Game News Project Eternity Kickstarter Update #49: Prototype Demo

[skuphundaku]

I only wish someone would learn their fucking lesson and lock the camera in place. Fully rotational just does NOT work for these types of games because shit will keep getting in the way and it is disorienting. It creates a situation where the player has to continually fiddle with something that should be imperceptible.

It's disorienting if you're in the double digit IQ range.

 

[AngryKobold]

When it comes to isometric graphics, 3D is superior to 2D in every aspect, both technically and visually. There's one condition though: if it's done right.

I've seen no fucking isometric RPG using 3D done right. Neither technically nor visually.

If you have you have never witnessed a good 3D isometric game, how do you know that isometric 3D is superior to 2D?

Not sure if trying hard or too much ale.

For instance, strategy games are doing it pretty well. As long as they stick to open spaces and put a minimal effort to make graphics clear.

In RPGs there's a big deal with indoor scenes and crap obscuring the view. 2D games solved it through specific level design. 3D games solved it only partially through camera adjustation. Stupid manboons never heard of walls translucency. As if it's any challenge.

3D being disappointing is only the fault of developers, not the technology. Call it incompetency, wrong goals, cost cutting or whatever. I call it idiocy.

The days of significant hardware limitations are long gone. Current cards are capable of generating in real time results being on par with prerendered. Go watch any tech demo. It ain't a magic, you know. Just standard features. And what you ask for is just a sharp, highly detailed image. It's nothing.

Have any complains, go ask graphics programmers: "why"? Defenestrate them after.

 

[J_C]

When it comes to isometric graphics, 3D is superior to 2D in every aspect, both technically and visually. There's one condition though: if it's done right.

I've seen no fucking isometric RPG using 3D done right. Neither technically nor visually.

If you have you have never witnessed a good 3D isometric game, how do you know that isometric 3D is superior to 2D?

Not sure if trying hard or too much ale.

For instance, strategy games are doing it pretty well. As long as they stick to open spaces and put a minimal effort to make graphics clear.

In RPGs there's a big deal with indoor scenes and crap obscuring the view. 2D games solved it through specific level design. 3D games solved it only partially through camera adjustation. Stupid manboons never heard of walls translucency. As if it's any challenge.

3D being disappointing is only the fault of developers, not the technology. Call it incompetency, wrong goals, cost cutting or whatever. I call it idiocy.

The days of significant hardware limitations are long gone. Current cards are capable of generating in real time results being on par with prerendered. Go watch any tech demo. It ain't a magic, you know. Just standard features. And what you ask for is just a sharp, highly detailed image. It's nothing.

Have any complains, go ask graphics programmers: "why"? Defenestrate them after.

You talk about how 3D games can be better than iso 2D in theory, but wake me up when you can prove that it works in practice.

 

[AngryKobold]

There's a very easy way to check the theory in practice. Seriously, it's so easy it astounds me. Set up skyrim with ultrahigh settings and mods for hi- res textures and lighting. Then hack the .ini so the TPS camera can be zoomed out high enough.

Try to think what it'd be if anyone tried to do a game like this for serious. Even bigger resolution for textures. More detailed models. Using the all available tricks for proper effect. Like, shader effects and postprocessing for sharpening... and certainly not for simulating vision in damaged human eye, as it is now.

I doubt you're gonna do it, so I post my own screen below. It's vanilla "ultra" setting plus some random mod for textures. I'm not even trying.

Spoiler

Think of it when next "screenshot" of Wasteland 2 appears... or the first screenshot of DA3.

How does it feel, to be mentally stuck in 2005?

 

[Infinitron]

 

[Havoc]

Bad example. That city looks like shit.

 

[A user named cat]

I'm not even trying.

Yeah we can tell because that looks like complete shit. Seriously, Skyrim? That is your example? Maybe you should go back to trolling AoD forum and keep your dumbassery there.

 

[Zeriel]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the pre-rendered technique is always going to look better, per dollar spent. You take the best possible 3D techniques, then you get the benefits of not having to worry about polygon counts, and you also get to touch things up after the fact. I don't see how this is really up for debate whatsoever. It's a self-evident fact of the methods used. The benefits of 3D are in the real-time aspects, not how it looks. If anything, the Project Eternity demo probably is a poor example of what pre-rendering is capable of--imagine AAA budgets with this sort of technique.

