Vapourware Realms Beyond: Ashes of the Fallen - Chaos Chronicles reborn and dead again

[underground nymph]

What an interesting thread. What's the TL : DR for this whole project? Was this even funded with backers money?

they currently experience some difficulties but eventually everything is going to be ok

 

[Tacgnol]

Who knows this could come out in like 10 years like Grimoire.....

There's a small but non-negligible difference between this and Grimoire: someone was actually working on Grimoire.

Define work.

There is no denying it took Cleve a long ass time to finish Grimoire, but he got there in the end. In Cleve's case I suspect the duration was due to his perfectionism rather than any laziness.

Realms Beyond though? I won't call it an outright scam like some, but it's clearly been mismanaged from day 1. The incompetence and lack of business and project knowhow from Hobgoblin is staggering.

 

[Desiderius]

Who knows this could come out in like 10 years like Grimoire.....

There's a small but non-negligible difference between this and Grimoire: someone was actually working on Grimoire.

Define work.

There is no denying it took Cleve a long ass time to finish Grimoire, but he got there in the end. In Cleve's case I suspect the duration was due to his perfectionism rather than any laziness.

Realms Beyond though? I won't call it an outright scam like some, but it's clearly been mismanaged from day 1. The incompetence and lack of business and project knowhow from Hobgoblin is staggering.

Maybe I'll give it another go but the chance I gave Grimoire still seemed pretty unfinished.

 

[Bastardchops]

Quoting the gaywatch while we had the exact same info in this very thread...
Next, you'll send link about a blog talking about a new franchise called Baldur's Gate?

Rather than sift through the thread I searched ceres games and bankruptcy. How behind I am.

 

[mondblut]

Who knows this could come out in like 10 years like Grimoire.....

Grimoire was being worked upon by a true believer with zero regard for "securing funding".

This one sounds like a bunch of amateur modders who wanted to go "pro" without having any idea what being a "pro" entails.

Were it not for kickstarter, such projects usually die in silence 2 years and 2% into development with an explanation like "uh huh we kinda each drifted his own separate ways, life took priority, yadda yadda".

 

[underground nymph]

modders

Who created the most appealing engine and concept I’ve seen since Infinity Engine.

Were it not for kickstarter, such projects usually die in silence 2 years

Can’t stop admiring the amount of industry pros here.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Grimoire was being worked upon by a true believer with zero regard for "securing funding".

This one sounds like a bunch of amateur modders who wanted to go "pro" without having any idea what being a "pro" entails.

That's a bit unfair since the demo was positively received around here.
And we'll probably never know if Hobgoblin was a fake Gobelin all along or if he was just a good but extremely naive developer.

 

[mondblut]

Who created the most appealing engine and concept I’ve seen since Infinity Engine.

It doesn't take a genius auteur to invent an isometric high fantasy game.

That's a bit unfair since the demo was positively received around here.

Producing a demo and actually getting shit done are two very different things, and that's what separates a professional (or a fanatic) from a diletante hobbyist.

 

[Darth Canoli]

Producing a demo and actually getting shit done are two very different things, and that's what separates a professional (or a fanatic) from a diletante hobbyist.

Sure but business plans fail every day, not every dev has a safety net/ lives in his mom's basement.

 

[fantadomat]

 

[mondblut]

Producing a demo and actually getting shit done are two very different things, and that's what separates a professional (or a fanatic) from a diletante hobbyist.

Sure but business plans fail every day, not every dev has a safety net/ lives in his mom's basement.

But only the devs who have a safety net or live in their mom's basement deliver the goods.

 

[lycanwarrior]

Probably should have kept the game within a scope they could achieve with the Kickstarter and Gov funding monies. At least until early access release.

At least we have Solasta and Pathfinder WotR this year to scratch the hardcore CRPG itch.

 

[Dorateen]

Probably should have kept the game within a scope they could achieve with the Kickstarter and Gov funding monies. At least until early access release.

At least we have Solasta and Pathfinder WotR this year to scratch the hardcore CRPG itch.

And Knights of the Chalice 2

 

[Darth Canoli]

At least we have Solasta and Pathfinder WotR this year to scratch the hardcore CRPG itch.

And Knights of the Chalice 2

They probably don't have it since they didn't back it.

Pierre really should have added a straw knight level for these cheap fuckers.

 

[Max Heap]

What an interesting thread. What's the TL : DR for this whole project?

