Reasons Why Younger Gamers Don't Get Older RPGs?.

[Berengar]

Most young people want to be involved in whatever the popular thing is with their peers. Young people, for the most part, like new things.

Also a lot of older games usually banked on you reading the manual before playing which nowadays they don't have(yes, digital versions come with them but your average user isn't gonna find the file and read through it, sad reality of the times). When Johnny Zoom Zoom hits a wall that could have been solved by knowing you needed to hit something on the numpad his first instinct is to leave. Entertainment is getting more express and easier to use with less brain power. "It's comfy that way", a lot of people are agreeing. Old games never dreamed of that mindset.

 

[S.torch]

or to the degree Peter Jackson's film adaptations manifested it as cinema

Peter Jackson movies manifested nothing more than a complete lack of understanding of Tolkien's work. They should not be taken as an example of anything.

 

[Cat Headed Eagle]

There is one important aspect you guys are ignoring when talking about this.

Most "gamers", young, young-ish and "young adultish", played on consoles, not PC. As a whole, "gaming" is a console thing. This is a PC centric forum and as such you guys think PC first, console second, and equating "RPG" with the usual suspects, Fallout, Baldur's Gate, etc.
This is not the case for what you'd call "mainstream" gamers. Someone mentioned Chrono Trigger, Final Fantasy. Those were "the" RPGs to play, and like that, RPG, period. When most people say "the mid 00s were prety bad for RPGs", they aren't talking about the games released between Bloodlines and Divinity Original Sin, they mean the dip in quality that console oriented RPGs (jrpgs for everyone else) took. The Infinity Engine is treated as a museum artifact that aged terribly and are impossible to play today but Final Fantasy 6 is celebrated as one of the best games of all time, without having its gameplay or technical aspects questioned. It doesn't have to do with the quality of games per se, but the divide between what people expect from gaming and what you guys expect too. I remember that even among PC gaming magazines there was this air of defeatism that carried all throughout the 90s about how consoles were the main gaming platform for people and that they were capable of much better spectacles than PCs, and by the time PCs were able to "catch up", so to speak, we were in the Microsoft VS Sony landscape where games were all multiplatform.

I am definitely a console gamer not a PC gamer (except for games with light gameplay like VNs and games that are PC exclusive and I really really wanted to play, like Tyranny). I would also hazard a guess that I am also much younger than most people here (late 20s). Yet Neither I nor any other console gamer I know think the way you describe (oh, and WRPGs are my favorite genre ever). You are completely ignoring that almost any WRPG worth its salt is avaliable on consoles too and that has been the case since the 6th generation (which is why I laugh when someone still calls them "CRPGs", a term that stopped making sense last millineum). I didn't get introduced to WRPGs through Infinity Engine games (I did go back to experience some of them later on though). I got introduced to them through Dragon Age, KOTOR, Skyrim, Jade Empire, etc. As well as hybrids like Mass Effect, Fallout: New Vegas, Alpha protocol, etc. All of which were easily available and accessible on my Xboxs. In the 6th gen developers discovered that CRPGs can thrive on consoles and sell way more, and the 7th gen cemented that.

However, I fully 100% agree that the way people act here is like the "PC Master race" joke amplified 10 times. It is pretty funny at times, like when I asked about modding NWN to include modules on PS4 like has already been done on Switch, and one "genius" replied to sell my PS4 and get a PC instead. and we are talking about a 20 year old game that can be run on a potato yet he presumed the reason I am not playing it there is because I don't have a PC capable of running it. It was a reply so moronic it was hilarious.

I was originally referring to rpgs available before that time frame. The opposition between consoles and PCs when it came to a gaming platform kinda stopped by the timeframe you mention, where pc and consoles became part of the same shared landscape of ports. In fact, this was the time frame where asian rpgs kinda lost it for a while and western ones flourished. I already knew of Baldur's Gate when Dragon Age came out but it felt like both games belonged to completely different dimensions.

I think Cat Headed Eagle is on to something. There's a huge difference between then and now when it comes to PC vs Consoles.

When I was young almost everyone had a desktop computer in their home whereas now people hardly even have laptops. So back in the day most kids I knew played computer games. However I don't think that's the case any more and buying a PC for gaming is a huge investment and you also need a lot of space in your home. There's probably an even bigger threshold to get into PC gaming now compared to how it was.

