Vapourware Rate the codex top 10

[Butter]

about the way it makes every gameplay decision feel meaningful? The way exploration and resource management and your build all inform each other and how easy or difficult any given challenge can be.

Ss2 has those too, considerably stronger at that either

I'm not sure I agree when you can farm the endlessly respawning enemies for health hypos, but SS2 is a great game nonetheless. Deus Ex is in pretty great company if that's your counterexample.

 

[Ryan muller]

about the way it makes every gameplay decision feel meaningful? The way exploration and resource management and your build all inform each other and how easy or difficult any given challenge can be.

Ss2 has those too, considerably stronger at that either

I'm not sure I agree when you can farm the endlessly respawning enemies for health hypos, but SS2 is a great game nonetheless. Deus Ex is in pretty great company if that's your counterexample.

sure, you can

However, cyber modules are a lot more scarce than SP in Deus ex, in fact, at DE, you can end the game with 34K exp which is a lot, even tho still not able to master everything

Weapons also have durability and they constantly JAM, which means that a character with or without repair investment will have different experiences in obtaining weapon or having to use melee, on top of that, levels are more difficult to walk at compared to Deus ex, since they are way more claustrophobic and have less ways of avoiding combat, which means a player will need to use their skills to the best of their creative input in order to run away or survive if out of resources, while in DE you can manipulate things on the scenario and find alternate routes quite easily. In fact, thats one of the main differences, DE gives you a lot of alternative ways around the same problem, sometimes you wont even need investment in skills to do so, i never invested a point at swimming and im still able to use the ocean to move around areas for example

In SS2 if you dont invest at hacking you can bet your ass youll have to save those damn ice picks or else get fucked.

All in all, when playing SS2 im always thinking about when its better to use X or Y element before loosing acess to it by sheer scarcity, while as in Deus ex i dont mind much since i know i have alternative ways of doing the same thing.

 

[Ryan muller]

PS:T - 6/10: The writing is strong, characters are cool, party is very fleshed out, setting is rather unique and the conflict regarding TNO is quite fascinating, shame the combat is so bad and the system is so dumbed down compared to BG1/2 to the point you only have 4 classes to choose from when it comes to your PC. some quests are cool and related to TNO's memory loss and past, but the gameplay in most are quite simplistic and the narrative ends up being quite short, none have the puzzle solving quality of Fo's quests and the itemization doesnt help since most items are related to combat and almost none are for non-lethal gameplay or skill manipulation, while combat is quite rare and much worse than any other I.E game (mind you that most builds wont work in this game, try high AC dodger and fail miserably). its decent, althought DE made it a bit obsolete.

Even with your complaints, some of which are very valid, a 6/10 is way too low for a game with such strong writing. Arguably the best story in any RPG ever.

Thing is, you rate Chrono trigger as one of the best RPGs ever, and Chrono Trigger has combat which is just as bad if not worse. Chrono Trigger requires literally baby-level tactics and strategies to succeed, and if you equip the right items the game plays itself (the Ruby armour essentially turns most boss fights into auto-plays). Chrono Trigger also has baby-level puzzle solving too. So how you forgive Chrono Trigger but down mark Planescape Torment is just daft.

Same thing can be said for a lot of your complaints against Deus Ex.

CT has no puzzles, i just saw your comment now. most of the side content is related to dungeon crawling or exploring different time-lines (which is the closest to a puzzle that it has, its definitively cooler than rotating a door, let me put like that)

Also combat is not as bad, its decent. having to actually rotate party members is a plus too and so is enemies actually acting differently instead of the gogo advance and kill everything enemies of PS:T. shit like sentinels becoming invincible when raising their shield, or burning the shield of ogans to deal with their high damage gives a lot more variety to combat, which is one of the main things PS:T lacks. CT is way too easy, definitively. however i dont care for a game being hard or easy if the plot doesnt reinforce said idea, CT is a rule of cool, nothing in it screams it to be hard, in fact, it makes more sense to play less like age of decadence and more like Kotor for a game like that.