Couple of Krauts being horrible at business, sinking 120 grands of kickstarter cash into the reincarnation of a game that was already under development with a different name/license 10 years ago.

And I actually had to look the time up cause I couldn't believe it's been that long, but apparently the first gameplay trailer for Chaos Chronicles came out 2012. I still remember first reading about CC back then and how it claimed to be inspired by Ultima 5 of all games.

Anyway, that (supposedly) came to an end with the publisher getting into a legal battle with the developers. I'm not entirely sure about the overlaps between Ceres Games (RB) and Coreplay (CC), but both of them sure love splitting their intellectual rights as a security.

 

[slowdive]

Probably should have kept the game within a scope they could achieve with the Kickstarter and Gov funding monies. At least until early access release.

At least we have Solasta and Pathfinder WotR this year to scratch the hardcore CRPG itch.

And Knights of the Chalice 2

And for the non-hardcore, we have Iceblink Engine

 

[Pink Eye]

Probably should have kept the game within a scope they could achieve with the Kickstarter and Gov funding monies. At least until early access release.

At least we have Solasta and Pathfinder WotR this year to scratch the hardcore CRPG itch.

And Knights of the Chalice 2

Don't forget Colony Ship. It's pretty fun. It's in Early Access, but the developers are working their butts off.

 

[Bara]

Probably should have kept the game within a scope they could achieve with the Kickstarter and Gov funding monies. At least until early access release.

At least we have Solasta and Pathfinder WotR this year to scratch the hardcore CRPG itch.

And Knights of the Chalice 2

Don't forget Colony Ship. It's pretty fun. It's in Early Access, but the developers are working their butts off.

And the next DLC for Dungeon of Naheulbeuk (personal) RPG of 2020 which releases tomorrow.

 

[The Avatar]

The trailer says coming out in 2013.

 

[Whisper]

And the next DLC for Dungeon of Naheulbeuk (personal) RPG of 2020 which releases tomorrow.

Finished (should have replayed Underrail in retrospect), but didnt like that one, doubt DLC will do something good

 

[c u in da ballpit ashren]

Found this posted on rpgwatch. https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/sho...7b700377ac5da2eb3&p=1061638093#post1061638093


Originally Posted by Dragonfly
According to several German gaming magazines, one of the founders of the company that's developing Realms Beyond was trying to find a publisher as they had run out of money. He didn't find one and hasn't gotten in touch with his colleagues since. They have no idea where he is, but they can't finish and release the game without his permission. So, RB is dead, I suppose.Most of this is true, but the "they have no idea where he is" is not really accurate. Let me try to summarize what I've gathered from their Discord.

For reference: HobGoblin42 (aka Peter) is the programmer & co-owner of Ceres
Sheihadul (aka Timothy) is the level designer / business manager & co-owner of Ceres
Tharagavverug is the lead writer / quest designer

Because Hobgoblin & Sheihadul are both 50% owner of the company they need to agree on major business decisions. Hobgoblin told us on Discord that sometime last year they were very close to making a deal with an investor which would've let them keep working on the game full-time until they were ready to sell it on Steam Early Access. He felt the deal was fair enough, but evidently Sheihadul disagreed as he pulled them out of the deal at the last minute.

After that, they came to an agreement that Hobgoblin would focus entirely on the programming & Shehaidul would focus on the business side (managing finances and negotiating with potential publishers / investors). They apparently had several interested parties so things still seemed optimistic at that point.

Earlier this year HobGoblin told us he was concerned that he hadn't heard from Sheihadul in an unusually long time. Hobgoblin has since heard from Sheihadul but he is basically not answering questions specific to RB's financial status anymore. It seems like he simply doesn't care about the project anymore.

Since they do have a working engine / toolset and lots of assets, Tharagavverug came up with a backup plan to create a small standalone adventure module that they could finish in the relatively near future with little budget. They'd be able to give it to backers and sell it on Steam to everyone else for a reasonable price. If this was successful they could create other mini adventures with the goal of raising funds to get the main game in a state where it's ready for Early Access.

HobGoblin likes the idea. The problem is they need Sheihadul to agree before they can move forward or he could legally shut it down (as 50% owner). They've proposed the idea to him but as of now he has not agreed to it. Again, seems like he just doesn't care about RB anymore.

You may recall Ceres got a government grant of 100K Euros after the Kickstarter. However, they've only actually received 40K. The reason is the govt. expects progress to be shown (i.e., an upcoming release of something) in order to get the remainder of the grant funds. HobGoblin has said that if action isn't taken soon (either by making a deal with a publisher or proceeding with the backup plan) Ceres will probably have to declare bankruptcy by this Summer.