The purpose of the PC back then was for the parents to pay bills or whatever but the kids would also use it to play games, browse the web, paint stuff or whatever. Now most parents do that stuff on their phone or maybe on their work computer. So the kids wont have the same access to the PC as gaming platform.

Consoles were always "lesser" than pcs in term of hardware, but I distinctly remember these pc gaming magazines I mentioned saying stuff like their library of games was better, that they arguably had better dev teams and all. In the 90s people saw PC as the platform for flight simulators and that was that, but consoles were being actively marketed to the kids of the house (they aren't anymore). And while PC could have Jazz Jackrabbit and Commander Keen, the SNES had Mario, and the Mega Drive had Sonic. I don't think a kid would've been interested in the Gold Box games and all the stuff you had to do to play the game, but Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy were already seen as prime examples of rpgs back then. This difference between jrpgs and crpgs only became apparent to me when I learned about communities like this, but I have to admit the divide has become more apparent in media in recent years (probably to avoid being associated with fanservice, which anglos despise). Blizzard changed a lot of things for the landscape of PC gaming, but as console centric games like Metal Gear Solid and FF7 started getting PC ports, there was still this feel about the best/most hyped games being in different platforms first.

That is not true at all. Or maybe it is in certain circles but far from a universal truth. For me and my best friend who started on a SNES we got into cRPGs because of GoldBox games, specifically for the "Das schwarze Auge: Nordlantriologie" or as it is called in the US "Realms of Arkania". We played the crap out of those games. I got my first PC at the age of 13 after about 5 years having a SNES and a Gameboy. After I got my PC and only a few games like X-Com 1 and 2, Der Clou, Dark Forces 2 and a few others I gave my console to my 3 younger sisters and never looked back. Another friend introduced me to Sensible Soccer which was far superior to any football, or soccer as it is called in the US, game I had played on consoles.
I possessed briefly a Gamecube solely for Metroid Prime series because back then there was no emulator available and in fact I was not even really aware of them. Once I was aware I refuse to even give a single console a second thought, the whole buisness model is nothing but exploitatative greed by these shitbag corporations and console games had a very strong negative impact overall on PC games and were in no small part responsible for the steady decline we have seen the past 15-20 years or so.

I know, the last console I had was a SNES and haven't looked back since. But it's a culture thing too, not just something made out of anecdotes. Europe had a whole different scene altogether too, especially in Germany.

In my experience, consoles are a huge roadblock for normies trying to experience quality RPGs. I'll encounter someone who seems genuinely interested in delving past the surface, maybe he's played Wasteland 3 and DOS 2, but you can't recommend anything interesting like Might and Magic or Fallout or Wizardry because he only has PS5 and XBox One. It's all well and good that the big tentpole CRPGs get released on consoles nowadays, but that ignores things like Underrail and Grimoire that are still PC-exclusive, and it ignores the vast back catalogue of incredible games going back to the 80s. Games like Pool of Radiance and Wizardry 7 actually were released on consoles, but unless you still have your NES or PSX, you'd still need a PC to emulate them today.

People play DOS 2 on a console?

I feel like attempting to do that would make me want to self-terminate.

Being a turn based game, I guess playing it with a controller is natural. Turn based rpgs flourished in many consoles in the past, after all.

 

[FFTW]

I was originally referring to rpgs available before that time frame. The opposition between consoles and PCs when it came to a gaming platform kinda stopped by the timeframe you mention, where pc and consoles became part of the same shared landscape of ports. In fact, this was the time frame where asian rpgs kinda lost it for a while and western ones flourished. I already knew of Baldur's Gate when Dragon Age came out but it felt like both games belonged to completely different dimensions.

Thing is though, you specified the mid 00s in your post

When most people say "the mid 00s were prety bad for RPGs", they aren't talking about the games released between Bloodlines and Divinity Original Sin, they mean the dip in quality that console oriented RPGs (jrpgs for everyone else) took.

yet by "the mid 00s" the integration was already well underway. The timeline where consoles and PCs were different as far as RPGs go (mostly different, because some WRPGs still released on earlier consoles, like Shadowrun and multiple Ultima and Wizardry games) ended with the release of the 6th gen in general and the Original Xbox in particular. The original Xbox led to WRPGS (Morrowind, KOTOR, KOTOR 2, Deus Ex: Invisible War, Jade Empire, and more) selling like hot cakes. Then the release of the Xbox 360 and its exclusive (at the time) Mass Effect that sold millions of copies happened in the mid 00s too. So if you were talking about games released back when the divide existed then your timeline was wrong as the console gamers of the mid 00s would have been enjoying WRPGs too and could easily differentiate between JRPGs and WRPGs.