 

[IDtenT]

It doesn't take a genius to figure out that the pre-rendered technique is always going to look better, per dollar spent. You take the best possible 3D techniques, then you get the benefits of not having to worry about polygon counts, and you also get to touch things up after the fact. I don't see how this is really up for debate whatsoever. It's a self-evident fact of the methods used. The benefits of 3D are in the real-time aspects, not how it looks. If anything, the Project Eternity demo probably is a poor example of what pre-rendering is capable of--imagine AAA budgets with this sort of technique.

What is "look better"? 3D has a lot more potential to blow you away with Epic. If you're doing an oil painting then sure, 2D will look better.

 

[FeelTheRads]

Skyrim

How does it feel, to be mentally stuck in 2005?

What's in 2005? And how does it feel to have no taste whatsoever?

 

[Brzęczyszczykiewicz]

Spoiler

Think of it when next "screenshot" of Wasteland 2 appears... or the first screenshot of DA3.

How does it feel, to be mentally stuck in 2005?

They look worse than W2 not to mention Chaos Chronicles or Path of Exile.

 

[IDtenT]

There is a lot wrong with that Skyrim picture, but I think he was emphasising the use of the Z-axis.

 

[Mortmal]

I dont know if 3D is better than 2D, but old games in 2D seems to age much better, not only infinity engine games, age of wonders still looks great. In any case i love the bucolic background of that video, its certainly way better than the "new shit" with its liters of blood on the screen. I hope the combat system wont turn out ot be draogn age light, but at least the art direction is way better than whats bioware doing atm.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Once again the Codex proves themselves to be a bunch of graffix whores.

 

[AngryKobold]

No, skyrim makes a very good example for several reasons.

First, it's still on my HDD. Was easy to modify too. That's a big plus in my book.

Second, because it's skyrim. FPS looking like crap unless modded, made for outdated hardware. Set to soften as much as possible. Maps were never meant to be watched from this perspective.

Yet it's better than I expected. Just look how many details are preserved. And this is just your shitty skyrim on standard configuration. And again, it's FPS looking like... etc.

Better assets, different shader effects and you'd get a map for Commandos.

TLDR version:
Yes, it's skyrim. It looks like shit. 3D is shit. Bah! Everything is shit. You can sleep well. The banner of 2D still proudly stands, unbeaten.

 

[A user named cat]

The banner of 2D still proudly stands, unbeaten.

 

[Davaris]

I dont know if 3D is better than 2D, but old games in 2D seems to age much better, not only infinity engine games, age of wonders still looks great.

I said this much when 3D pushed 2D out, in the late 90s early 2000s. It and the constant upgrades required to keep up with 3D, is why I resisted getting a 3D card for so long.

On the game making and distribution side, I would say 2D tile based engines are king, for these kinds of games. Small indie devs, would be wise to never use a Baldur's Gate style engine. Only big companies like Obsidian, could make and distribute games made like this profitably. 2D tile based or use a 3D engine, would be my advice.

 

[Semper]

Set up skyrim with ultrahigh settings and mods for hi- res textures and lighting. [...] It's vanilla "ultra" setting plus some random mod for textures.

VS

And this is just your shitty skyrim on standard configuration.

 

[Kz3r0]

Ignored AngryKobold, the only known case where being dumb is synonymous with being blind.

 

[Roguey]

That Skyrim picture would look better if it was painted over and used as a 2D image.

 

[St. Toxic]

3D is pointless when viewed from a fixed perspective.

 

[Rake]

3D is pointless when viewed from a fixed perspective.

 

[Zeriel]

3D is pointless when viewed from a fixed perspective.

Hallelujah, it's raining reason and logic!

 

[Infinitron]

3D is pointless when viewed from a fixed perspective.

I agree if you mean only 3D maps and terrain. 3D objects and characters are a different story.

 

[AngryKobold]

Your criticism is so primitive. The reaction is quite amusing though.

I'm curious what results could've been got in "upgraded" Crysis and Stalker. Or maybe just in default Witcher. It offered rendering of much higher quality. The big minus is lack of decent test scene... and the issue of repositioning camera.