What happens if Ceres go bankrupt?

HobGoblin apparently personally owns the game engine & tools and some of the 3D character models, so he'll keep those no matter what. However, the IP and the rest of the assets / content that has been created is owned by the company so if it goes bankrupt, these will be auctioned off to pay down any debts. It is unlikely another game co would be interested in purchasing existing pieces of RB (especially since the engine won't be for sale). So in theory, Hobgoblin could buy back some or all of the assets if he can afford to.

Unfortunately that seems to now be the best case scenario. If he can get enough assets to complete a small adventure module they could attempt the backup plan with a new company sans Sheihadul. Seems like a longshot but maybe third time's a charm.

It's fair to say the game was overly ambitious and horribly mismanaged. But I wouldn't call it a scam. Crowdfunding is always a risk. But a "Scam" implies that money collected was used on something other than developing the game and I've seen no evidence of that.

I've played the combat beta, it's very good (albeit still with some bugs and missing features). They've hired a lot of people to work on the game. Composers, writers, artists, level designers… including the artist / cartographer who created their world map (which was one of the stretch goals).

TLDR: Yes the game is in serious trouble due to one half-owner of the company seemingly giving up on the project.

This is why I go solo as an indie. Starting these huge companies? Hiring everyone and their mothers? The most key aspects that are crucial to development being remote/contracted by indeed.com levels of loyalty and passion and discord calls? Why would anyone think a project of any significant magnitude and ambition ever succeed with so many layers of bureaucracy involved from so many different parties of varying degrees of relationships with each other? And all that ends up happening, is that it takes *one* owner of the property to stop giving a fuck, then the whole thing is at a stall. What, was having a government grant for a *video game* not enough for that one guy to keep on working on the project and sort out management issues? I don't even know what this project is (I literally just clicked on codex popular thread and read this post) but I wouldn't even want this type of kitchen mess of a business for a simple unity asset flip game, let alone a 2D game.

So many franchises I can name off the top of my head have been ruined by this very same thing. XCOM, Fallout, Vampire Masquerade Bloodlines, Resident Evil, Silent Hill, anything that was popular was usually done so in spite of corporate overhead.

XCOM was a game called Laser Squad between two brothers, who had minimal input over their work, Fallout was an off-the-clock breakroom board game discussion over pizza, Silent Hill was the rejects of Konami literally named Team Silent (because they weren't wanted on any project and expected to be quiet) located in a whole separate building to themselves.

This shit just gets me.

 

[underground nymph]

I am not sure what is your point here exactly, but let me remind you of the Baldur’s Gate which was quite a thought out venture with relatively big investments primarily aiming to make a revenue, and the managing team of three.

 

[Reinhardt]

Any day now!

 

[Darth Canoli]

XCOM was a game called Laser Squad between two brothers

And then Microprose turned that forgotten thing into a legend.
So 1 point for not solo devs, i guess.

Fallout was an off-the-clock breakroom board game discussion over pizza, Silent Hill was the rejects of Konami literally named Team Silent (because they weren't wanted on any project and expected to be quiet) located in a whole separate building to themselves.

Oh wait, that's 3, plus all of the other great games we get because publishers or publishers/co-developers (like Microprose) gets involved...

Are you arguing against your own model?

 

[c u in da ballpit ashren]

XCOM was a game called Laser Squad between two brothers

And then Microprose turned that forgotten thing into a legend.
So 1 point for not solo devs, i guess.

Fallout was an off-the-clock breakroom board game discussion over pizza, Silent Hill was the rejects of Konami literally named Team Silent (because they weren't wanted on any project and expected to be quiet) located in a whole separate building to themselves.

Oh wait, that's 3, plus all of the other great games we get because publishers or publishers/co-developers (like Microprose) gets involved...

Are you arguing against your own model?

Microprose isn't around anymore, so look how that turned out. The ownership of XCOM went under so many different people and changes and companies, until it eventually settled for the protoge of Sid Meier at 2Kgames, who was a hardcore fan of the original XCOM. If it wasn't for that legality bullshit where XCOM turned into basically Freelancer, and some weird hybrid of turn based and real time, then later a first person shooter that never went anywhere, we'd probably have more quality XCOM games out. Didn't happen though. Too many cooks spoil the broth and that's just one example.