PS: I find it kinda surprising that you felt BG and DA:O felt really different considering that DA:O was explicitly stated by its developers to be a spiritual successor of BG. It is the closest modern 3D WRPG game to the infinity engine games in fact (as well as one of my favorite games of all time

 

[Norfleet]

Younger gamers get older RPGs just fine. Like I started my kids on the 7, and that one dates all the back the 1960s. Really, they're not difficult to get into at all, RPG-7 is designed to be so simple even a child can use it. Then you just work your way up from there with harder ones.

 

[Norfleet]

This is sort of the crux of the matter. IQs have dropped precipitously in the last 2 decades. TikTok watching mouth breathing drooling retards are legion now. They can't be arsed to figure out how to install a game and if it doesn't work on a phone why even use it? Laptops are for old people and desktops are something you look at in a museum next to CD players and VHS recorders.

See, I don't give my kids phones, because they'd be completely useless this far underground anyway. Also, I don't buy them games. They get two choices: Play the old-ass games I have already, or figure out how to get it off PirateBay. Both of these require figuring things out.

 

[whocares]

I will not eat the bugs. I will not live in a pod. I will not use 2FA.

 

[octavius]

or to the degree Peter Jackson's film adaptations manifested it as cinema

Peter Jackson movies manifested nothing more than a complete lack of understanding of Tolkien's work. They should not be taken as an example of anything.

The more offensive drivel WOTC and Amazon churns out, the better Peter Jackson looks.

 

[Zboj Lamignat]

However, I fully 100% agree that the way people act here is like the "PC Master race" joke amplified 10 times. It is pretty funny at times, like when I asked about modding NWN to include modules on PS4 like has already been done on Switch, and one "genius" replied to sell my PS4 and get a PC instead. and we are talking about a 20 year old game that can be run on a potato yet he presumed the reason I am not playing it there is because I don't have a PC capable of running it. It was a reply so moronic it was hilarious.

Haha, look, that guy told me to get a PC if I want to mod my games. He even mentioned that specifically in regards to 20yo crpg designed for PCs. What a moron!

 

[cretin]

BG1EE and BG2EE have more active players each than POE1 and POE2 combined. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any game over 20 years old doing better than the IE games with modern audiences.

I don't consider them "old" in the sense being used here. Old is DOS rpgs which people bounce off of because a lot of them are genuinely hard to grok. I've tried to play RoA: star trail recently and it was incredibly tedious, even just chargen took for fucking ever and the UI is very arcane and required RTFM.

 

[Urthor]

Wasn't any different in the old days. Not a single thing changed.

Young people and a deep, deep distaste for reading things isn't new at all.

What's new is that nowadays the majority of the population uses computers. Before it was only the nerds.

Interestingly, the actual reason people hate reading is buried in human computer interaction textbooks. Reading is *hard work* for the brain. It's actually fairly intensive, you can measure people's heart rates increase when they're reading a *genuinely* difficult book.

People with low IQs genuinely can't bear the sweaty effort.

 

[Hace El Oso]

Wasn't any different in the old days. Not a single thing changed.

Young people and a deep, deep distaste for reading things isn't new at all.

What's new is that nowadays the majority of the population uses computers. Before it was only the nerds.

Interestingly, the actual reason people hate reading is buried in human computer interaction textbooks. Reading is *hard work* for the brain. It's actually fairly intensive, you can measure people's heart rates increase when they're reading a *genuinely* difficult book.

People with low IQs genuinely can't bear the sweaty effort.

Right, except IQ, that is to say intelligence and all human potential, is dropping like a rock and the near-complete decline in reading among the general population is a result. It is new.

 

[Dave the Druid]

(From 2010 but I think this still applies)

 

[Bastardchops]

I think it relates to why people don't get into certain types of music of films. If you grow up in this era you've got literally the entire catalogue of gaming, films, music, or books as options and so if something doesn't immediately entertain you you've got alot of other choices.

 

[Bastardchops]

and i'm pretty sure you can find players your age who won't be able to beat shining force, as you can also find a 10yo who can beat the game. age has nothing to do with it. it just depends on your gaming background, and i'm not even so sure about that.

