Community RPG Codex People's Awards: Best RPGs

[Trash]

Does our userbase reflect our high standards, however?

Trash has actual experience with physical Codex death-matches. Or at least, he almost had. I would surely be crushed under his Darklands-playing fists.

Or the manual.

 

[sea]

What is the point of such lists?

Hits. The Internet loves lists and any list is something that people just have to read, because they have a desire to endlessly debate which game is better and which one most deserves to be at what position.

Though, the "correct" way to do it is to split every game into a separate page so that readers have to see 10-20x the number of ads.

 

[Grunker]

Does our userbase reflect our high standards, however?

Good question, I suppose.

What is the point of such lists?

Hits.

Butthurt and debate. 6 pages within 3 hours. Editor's Stamp of Approval

 

[Themadcow]

People voted for these games because they liked them over older games

No, it was because they didn't play the older games. Whether or not that makes them "uneducated" is a matter for debate.

So how do guys like me, who played the older games, yet still voted for the games in this Top 10, fit in with your argument? Are we just exceptions to prove the rule? What's your basis for claiming that people who voted for Baldur's Gate haven't played the older games?

As far as I see it, I can point to actual posters who played older games yet voted for the newer ones. I'm not sure you can point to the people you're talking about; people who just played these games and never bothered with the older ones.

I guess neither one of us have any sort of basis for our claims, really, which is too bad.

Nail on the head there Grunker, the methodology doesn't support an outcome (either way) that says that X game is better than Y game because it doesn't contain the data that would tell us whether the voter has experience of titles to make a subjective judgement that one is 'better'.

Aha!

Well, then I'm right, and you're wrong

You guys made the claim that people here hadn't played the old games and were just voting for Baldur's Gate because that's what they'd played. I just said the possibility of them having played both and liking the latter more was just as possible.

If I wasn't more rounded as an individual I'd probably be crying with frustration right now. I'm off to do something more fruitful like bashing my head against a brick wall.

 

[Infinitron]

However I think we can assume safely that the top three is something of a holy trinity of rpg gaming here. Wonder if we'll ever see any movement in that part of the list

We have. BG2 defeated Arcanum.

 

[Jaesun]

I actually just did that poll on my own out of sheer curiosity. Since the last one I did forced you to only list 5 games as your top 5, that was fucking brutal. I was curious how such a list would turn out if given a chance to vote for your top 20.

 

[CrustyBot]

What is the point of such lists?

The following pages of butthurt.

Something about helping newfags or causing butthurt at BSN as well, but no one really believes that...

Grunker: I suppose there's no conclusive proof, but I suspect the popularity aspect is important. I mean, we talk about the top 10, but don't forget that we were given up to 20 choices. So it's not really a case where we choose 90s games over older ones. Trash is right and there's probably 4 or so which will always be at the top (F1/F2/Arc/PS:T) but from that point onward, I do believe that the higher profile of some games (i.e Icewind Dale) gives it an advantage over other, older games, which don't have it.

edit: 20 not 25, i r dumb

 

[Grunker]

I'm off to do something more fruitful like bashing my head against a brick wall.

sigh

However I think we can assume safely that the top three is something of a holy trinity of rpg gaming here. Wonder if we'll ever see any movement in that part of the list

We have. BG2 defeated Arcanum.

Indeed. It used to be Fallout, Planescape, Arcanum. Now it's Fallout, Planescape, Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate 2, Arcanum. I think the list before this one had Fallout, Planescape, Bloodlines, Arcanum, BG2. I do recall Bloodlines gaining territory at one point, at least.

What is the point of such lists?

The following pages of butthurt.

Something about helping newfags or causing butthurt at BSN as well, but no one really believes that...

