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Eternity Pillars of Eternity + The White March Expansion Thread

AwesomeButton

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I'll beat the game with 6 fighters.
BTW this isn't even going to be a problem, I'd wager. Talking about PotD of course. Unfortunately, this says less about balance than it does about the game's level of challenge. On second thought, I don't know, maybe it will be difficult. Just my experience is that with any party larger than 2, it's very difficult to get in trouble, outside of the expansion areas.
 
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Thank God the endgame is getting a scale up. Honestly everything after Act 1 was a complete cakewalk when I played on hard at launch. Itemization and the game's extreme ease were the issues I was most hoping would get addressed.

Still a little skeptical that Feargus will let Josh put in genuinely difficult encounters though.
 

Roguey

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Josh can't win.

"MAKE FIGHTERS A LOW MAINTENANCE AUTO-ATTACK CLASS"

"Okay."

"UGH FIGHTERS ARE BORING"

False, it makes your chars weaker and make you need to rest. You are annoyed because you want an easier game.

It's pointless busywork. As I understand it, even with the gamey restrictions on hard, you're never hurting for camp supplies.

The fatigue thing also works against the story. Obsidian deliberately chose to create a story where the text says your character suffers from lack of sleep at night, and decided this didn't need to be reflected with the mechanics. If fatigue is to exist, I think I would have preferred a reworking of goldrot chew so that it just removes a flat value of fatigue without the temporary time limit, and this is the only way the PC can remove fatigue.
 

Fairfax

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Fighters were never exciting in the first place, but at least they were very effective. The Paladin was more active in combat and a worse tank, but it had support abilities and buffs. Monks weren't as sturdy, but they had pretty strong disables, etc. Now Paladins, Barbarians, Chanters, Monks and even Rangers can be better tanks and add more to the party than a Fighter.
Everything in the patch notes besides the +5 to deflection was focused on the Fighter's DD abilities. Sawyer is aware of the problem, but he's clearly not trying to fix it, because it'd require a complete overhaul to the class, so now he's just buffing the Fighter's lackluster attacks. At some point the 12 people still playing the game in SA/Obsidian forums will complain that the DD Fighter is OP and he'll nerf it all over again.
 

prodigydancer

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The current Fighter is just boring and weak, worse than any other tank, and worse than every DD as well.
Worse than paladin at tanking, yes. And it was also the case in the IE games. As for DD... current meta favors +speed because you can finally stack enough of it to make a difference. A fighter with high attack speed and +accuracy/+damage talents won't fall too far behind a melee rogue in terms of pure DPS and actual damage done will probably end up even closer because Fighter is more durable.

Now I'm not saying that Fighter is great or anything. I'm saying that the patch changes make perfect sense - they give you higher natural Def, the ability to wear heavier armor without crippling your focus on +speed, more accuracy when you need it and damage scaling on talented attacks. Maybe it's not enough to make Fighter shine but it's a step in the right direction.

Paladins, Barbarians, Chanters, Monks and even Rangers can be better tanks
And that's why we so desperately need Fighter to be good at tanking...

Seriously though, you're just making this stuff up. Chanters and Rangers can be decent tanks but certainly not better than Fighters. It's pure tanking that has become less viable not the Fighter's ability to perform it. You don't want to build zero DPS invulnerable damage sponges in TWM - it just doesn't pay off anymore. Paladin can get away with having low DPS only because Paladin has OP auras and is ridiculously OP when it comes to healing.
 
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What's wrong with Feargus? Popamoler?

What Fairfax said. I just assumed that, since Josh was Project Lead, there must have been a mandate from above him. I think the only people besides Fergie above him were MCA (possible I suppose), Darren Monahan (seems unlikely) and Chris Jones (again seems unlikely). I just assumed (perhaps unfairly) that it came from Ferg.

Regardless, someone at OES is goddamn terrible at videogames. I don't even consider myself particularly adroit at these sorts of games (never played any IE games on higher than core difficulty, and still found a decent amount of challenge in them), but there were exactly two fights that I wiped on in PoE: Raedric#1 and adra dragon.
Raedric was mostly because I only had Eder and Aloth with me.
The adra dragon I actually wiped a couple times, got frustrated with the shittily built companions, went and made my own party of 6 and then roflstomped her on the first try, so I guess I did use a little bit of cheese there.
Outside of those two fights I one-shotted every encounter.

It frankly boggles my mind that during QA someone thought the game was too hard. There're few things I find more frustrating as a player than steamrolling through every encounter after selecting a difficulty level labeled "hard".
When even the fucking SR games have a more challenging "hard" difficulty than your game, major warning sirens should be going off.
 
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ArchAngel

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Yeah, guess they're doubling down on Unity.
:negative:


That won't make the Fighter any less boring.
Did I say it would. But you can ditch one completely with this method as you no longer need one to engage more than one enemy. You can just play the game like BG
 

Metal Hurlant

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Sensuki Can you finish PoE and tell us what tactics you used on the end battle. I really want you to finish PoE and hear your thoughts on the whole game, especially the end part of the game.
 

Roguey

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Pillars of Eternity cucked Sensuki so hard that he can't even play games anymore, he's not going back to it.

Regardless, someone at OES is goddamn terrible at videogames.

Most of them are.