"There are older gamers who aren't good at that game too, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news, checkmate oldfags "

"most of older gamers are pure casuals, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news (this part is correct gg), have a good one (i received an education)"

anything else?

By the way one thing that irritates me about the youth is not capitalizing at the start of sentences. Do it youth.

 

[barricade]

and i'm pretty sure you can find players your age who won't be able to beat shining force, as you can also find a 10yo who can beat the game. age has nothing to do with it. it just depends on your gaming background, and i'm not even so sure about that.

"There are older gamers who aren't good at that game too, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news, checkmate oldfags "

"most of older gamers are pure casuals, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news (this part is correct gg), have a good one (i received an education)"

anything else?

By the way one thing that irritates me about the youth is not capitalizing at the start of sentences. Do it youth.

OK I'LL THINK ABOUT IT

 

[Bastardchops]

and i'm pretty sure you can find players your age who won't be able to beat shining force, as you can also find a 10yo who can beat the game. age has nothing to do with it. it just depends on your gaming background, and i'm not even so sure about that.

"There are older gamers who aren't good at that game too, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news, checkmate oldfags "

"most of older gamers are pure casuals, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news (this part is correct gg), have a good one (i received an education)"

anything else?

By the way one thing that irritates me about the youth is not capitalizing at the start of sentences. Do it youth.

OK I'LL THINK ABOUT IT

I think it at least shows people don't read books much anymore. Capitalizing at the start of sentences makes blocks of text easier to read.

 

[NecroLord]

Wasn't any different in the old days. Not a single thing changed.

Young people and a deep, deep distaste for reading things isn't new at all.

What's new is that nowadays the majority of the population uses computers. Before it was only the nerds.

Interestingly, the actual reason people hate reading is buried in human computer interaction textbooks. Reading is *hard work* for the brain. It's actually fairly intensive, you can measure people's heart rates increase when they're reading a *genuinely* difficult book.

People with low IQs genuinely can't bear the sweaty effort.

Right, except IQ, that is to say intelligence and all human potential, is dropping like a rock and the near-complete decline in reading among the general population is a result. It is new.

Reeeding iz foar doze 18 Int wizzurds!

Anyway, reading is in decline in the West. Kids are now indoctrinated with Critical Race Theory nigger worship, they are taught that being white is bad and that they are born racist. You get absolutely sickening shit like "trans kids" and the normalization of transgenderism and other LGBT depravity. Reading books is now bad because it encourages critical thinking and the use of the brain. In the new Woke World Order, thinking for yourself and using your brain are strictly verboten. You are not allowed to break free from the herd.

 

[Bastardchops]

and i'm pretty sure you can find players your age who won't be able to beat shining force, as you can also find a 10yo who can beat the game. age has nothing to do with it. it just depends on your gaming background, and i'm not even so sure about that.

"There are older gamers who aren't good at that game too, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news, checkmate oldfags "

"most of older gamers are pure casuals, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news (this part is correct gg), have a good one (i received an education)"

anything else?

By the way one thing that irritates me about the youth is not capitalizing at the start of sentences. Do it youth.

OK I'LL THINK ABOUT IT

Actually never mind my theory why do the youth not capitalize the beginnings of sentences?

 

[barricade]

and i'm pretty sure you can find players your age who won't be able to beat shining force, as you can also find a 10yo who can beat the game. age has nothing to do with it. it just depends on your gaming background, and i'm not even so sure about that.

"There are older gamers who aren't good at that game too, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news, checkmate oldfags "

"most of older gamers are pure casuals, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news (this part is correct gg), have a good one (i received an education)"

anything else?

By the way one thing that irritates me about the youth is not capitalizing at the start of sentences. Do it youth.

OK I'LL THINK ABOUT IT

Actually never mind my theory why do the youth not capitalize the beginnings of sentences?

because we're lazy, retarded and we don't read books. you old people are so much better than us.

there, happy?

 

[Bastardchops]

and i'm pretty sure you can find players your age who won't be able to beat shining force, as you can also find a 10yo who can beat the game. age has nothing to do with it. it just depends on your gaming background, and i'm not even so sure about that.

"There are older gamers who aren't good at that game too, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news, checkmate oldfags "

"most of older gamers are pure casuals, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news (this part is correct gg), have a good one (i received an education)"

anything else?