In other hand, when i say Fo2 benefits from the random encounters being harder and people walking in large groups in the wastes, people often disagree, i dont understand because i will always defend that a game needs to be well tied together in terms of the writing and the gameplay, i dont judge a game by being easy or hard. people here for example, love the first Fo and Ultima underworld barely even mentioning how both of those games are in fact, WAY too easy. in fact, i dont think ive died in UW before i reached L7. bashing on easier games is kind of a meme at this point.

CT has much better pacing either, literally every time i went to beat it i ended up finishing in the next day because it flows way too nicely, first section being linear enough to focus on story progression, then slowly becoming more open ended and allowing you to visit the world and different timelines, while PS:T has some really boring sections and a bunch of exposition (not nearly as much as PoE but still)

The main difference while playing both is that the flaws in CT barely detract much from the experience, instead you just think something could be better, but everything is working to make the story flow well, while in PS:T you constantly ask why even have combat in the first place since the story telling would actually benefit of not having such, when DE came out, it only proved this point.

 

[Falksi]

PS:T - 6/10: The writing is strong, characters are cool, party is very fleshed out, setting is rather unique and the conflict regarding TNO is quite fascinating, shame the combat is so bad and the system is so dumbed down compared to BG1/2 to the point you only have 4 classes to choose from when it comes to your PC. some quests are cool and related to TNO's memory loss and past, but the gameplay in most are quite simplistic and the narrative ends up being quite short, none have the puzzle solving quality of Fo's quests and the itemization doesnt help since most items are related to combat and almost none are for non-lethal gameplay or skill manipulation, while combat is quite rare and much worse than any other I.E game (mind you that most builds wont work in this game, try high AC dodger and fail miserably). its decent, althought DE made it a bit obsolete.

Even with your complaints, some of which are very valid, a 6/10 is way too low for a game with such strong writing. Arguably the best story in any RPG ever.

Thing is, you rate Chrono trigger as one of the best RPGs ever, and Chrono Trigger has combat which is just as bad if not worse. Chrono Trigger requires literally baby-level tactics and strategies to succeed, and if you equip the right items the game plays itself (the Ruby armour essentially turns most boss fights into auto-plays). Chrono Trigger also has baby-level puzzle solving too. So how you forgive Chrono Trigger but down mark Planescape Torment is just daft.

Same thing can be said for a lot of your complaints against Deus Ex.

CT has no puzzles, i just saw your comment now. most of the side content is related to dungeon crawling or exploring different time-lines (which is the closest to a puzzle that it has, its definitively cooler than rotating a door, let me put like that)

Also combat is not as bad, its decent. having to actually rotate party members is a plus too and so is enemies actually acting differently instead of the gogo advance and kill everything enemies of PS:T. shit like sentinels becoming invincible when raising their shield, or burning the shield of ogans to deal with their high damage gives a lot more variety to combat, which is one of the main things PS:T lacks. CT is way too easy, definitively. however i dont care for a game being hard or easy if the plot doesnt reinforce said idea, CT is a rule of cool, nothing in it screams it to be hard, in fact, it makes more sense to play less like age of decadence and more like Kotor for a game like that.

In other hand, when i say Fo2 benefits from the random encounters being harder and people walking in large groups in the wastes, people often disagree, i dont understand because i will always defend that a game needs to be well tied together in terms of the writing and the gameplay, i dont judge a game by being easy or hard. people here for example, love the first Fo and Ultima underworld barely even mentioning how both of those games are in fact, WAY too easy. in fact, i dont think ive died in UW before i reached L7. bashing on easier games is kind of a meme at this point.

CT has much better pacing either, literally every time i went to beat it i ended up finishing in the next day because it flows way too nicely, first section being linear enough to focus on story progression, then slowly becoming more open ended and allowing you to visit the world and different timelines, while PS:T has some really boring sections and a bunch of exposition (not nearly as much as PoE but still)

The main difference while playing both is that the flaws in CT barely detract much from the experience, instead you just think something could be better, but everything is working to make the story flow well, while in PS:T you constantly ask why even have combat in the first place since the story telling would actually benefit of not having such, when DE came out, it only proved this point.

