bearer and Quick Switch...
Any thoughts on what I should try?


Sorry, can't seem to find it. The closest one I got to was this "beta showing" from the PoE II, though I think the mechanics didn't really change much. It still may hold build advising value.

 

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