Return To Monkey Island - MI2 sequel from Ron Gilbert

[jfrisby]

Most of the images in that SCUMMVM forum thread are broken, but stuff like Steel Sky will drive you crazy if you're comparing circles in-game. The scanned artwork and sketches support aspect correction.

Beneath a Steel Sky

BASS isn't square pixel.

 

[Jasede]

IIRC the iMUSE system didn't work properly.

That's *major* decline. Also, they are not using proper aspect ration correction.

You *must* enable aspect-ratio correction for all 320x200 DOS games (and all games developed by American developers, intended primarily for the NTSC market).

I want to have this sentence engraved on my gravestone.

I don't exactly remember but from what I read years ago, basically, iMuse was so clever and intelligent that devs these days just can't recreate it properly. I made that up but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[JarlFrank]

IIRC the iMUSE system didn't work properly.

That's *major* decline. Also, they are not using proper aspect ration correction.

You *must* enable aspect-ratio correction for all 320x200 DOS games (and all games developed by American developers, intended primarily for the NTSC market).

I want to have this sentence engraved on my gravestone.

I don't exactly remember but from what I read years ago, basically, iMuse was so clever and intelligent that devs these days just can't recreate it properly. I made that up but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

It was, mostly just a SHITLOAD of work. They composed SEVERAL different transition tunes depending on which part of the song you were in at the moment you crossed to another screen.

 

[negator2vc]

Still trying to mutilate the best of the Monkey Islands I see!
Just look how the little dicknose guybrush run!!!!

 

[Jasede]

IIRC the iMUSE system didn't work properly.

That's *major* decline. Also, they are not using proper aspect ration correction.

You *must* enable aspect-ratio correction for all 320x200 DOS games (and all games developed by American developers, intended primarily for the NTSC market).

I want to have this sentence engraved on my gravestone.

I don't exactly remember but from what I read years ago, basically, iMuse was so clever and intelligent that devs these days just can't recreate it properly. I made that up but it wouldn't surprise me at all.

It was, mostly just a SHITLOAD of work. They composed SEVERAL different transition tunes depending on which part of the song you were in at the moment you crossed to another screen.

If I remember right that's how it played out but the code was a lot more complicated than that. But I'm not sure!

 

[80s Stallone]

you need aspect-ratio correction for every single 320x200 DOS game ever released,

There are interesting exceptions however. For example Frontier - Elite 2 (1993).

I stand corrected: while the *vast majority* of 320x200 DOS games need aspect ratio correction, there are indeed a few titles (quite a few of them ports of PAL Amiga games) that only look correct with square pixels. Here's a probably non-exhaustive list:
[...]

Boah, nobody cares. Back in the day we all had crappy screens we had to manually adjust and probably did it wrong, so the number of people who ever played it in the correct ratio is probably close to zero.

 

[Jasede]

I care a little bit, mainly because everything looks different/worse on emulators. I used to blame this on nostalgia but eventually learned that old SNES (and other) games take advantage of the way pixels blur on a CRT and it makes a big difference. Even the "scaling" emulators offer doesn't help replicate this blur thing at all.

 

[Jasede]

They never quite look right.

Note: in moving pictures and when sitting the correct distance away from the TV/CRT, you don't see the scanlines. Instead you see it as a high resolution, buttery smooth image.

 

[Strig]

Was thinking, sycophants are going to go out of their way to proclaim how good it looks just because of the backlash. And yes, the first reply is "That's beautiful!!"

And then there's this. I can't even tell if this guy's sarcastic or not. Poe's law and all that. But it's Twitter, so he's probably sincere.

 

[Scrounger]

These people don't drink coffee? Really don't want to be an octopus for this game. In any case I hope there will be a mouse control, muh coffee...

 

[Jenkem]

how many in-game references to the graphics haters and retro-fascists are ron going to throw into the game?

 

[ciox]

Was thinking, sycophants are going to go out of their way to proclaim how good it looks just because of the backlash. And yes, the first reply is "That's beautiful!!"

And then there's this. I can't even tell if this guy's sarcastic or not. Poe's law and all that. But it's Twitter, so he's probably sincere.

All this noise and the discussion of how they're handling the multiplatform aspects of the title hasn't even started yet.

Spoiler

1. uhh it's being made for PC first. yeah.
2. well it's actually made for switch and steam deck first. but the pc experience will NOT be affected.
3. we have cut UI/input features because they wouldn't work well on handheld kids' toys.

 

[Rincewind]

Boah, nobody cares. Back in the day we all had crappy screens we had to manually adjust and probably did it wrong, so the number of people who ever played it in the correct ratio is probably close to zero.

A *lot* of people care, including myself.

You're right in the sense that for those very few DOS games that require square pixels, nobody really bothered back in the day (or realised it was a problem). If you meant that, then we're in agreement.

But if you think aspect ratio correction is not needed for the *vast majority* of DOS games (virtually all games except those I posted that need square pixels), then I vehemently disagree, and I must tell you that you're sorely mistaken.

This is the best video on the subject if you want to educate yourself:

 

[Rincewind]

Most of the images in that SCUMMVM forum thread are broken, but stuff like Steel Sky will drive you crazy if you're comparing circles in-game. The scanned artwork and sketches support aspect correction.

Beneath a Steel Sky

BASS isn't square pixel.

How so? Developed by UK people for PAL Amigas primarily, no? They just didn't use the full 320x256 screen so 320x200 NTSC users would not get the gfx cut off, and probably they were considering the DOS port as well.