Exactly, CT has no puzzles. It doesn't even challenge it's players on that front.

A game being easy makes it frictionless and pointless, you may as well watch a movie or read a book. If you're criticizing PS:T for it's lacking combat, ignoring CT's easiness is hypocritical, as that too makes it lacking to anyone who's not a complete beginner. And PS:T has the story depth to carry it's lacking combat, CT doesn't, it's kids level stuff.

And hard disagree about CT's pacing. After the first 8 hours everything drops off and the mid game is vapid. You get all your characters, they all dump their stories on you, and then barely any of them say a word until their side-quests at the end. Throw in the fact that there's no journal or clear direction mid-game, so if you leave the game a few days you can be bouncing around time trying to remember what you were doing (fighting the same time-gate battles over and over again), and CT's pacing can be downright awful.

Combat was so lacking in CT I found myself asking "why even have combat in the first place" after almost every battle. I also found myself asking that of PS:T, but it's story was WAY better than CT's and made playing it worthwhile.

 

[Ryan muller]

If you're criticizing PS:T for it's lacking combat, ignoring CT's easiness is hypocritical

It doesnt, CT isnt RTwP nor it has as repetitive combat (as mentioned, due to enemy variety being a thing). Also, this is a bit redundant, i never had one death in neither game from beggining to the end, difference being that the setting of CT reinforce it as a rule of cool shounen, while PST is supposedly the harshest setting in existence. why would you ever have planescape as an example of a challenging game? Its pretty much a VN. Theres absolutely zero challenge. Honestly if you hate CT by being way too easy but like PS:T that kind of makes you hypocritical in a way, unless you are trying to sell me its somehow more challenging, while, its actually so easy it used to be my recommendation for begginers at the genre.

Its also the kind of game in which being more complex in some fronts ends up being a detriment since the more they add, the more its limited nature shows.

For example. CT is a linear game with barely anything to choose on character progression aside from equipment and char rotation, PS:T uses DnD ruleset so it has builds, a bunch of char options and different things you can do at char creation, however everything that isnt a mage char is objectively worse since the game is so focused on dialogue and have almost no combat, which is actually a detriment.

I can keep piling up this stuff and it ends up as an underwhelming experience, while CT is just a simple fun experience. Its like watching OG dragonball, you watch to see kids fighting demons and martial artists doing cool stuff, not to question yourself the value of a human existence. And theres nothing inherently wrong with it.

 

[Falksi]

If you're criticizing PS:T for it's lacking combat, ignoring CT's easiness is hypocritical

It doesnt, CT isnt RTwP nor it has as repetitive combat (as mentioned, due to enemy variety being a thing). Also, this is a bit redundant, i never had one death in neither game from beggining to the end, difference being that the setting of CT reinforce it as a rule of cool shounen, while PST is supposedly the harshest setting in existence. why would you ever have planescape as an example of a challenging game? Its pretty much a VN. Theres absolutely zero challenge. Honestly if you hate CT by being way too easy but like PS:T that kind of makes you hypocritical in a way, unless you are trying to sell me its somehow more challenging, while, its actually so easy it used to be my recommendation for begginers at the genre.

Its also the kind of game in which being more complex in some fronts ends up being a detriment since the more they add, the more its limited nature shows.

For example. CT is a linear game with barely anything to choose on character progression aside from equipment and char rotation, PS:T uses DnD ruleset so it has builds, a bunch of char options and different things you can do at char creation, however everything that isnt a mage char is objectively worse since the game is so focused on dialogue and have almost no combat, which is actually a detriment.

I can keep piling up this stuff and it ends up as an underwhelming experience, while CT is just a simple fun experience. Its like watching OG dragonball, you watch to see kids fighting demons and martial artists doing cool stuff, not to question yourself the value of a human existence. And theres nothing inherently wrong with it.