By the way one thing that irritates me about the youth is not capitalizing at the start of sentences. Do it youth.

OK I'LL THINK ABOUT IT

Actually never mind my theory why do the youth not capitalize the beginnings of sentences?

because we're lazy, retarded and we don't read books. you old people are so much better than us.

there, happy?

Hey I get you're angry at the older generations because we brought you shit world but have some standards and read books. And capitalize the start of sentences. Or don't and watch the next generation be pissed off that you contributed further to the degeneration.

 

[barricade]

and i'm pretty sure you can find players your age who won't be able to beat shining force, as you can also find a 10yo who can beat the game. age has nothing to do with it. it just depends on your gaming background, and i'm not even so sure about that.

"There are older gamers who aren't good at that game too, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news, checkmate oldfags "

"most of older gamers are pure casuals, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news (this part is correct gg), have a good one (i received an education)"

anything else?

By the way one thing that irritates me about the youth is not capitalizing at the start of sentences. Do it youth.

OK I'LL THINK ABOUT IT

Actually never mind my theory why do the youth not capitalize the beginnings of sentences?

because we're lazy, retarded and we don't read books. you old people are so much better than us.

there, happy?

Hey I get you're angry at the older generations because we brought you shit world but have some standards and read books. And capitalize the start of sentences. Or don't and watch the next generation be pissed off that you contributed further to the degeneration.

you seem upset

 

[Bastardchops]

and i'm pretty sure you can find players your age who won't be able to beat shining force, as you can also find a 10yo who can beat the game. age has nothing to do with it. it just depends on your gaming background, and i'm not even so sure about that.

"There are older gamers who aren't good at that game too, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news, checkmate oldfags "

"most of older gamers are pure casuals, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news (this part is correct gg), have a good one (i received an education)"

anything else?

By the way one thing that irritates me about the youth is not capitalizing at the start of sentences. Do it youth.

OK I'LL THINK ABOUT IT

Actually never mind my theory why do the youth not capitalize the beginnings of sentences?

because we're lazy, retarded and we don't read books. you old people are so much better than us.

there, happy?

Hey I get you're angry at the older generations because we brought you shit world but have some standards and read books. And capitalize the start of sentences. Or don't and watch the next generation be pissed off that you contributed further to the degeneration.

you seem upset

Couldn't even use grammar. Pathetic.

 

[barricade]

and i'm pretty sure you can find players your age who won't be able to beat shining force, as you can also find a 10yo who can beat the game. age has nothing to do with it. it just depends on your gaming background, and i'm not even so sure about that.

"There are older gamers who aren't good at that game too, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news, checkmate oldfags "

"most of older gamers are pure casuals, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news (this part is correct gg), have a good one (i received an education)"

anything else?

By the way one thing that irritates me about the youth is not capitalizing at the start of sentences. Do it youth.

OK I'LL THINK ABOUT IT

Actually never mind my theory why do the youth not capitalize the beginnings of sentences?

because we're lazy, retarded and we don't read books. you old people are so much better than us.

there, happy?

Hey I get you're angry at the older generations because we brought you shit world but have some standards and read books. And capitalize the start of sentences. Or don't and watch the next generation be pissed off that you contributed further to the degeneration.

you seem upset

Couldn't even use grammar. Pathetic.

yes my english is absolutely terrible

 

[Bastardchops]

and i'm pretty sure you can find players your age who won't be able to beat shining force, as you can also find a 10yo who can beat the game. age has nothing to do with it. it just depends on your gaming background, and i'm not even so sure about that.

"There are older gamers who aren't good at that game too, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news, checkmate oldfags "

"most of older gamers are pure casuals, therefore the measurable retardation of young people like myself is fake news (this part is correct gg), have a good one (i received an education)"

anything else?

By the way one thing that irritates me about the youth is not capitalizing at the start of sentences. Do it youth.

OK I'LL THINK ABOUT IT

Actually never mind my theory why do the youth not capitalize the beginnings of sentences?

because we're lazy, retarded and we don't read books. you old people are so much better than us.

there, happy?

Hey I get you're angry at the older generations because we brought you shit world but have some standards and read books. And capitalize the start of sentences. Or don't and watch the next generation be pissed off that you contributed further to the degeneration.

you seem upset

Couldn't even use grammar. Pathetic.

yes my english is absolutely terrible

Yes my English is absolutely terrible.

That's all it would take.