 

[Sordid MCA/Prosper Hybryd]

you need aspect-ratio correction for every single 320x200 DOS game ever released,

There are interesting exceptions however. For example Frontier - Elite 2 (1993).

I stand corrected: while the *vast majority* of 320x200 DOS games need aspect ratio correction, there are indeed a few titles (quite a few of them ports of PAL Amiga games) that only look correct with square pixels. Here's a probably non-exhaustive list:

• Afterlife
• Battle Chess Enhanced
• Beneath a Steel Sky
• Disney's The Jungle Book
• Disney's The Lion King
• Ecstatica II
• Elite I Plus
• Flight Unlimited
• Frontier - Elite II
• Hocus Pocus
• Jazz Jackrabbit
• Jazz Jackrabbit Holiday Hare 1994
• Jazz Jackrabbit Holiday Hare 1995
• Lemmings 3D
• Lure of the Temptress
• Master of Orion 2
• MAX Mechanized Assault & Exploration
• Overlord
• Prehistorik 1
• Scorched Earth
• Seek and Destroy
• System Shock
• Terminator 2 The Arcade Game
• The Incredible Machine 1
• The Incredible Machine 2
• Warlords II Deluxe
• Worms
• Z

Some of these are actually not 320x200. E.g. TIM 1/2, Lemmings 3D, Warlords II, and Master of Orion 2.

 

[Mary Sue Leigh]

Very surprising to me how little people claim to care about the visual presentations of the monkey island games. Maybe shallow, but to me that was half the reason I loved playing 1 and 2, and could never get into curse that was just too cartoony all in all.
The rich Caribbean setting with its exotic locations might in fact have appealed even more than the insane moon logic puzzles that I couldn't seem to figure out easily.
I even forced myself through the telltale games, and while I thought they were "just okay", I file them as just "telltale games", they weren't really monkey island games, since the early telltale adventure games were pretty much the same. Whether Sam und Max or MI, they had the same puzzles, jokes, and similar original characters. Nothing great but serviceable.
The presentation of Ron's new MI however turned me right off of it, just by the material I have seen so far.

 

[Rincewind]

you need aspect-ratio correction for every single 320x200 DOS game ever released,

There are interesting exceptions however. For example Frontier - Elite 2 (1993).

I stand corrected: while the *vast majority* of 320x200 DOS games need aspect ratio correction, there are indeed a few titles (quite a few of them ports of PAL Amiga games) that only look correct with square pixels. Here's a probably non-exhaustive list:

• Afterlife
• Battle Chess Enhanced
• Beneath a Steel Sky
• Disney's The Jungle Book
• Disney's The Lion King
• Ecstatica II
• Elite I Plus
• Flight Unlimited
• Frontier - Elite II
• Hocus Pocus
• Jazz Jackrabbit
• Jazz Jackrabbit Holiday Hare 1994
• Jazz Jackrabbit Holiday Hare 1995
• Lemmings 3D
• Lure of the Temptress
• Master of Orion 2
• MAX Mechanized Assault & Exploration
• Overlord
• Prehistorik 1
• Scorched Earth
• Seek and Destroy
• System Shock
• Terminator 2 The Arcade Game
• The Incredible Machine 1
• The Incredible Machine 2
• Warlords II Deluxe
• Worms
• Z

Some of these are actually not 320x200. E.g. TIM 1/2, Lemmings 3D, Warlords II, and Master of Orion 2.

You're right, and I haven't worded it carefully enough. Let me try again:

These are games that do not require pixel aspect ratio correction in DOSBox for the art to be displayed correctly (and are lower resolution than 640x480, which is square aspect ratio, or might support resolutions lower than 640x480). So effectively they assume square pixels, and therefore are displayed correctly on modern displays without AR correction in square pixel aspect ratio resolutions (basically all common resolutions upwards from 640x480).

I haven't personally verified all games on the list, btw, I got it from a fellow DOSBox dev (and he's pretty thorough).

 

[Rincewind]

This actually looks a little better than the previous screenshots.

 

[negator2vc]

This actually looks a little better than the previous screenshots.

why? that weird looking pier alone that completely "fills up" the scene is enough to destroy
one of the best looking scene of the original (after all it's quite obvious that the scene is there primary for nostalgia)
a scene that even the otherwise visualy crap special edition manage to keep intact
https://youtu.be/MPcL_eScS6I?t=202

and of course they had to change Scumm bar sign to something unreadable
(the usual changes for changes sake)

 

[Mary Sue Leigh]

Looks like it still says SCUMM BAR to me?
Unfortunately even if this looked slightly better (maybe?), I can't get over how horrible the animations are.

 

[Darkozric]

that weird looking pier alone that completely "fills up" the scene is enough to destroy
one of the best looking scene of the original

2022 and we've got a soulless tiny sea area without a trace of animation. But no little fascists, pixel art is old and the game needs to move "forward"!
I guess will have to go on holidays to live our own MI for a few days, even if it's a walking sim.

Monday is coming!

 

[jfrisby]

 

[Mary Sue Leigh]

Is Ron Gilbert on drugs

 

[RapineDel]

To me it's looking like movement is always on a straight line to make it more "controller" friendly.

Is their any footage at all of Guybrush walking off the beaten path?

 

[ADULF HITLOR FAN KLUB]

Is Ron Gilbert on drugs

Ron must be on PCP or something.