You've literally just admitted you never once died in either game, thus both are too easy....but PS:T has the story to carry that.

Both are bad with gameplay, both rely on their stories...but PS:T actually has a great story.

"Simple, unchallenging fun" is kids stuff dude. By all means, that may be the level which you game at and you might enjoy that, but that doesn't change the fact that Chrono Triggers is ultimately for kids. I don't watch OG Dragonball either, because I'm not a teenager.

 

[Ryan muller]

"Simple, unchallenging fun" is kids stuff dude. By all means, that may be the level which you game at and you might enjoy that, but that doesn't change the fact that Chrono Triggers is ultimately for kids. I don't watch OG Dragonball either, because I'm not a teenager.

Thats kind of the thing, i dont give a flying fuck if its for kids, its Better, so it doesnt matter

 

[Vic]

chrono trigger is better than PST?

back to the JRPG sub forum peasant

 

[Ryan muller]

chrono trigger is better than PST?

back to the JRPG sub forum peasant

It is tho

PST was made obsolote by Disco Elysium, its also a simplistic game in the shell of a complex one, while CT is honest simple fun.

 

[Vic]

try harder

 

[Ryan muller]

By all means, you PS:T fans are a mistery, why would you even play a game that was a beta for a much better title?

 

[Beans00]

half life blue shift- 6/10
pst- 8/10
disco elysium- 6.5/10
fallout- 10/10
bg2- 9/10
rollercoaster tycoon- 10/10
warlords 3 reign of heroes- 6/10
arcanum- 10/10
NoX- 8/10
heretic shadow of the serpent rider- 8.5/10
bg1-9.25/10
gorasul legacy of the dragon- 3/10
fallout 2-10/10
siege of avalon- 8.5/10
delta force xtreme- 4/10
lionheart legacy of the crusader- 3/10
medal of honour pacific assault- 4.5/10
fallout NW- 8.5/10
warcraft 2 beyond the fark portal- 6.5/10
deus ex- 10/10
strife quest for the sigil- 9/10
TOEE-8.75/10
boiling point road to hell- 5/10
gothic 2-7/10
duke nukem time to kill-1.5/10
gothic 1-8.25/10
ja2-9.5/10
atom rpg-9/10
gran turismo- 9.5/10
command and conquer renegade-7/10
trudograd-9/10
army men 2-5.5/10
morrowind-3.75/10
super mario world 2 yoshis island-9/10
oblivion-4/10
abomination the nemesis project-2/10
diablo 3- not played yet
age of empires 2-10/10
fallout 3-3.5/10
mario paint-6.5/10
carmageddon- 9/10
fallout 4-2/10
quake 4-3/10
pokemon yellow- 10/10
project snowblind- 3/10
KKND Krush Kill N Destroy- 7.5/10
underrail-9/10
wages of war the business of battle-6.5/10
condemned criminal origins-6.5/10
unreal tournament 2003- 8/10
dark sun shattered lands-8.5/10
fallout tactics-8/10
lords of magic- 5/10
sniper path of vengeance-0.25/10
chrono trigger- 7/10

vtmb- not played still need to

 

[Kev Inkline]

OP basically:

 

[Saldrone]

It tries a bunch of things, it doesnt excel in any of them, particularly, it has a skill system, but skills arent that important, it tries to be a fps/rpg but the gunplay is bad. it tries to be a conspiracy story, but instead of making me interested in the setting and its misteries by slowly revealing everything piece by piece as Age of decadence does, it throws its concept at your face in the very first scene, it tries to be a stealth-like game but the stealth mechanics are awful,etc... its not particularly good, i like its two reboots better

Warren Spector himself knew that his game didn't excel on any individual game genre such as shooting, stealth and role-playing comparing it to Half-Life, Thief and Baldur's Gate respectively.