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/inde...wyer-writing-checks-obsidian-cant-cash.99149/
I can personally test things on Hard, as can Bobby and a few other folks, but most of the other devs cannot. Or rather, they wouldn't really get anywhere. If I listened to them for tuning advice, Hard wouldn't be hard at all.
 

AwesomeButton

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Does anyone have a list of interviews with PoE leads or with Feargus since PoE's release? I'm curious to see what answers they have been giving to "Will you use Kickstarter for PoE2?"
 

Fairfax

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Worse than paladin at tanking, yes. And it was also the case in the IE games. As for DD... current meta favors +speed because you can finally stack enough of it to make a difference. A fighter with high attack speed and +accuracy/+damage talents won't fall too far behind a melee rogue in terms of pure DPS and actual damage done will probably end up even closer because Fighter is more durable.

Now I'm not saying that Fighter is great or anything. I'm saying that the patch changes make perfect sense - they give you higher natural Def, the ability to wear heavier armor without crippling your focus on +speed, more accuracy when you need it and damage scaling on talented attacks. Maybe it's not enough to make Fighter shine but it's a step in the right direction.


And that's why we so desperately need Fighter to be good at tanking...

Seriously though, you're just making this stuff up. Chanters and Rangers can be decent tanks but certainly not better than Fighters. It's pure tanking that has become less viable not the Fighter's ability to perform it. You don't want to build zero DPS invulnerable damage sponges in TWM - it just doesn't pay off anymore. Paladin can get away with having low DPS only because Paladin has OP auras and is ridiculously OP when it comes to healing.
That's the whole problem. The Fighter was built to be a pure tank, a hybrid or the poor man's damage-dealer. Its design as a tank was heavily dependent on the original mechanics. It was not flexible enough to be adapted the post-2.0 updates, so they simply gave up, almost all of the changes to the class increased damage, not defensive capabilities.

A Chanter has strong buffs and disables, plus the strong summons. A Ranger gives you an extra frontliner and higher damage. Why would anyone pick a Fighter now? As you said, pure tanking is less viable, which makes any Fighter trying to be a pure tank worthless, while a DD Fighter is worse than all of the others.
Does anyone have a list of interviews with PoE leads or with Feargus since PoE's release? I'm curious to see what answers they have been giving to "Will you use Kickstarter for PoE2?"
Feargus said future crowdfunded games will be funded through Fig.
 
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Yeah they've recently been very cautious to avoid saying PoE2 will use crowdfunding of any kind. A close-reading of their post-release comments suggest that Josh at least thinks that PoE's production was negatively affected by feature creep due to overpromising during the Kickstarter.
 

AwesomeButton

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Yeah they've recently been very cautious to avoid saying PoE2 will use crowdfunding of any kind. A close-reading of their post-release comments suggest that Josh at least thinks that PoE's production was negatively affected by feature creep due to overpromising during the Kickstarter.
I agree this is probably what has been his conclusion from the campaign. Their whole Kickstarter campaign sounds like it was running on improvisation and it's a miracle that the game got released at the level of quality at which it was.

Josh has said more than once that they were making up goals on the go. I'm pretty sure they got into a vicious circle of "Promise a feature to attract backer money -> Try to estimate implementation of this feature with Unity, which you haven't yet researched properly -> You can't make a good estimate -> Promise a new feature to ensure your being able to deliver on a previously promised feature..." and so on.

From looking at the game, my impression is that the Stronghold and the "Second big city" were never supposed to be there.

I guess the combat system could have also been improved if its problems didn't surface (in the Backer Beta) at a point when it was already too late (read too expensive) to revise its underlying principles. Too much man-hours were tied to changing anything at the base level.

In the end it was very fortunate for Obsidian that the game was received so well despite all this.

I think Obsidian's takeaway has been that running a Kickstarter for a project of such complexity affects the end product's quality negatively. I just found this quote from Feargus where he says how they are definetly not going to Kickstart more games, but they are kickstarting the Eastern Reach card game:
For our next games, absolutely [we won’t use Kickstarter]. But to be clear, we just worked with another company to do a board game. We did the Pillars of Eternity card game. That would still be something we’d use other crowdfunding sites to do, just because it’s not what we do, but it’s connected. I don’t want to say we would never do anything affiliated with any of the other crowdfunding outlets. But for games, this is why we’re getting together to do this together. And I’ll say together once more.

By the last "this" he means Fig. I imagine they will run with the story "Kickstarter is for starting, a franchise an IP, and for those who have been successful the first time, there is Fig. We were successful, hence we are going for Fig this time." I guess Fig's main selling point to developers would probably be saving them this "stretch goals" buildup that PoE suffered from.
 

AwesomeButton

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This just in: http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82687-pillars-of-balancing/page-7#entry1743981
Josh Sawyer said:
The Ability and Talent system would likely be revised in a sequel. I know there are a bunch of Talents that aren't appealing. I've tried to tune Abilities and Talents up in circumstances where people give specific criticism. E.g. many of the paladin Abilities and ranger Talents got tuned way up in the last patch. Fighter abilities are being tuned up in 2.03 (now in beta).

The approach to balance will be similar. We do continue to improve enemy AI and abilities in new expansion areas (e.g. Crägholdt) and will continue to improve base game AI in future patches.
 

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