Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

[Roguey]

Well BG1 is 2ED where Barbarians do in fact exist as a class. Ranger has had a particular "barbarian-like" kit since forever (called Giant-killer in some editions) known for using two-handed weapons...

As a splatbook, not part of the core rules.

 

[luj1]

I have to check but why does it matter? If Minsc were a Barbarian they would have made him one. That is just like your personal fanfic man.

 

[ferratilis]

What will happen first, will he finally convert to Islam or will he see the one and only light of Joshua Sawyer? Stay tuned to find out.

 

[gurugeorge]

I'm not saying it wouldn't be interesting to have a system where every stat can help a class, but the way it's implemented here makes no logical sense.

Every stat should have some impact (positive or negative) on everything, pretty much. The only reason it doesn't is because of the constraints of the tabletop inheritance (the thing has to be manageable for a bunch of smart but drunk friends having fun, so to speak), but there's no excuse not to have fuller simulationist complexity in a videogame. I respect the Pillows systems for at least trying to do that, but as always, finding the right balance between simulationist integrity (which demands complexity) and casual fun (which demands simplification and abstraction) is difficult. Sometimes the latter requires gerrymandering together things that don't really go together in the former sense.

At one time it occurred to me that a good balance might be to have "dual stats" where every stat has a "major" and "minor" impact. For example, high INT would obviously play majorly into Wizardry, as usual, but it should also have a minor impact on something like critical chance, or maybe critical damage (you know the weak spots). Really there should be like 4 or 5 layers to every stat, but two might give a lot more simulationist integrity while still being manageable for the poor player's brain in a fun context.

 

[Roguey]

I have to check but why does it matter? If Minsc were a Barbarian they would have made him one. That is just like your personal fanfic man.

Implementing splatbooks was out of scope so they made him the closest thing. Minsc was one of those barbarians with a witch from Rashemen which is part of the lore.

 

[luj1]

so they made him the closest thing

Barbarian exists as a class in 2ED...

 

[Roguey]

so they made him the closest thing

Barbarian exists as a class in 2ED...

We are having a circular discussion.

As a splatbook, not part of the core rules

Implementing splatbooks was out of scope

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Einstein Barbarians and Arnold Wizards are just as illogical as Dex making you somehow dodge bullets or Con somehow increasing your health bar enough to survive being impaled with a spear multiple times per turn.

 

[luj1]

Einstein Barbarians and Arnold Wizards are just as illogical

Yes but post-modern hipsters such as Soyer love to deconstruct and challenge what is traditional and normal, that is literally what these people live for. Ironically it is the main reason why Pillars bombed as a franchise.

 

[Nikanuur]

Every stat should have some impact (positive or negative) on everything, pretty much. The only reason it doesn't is because of the constraints of the tabletop inheritance (the thing has to be manageable for a bunch of smart but drunk friends having fun, so to speak), but there's no excuse not to have fuller simulationist complexity in a videogame. I respect the Pillows systems for at least trying to do that, but as always, finding the right balance between simulationist integrity (which demands complexity) and casual fun (which demands simplification and abstraction) is difficult. Sometimes the latter requires gerrymandering together things that don't really go together in the former sense.

At one time it occurred to me that a good balance might be to have "dual stats" where every stat has a "major" and "minor" impact. For example, high INT would obviously play majorly into Wizardry, as usual, but it should also have a minor impact on something like critical chance, or maybe critical damage (you know the weak spots). Really there should be like 4 or 5 layers to every stat, but two might give a lot more simulationist integrity while still being manageable for the poor player's brain in a fun context.

I like more streamlined systems, too. Barbarian / Fighter = let's max Strength and Constitution, and be done with it. Or, for a change, a Dex Barbarian–if it serves some crit + action speed experiments.
Back there, I was just defending the argument of Intelligence being in synergy with Barbarians in part because I hate it when people trash-talk the whole for one or two parts. When an otherwise intelligent, but foul-spoken and spiteful prick does that, even more so. Too bad I'm at Codex, sometimes being guilty of something similar

Anyway, well said, you! PoE does like some not-so-well translating ideas or even outright gerrymandering Might for Wizards for one, eh.
Btw, nice word there, thanks. Haven't heard it before.

 

[Major_Blackhart]

So Soyer couldn't even stick to the lore for the rules he created.

 

[mediocrepoet]

Except that in the DnD Conan module, his class in not Barbarian at all you noob...

Barbarians didn't exist as a class in Gygax's D&D, this is why Minsc is a ranger.

It did, it started in Unearthed Arcana in 1E AD&D. Unearthed Arcana was written by... Gary Gygax.

2E AD&D didn't include Barbarians until later and wasn't technically "Gygax's D&D".

Zed Duke of Banville

 

[mediocrepoet]

Barbarians in PoE aren't your usual barbarians.

Than they aren't barbarians at all. The concept has been undermined until it loses all meaning.

What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.

Get over it and just pick something ffs.

 

[Lacrymas]

If your autism can't handle the more ...exotic concepts of certain classes, pick something that is straightforward. Basically only Wizard and Barbarian have unorthodox interactions with the stats.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

If your autism can't handle the more ...exotic concepts of certain classes, pick something that is straightforward. Basically only Wizard and Barbarian have unorthodox interactions with the stats.

He knows, that's why he picked Barb in a first place.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

The entire situation arose only because Sawyer for no good reason decided to slavishly copy classes from DnD 3E instead of coming up with his own classes. It's not hard to refluff it to make it work. If you want a soldier with melee AOE just call him Landsknecht and explain that hitting multiple opponents all at once is a complicated technique and only intelligent fighters can utilize. Yeah it's pretty dumb but not nearly as dumb as having to be smart in order to be angry for longer. Not to mention, if he wanted his stats to work differently perhaps he shouldn't have copied it from DnD either.

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah, plus the two classes that are original designs, ended up being the most interesting of the whole bunch and in Deadfire they typically make some the best multi-classaing options as well.

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Yeah, plus the two classes that are original designs, ended up being the most interesting of the whole bunch and in Deadfire they typically make some the best multi-classaing options as well.

I get it that it's a stretch to call Cipher a Psion ripoff, but what's the second original class?

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

I just remember that some critical dialogue checks required high resolve.

 

[Roguey]

It did, it started in Unearthed Arcana in 1E AD&D. Unearthed Arcana was written by... Gary Gygax.

That splatbook was published in 1985, Gygax published Conan's character sheet in 1980. Barbarians as a class flat out didn't exist. And when they made 2nd edition, they didn't bother including those rules and didn't update it themselves until 1995.

 

[luj1]

Yeah it's pretty dumb but not nearly as dumb as having to be smart in order to be angry for longer

I lol'd

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Yeah it's pretty dumb but not nearly as dumb as having to be smart in order to be angry for longer

I lol'd

The Anger Management classes were a success: the subject is now able to rage for longer!

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

Yeah, plus the two classes that are original designs, ended up being the most interesting of the whole bunch and in Deadfire they typically make some the best multi-classaing options as well.

I get it that it's a stretch to call Cipher a Psion ripoff, but what's the second original class?

Chanter.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

Isn't chanter basically a bard tho

 

[Gangrelrumbler]

Yeah, plus the two classes that are original designs, ended up being the most interesting of the whole bunch and in Deadfire they typically make some the best multi-classaing options as well.

I get it that it's a stretch to call Cipher a Psion ripoff, but what's the second original class?

Chanter.

Yeah, what Cat Headed Eagle said, Chanters are bards.