26:10



The reason why the game is so heckin' good is because the cohesiveness of the aforementioned genres making Deus Ex it's own thing

 

[Ryan muller]

It tries a bunch of things, it doesnt excel in any of them, particularly, it has a skill system, but skills arent that important, it tries to be a fps/rpg but the gunplay is bad. it tries to be a conspiracy story, but instead of making me interested in the setting and its misteries by slowly revealing everything piece by piece as Age of decadence does, it throws its concept at your face in the very first scene, it tries to be a stealth-like game but the stealth mechanics are awful,etc... its not particularly good, i like its two reboots better

Warren Spector himself knew that his game didn't excel on any individual game genre such as shooting, stealth and role-playing comparing it to Half-Life, Thief and Baldur's Gate respectively.

26:10



The reason why the game is so heckin' good is because the cohesiveness of the aforementioned genres making Deus Ex it's own thing

Its pretty much thief + SS2 as it stands, hardly would call the game that original aside from the "all conspiracies are truth" shenanigans

 

[Alphard]

Deus ex is the best RPG of all times, objectively and subjectively ( by me) . don't you dare to shit on GOAT.

btw good bait

 

[Ash]

Its truth tho, SS2 tries much less and ends up as a tighter and more concise experience

Deus ex is pretty much a "squeeze everything into a game" kind of experience

True statements but nonetheless Deus Ex is a pretty remarkable game despite its at times loose kitchen sink design. It all comes together nicely, with some rough edges yes but easily forgivable. Tetris is a focused game that does everything it does without flaw, but that doesn't mean every game should be like Tetris.
Also Deus Ex has mostly intelligent kitchen sink. They squeezed as much as the could...if it makes sense to and fits the vision. Not just because they could.

Anyway, typical Chrono Trigger Fanboy Strikes Again: The Thread. The game is not fun, nor is it suitable for even kids. It's nothing like the many kiddie games of the 90s I'd play and enjoy in my youth, and myself as an eight year old would have decried it for the trash it is. It is like watching paint dry.

 

[Ryan muller]

Deus ex is the best RPG of all times, objectively and subjectively ( by me) . don't you dare to shit on GOAT.

btw good bait

Theres no bait. Deus ex is pretty mid

 

[Ash]

Chrono Trigger ten goats out of ten.
Day of Sex five codex trolls out of ten.

Probably the ultimate normie simpleton opinion I've ever seen, congrats bro. One game is completely braindead and a waste of time, the other a genuine flawed masterpiece.

 

[Ryan muller]

True statements but nonetheless Deus Ex is a pretty remarkable game despite its at times loose kitchen sink design. It all comes together nicely, with some rough edges yes but easily forgivable. Tetris is a focused game that does everything it does without flaw, but that doesn't mean every game should be like Tetris.
Also Deus Ex has mostly intelligent kitchen sink. They squeezed as much as the could...if it makes sense to and fits the vision. Not just because they could.

I do get the ambition argument, since yes, a product that has ambition and execute said ambition well usually ends up better than a product that doesnt try and does less things while doing said things well.

Pay attention to the "execute it well" thing, however. a game that tries to make you able to play it in your way but kind of works the same regardless of how you play and has no element standing out isnt that.

what should i remeber DE for? for its freedom? even tho it means choices actually matter much less than you think since the game barely punishes you for doing things "wrong?"?

For the storyline which spoils its biggest mysteries since the very beggining?

For its gunplay which is lackluster at best?

For its build system which is quite simplistic and doesnt really punish you that much for not investing into certain things?

For its cyberpunk setting which is quite commonground?

I love the overall idea of DE, but all in all i feel like its more of a playground rather than this memorable experience. in SS2 you felt like shit were scarce and not only everything with the exception of the music added up to the horror experience and the idea of slowly finding out what happened in the Von braun as the player explores it and read all of the audio logs. Its cool because its a natural progression and it never undermine its setting in any way.

Once you get quite far the twist happens and a whole new perspective about the incidents are revealed to the player, finally tying the second game to the first one in a cohesive way. Because the choices actually matter and the game doesnt let you just "do whatever" equally, choices feel much more meaningful since you have to use whatever you have to proceed. The level design is more claustrophobic, dont expect the game to let you use alternative routes to avoid battles or swim into different places to skip an entire area, just look at your options and think about the best solution.

DE goes for the "playstyle" route, in which everybody can suceed quite equally and as a result, none of the choices actually matter.

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

Retards argue about which mediocre game is better: the thread

 

[Ryan muller]

Retards argue about which mediocre game is better: the thread

rate them too so we can all laugh at your shitty taste, coward

 

[BosanskiSeljak]

Easily

PS:T - never completed, started multiple times but never in the mood or had the patience to sit through purple prose: the game coupled with truly atrocious combat

Fallout - 9/10 , the game that started it all. consistent, replayable, basically the only fallout you can play if you don't want to play a meme, etc. talked about it extensively already

BG2 - do not care about this franchise, never gripped me, one of the most overrated franchises of all time (though not close to the top ones)

Arcanum - 8/10 , given more time & more polish, this game could have been the best RPG of all time. unfortunate. i really don't care for steampunk though

VTmB - 5/10. voice acting & atmosphere are top notch, santa monica was great for what the game should be, but when half of the game is just grinding shit dungeons (fuck you if you're not a combat focused character) , terrible gameplay.

Fallout 2 - 6/10. again, talked about extensively. wouldve worked much better as a sandbox theme park kinda game. Bethesda was not the start of decline, but good stuff here especially playing as a retard. the only kind of playthrough which makes the adventure make sense, nigger african villager.

Fallout NV - just fucking lol this game is above most of the other stuff on the list. tranny game, not worth my time.

Dues Ex - I played this years ago, don't remember much story wise and have problems running it on modern PC that I'm too lazy to fix. The comments about gameplay are exaggerated though, feels like a PS2 game not a PC game (just like VTmB)

Gothic 2 - 9.8/10 masterpiece in game design, especially with Night of the Raven. Expanded Gothic design to its peak, perfect difficulty, great quest design, atmosphere on point as always. Stick Gothic 1s uniqueness in setting and atmosphere into this game and its perfection.

Don't get so triggered that I talk shit about your normie Chrono Trigger & Witcher 3.

 

[flyingjohn]

santa monica was great for what the game should be

If the devs focused on making only two Santa Monica like hubs the game would be amazing. The beach house is like a verticals slice of all of the options that get nullified once you get past Monica. Such a shame.

 

[Ryan muller]

Fallout - 9/10 , the game that started it all. consistent, replayable, basically the only fallout you can play if you don't want to play a meme, etc. talked about it extensively already

80℅ agreed

Arcanum - 8/10 , given more time & more polish, this game could have been the best RPG of all time. unfortunate. i really don't care for steampunk though

No, althought the setting is good.

VTmB - 5/10. voice acting & atmosphere are top notch, santa monica was great for what the game should be, but when half of the game is just grinding shit dungeons (fuck you if you're not a combat focused character) , terrible gameplay.

Agreed, however its also broken w/o patches

Fallout 2 - 6/10. again, talked about extensively. wouldve worked much better as a sandbox theme park kinda game. Bethesda was not the start of decline, but good stuff here especially playing as a retard. the only kind of playthrough which makes the adventure make sense, nigger african villager.

You never played as a retard. You never replayed it.

Fallout NV - just fucking lol this game is above most of the other stuff on the list. tranny game, not worth my time.

Care to elaborate? Althought i also wouldnt rate NV nowhere near a top 10

Dues Ex - I played this years ago, don't remember much story wise and have problems running it on modern PC that I'm too lazy to fix. The comments about gameplay are exaggerated though, feels like a PS2 game not a PC game (just like VTmB)

It is indeed a ps2 game in a way.

Don't get so triggered that I talk shit about your normie Chrono Trigger & Witcher 3.

Who tf gets triggered in this forum? Lmao