Grunker: I suppose there's no conclusive proof, but I suspect the popularity aspect is important. I mean, we talk about the top 10, but don't forget that we were given up to 25 choices. So it's not really a case where we choose 90s games over older ones. Trash is right and there's probably 4 or so which will always be at the top (F1/F2/Arc/PS:T) but from that point onward, I do believe that the higher profile of some games (i.e Icewind Dale) gives it an advantage over other, older games, which don't have it.

I think this answers that:

The same logic you could use - more people have played Baldur's Gate and thus more people voted for it - I could use: "People who played the classics are more dedicated to the forums and thus more likely to vote, apparantly they agree with me that the current Top 10 list holds better games."

The truth is, we don't know, and any claim we make is purely based on our subjective notion of what the Codex is. I disagree that it's just a place for the Mainstream -10 years, and I think the standards we set for our content proves that.

 

[lophiaspis]

The list is, as one might expect, a travesty. Quest for Glory 1 and 4 should be in the top 10. New Vegas is not a PC game, and is also shit. Top 50 console RPGs, maybe. Icewind Dale? Get outta here.

 

[laclongquan]

Hehe, right after I lament the 3-page lack of fire Codex Dramaz happenz! Sure warm the cockles of my heart~

Aaaaaaanyway, to jump into the fray:

And there we went from having a nice conversation about games into sperger territory. Disagreeing with me all you want but if you're going to nitpick every sentence, misrepresent my words, cherry pick and try to use every logical fallacy you can find then we won't have much of a discussion here, Grunker. Everything I can say I already said in my first post here but I'll summarise my point as best as I can for you; the list is more indicative of the userbase of this site than as a defenitive guide on the best rpg's.

I will point out that the list was, is, and always will be subjectives based on the users surveyed at that particular period. You want a definitive list that is truly objective? Find a common and definitive definition of qualities for a RPG in the first place. AND THAT is an ongoing debate around here, but people get tired of it. So if you complain about the userbase, feel free. But remember that "youth these day~!" is a complaint of an old man every age. if you are not, oh well.
Second, the PC list. My votes dont have games before Fallout 1, IIRC. I just dont play games earlier than that. They dont sound attractive enough for me to brave the shitty graphics of that period.
BUT.
If you accuse me of graphic whorism, I will answer with a tittle "Unreal World". If I can tolerate its peculiarity and play it to this day, I dont think your accusation can stand on its own merit. Do you even know what Unreal Worlds' graphic is like?
Aaaaaanywho, back to the PC list. The inclusion of Icewind Dale into the rank bodes. I dont know ill or good, but it surely bodes.
Third, the console list. WHAT THE FUCK? Chronos Cross out of ranking? Even Final Fantasy 8? And I dont play half of the list.

 

[Infinitron]

The same logic you could use - more people have played Baldur's Gate and thus more people voted for it - I could use: "People who played the classics are more dedicated to the forums and thus more likely to vote, apparantly they agree with me that the current Top 10 list holds better games."

Yes, but which "logic" do you think is more likely?

Dude, bottom line - there's no way that a Top Ten List that includes Icewind Dale and excludes something like Betrayal at Krondor or Darklands is a good result.

 

[Machine]

New Vegas better ranked than JA2...

Top XYZ lists never fail to deliver comedy.

 

[Jaesun]

JA2 is an RPG?

 

[Gakkone]

No one is satisfied unless we do a separate poll for every RPG ever where people who've played it rate it on a scale of 1 to 10. Or hey, we could use this poll as a qualification round and only do it for the 50 or so games on it.

 

[evdk]

The list is, as one might expect, a travesty. Quest for Glory 1 and 4 should be in the top 10. New Vegas is not a PC game, and is also shit. Top 50 console RPGs, maybe. Icewind Dale? Get outta here.

I wanted to bitch that QfG has no right to be in any RPG top ten, but then I remembered there is already Deus Ex in this one, so sure, why not.

 

[Grunker]

New Vegas better ranked than JA2...

Top XYZ lists never fail to deliver comedy.

Dude: RPG Codex Top 10 Strategy Games of All Time...

 

[laclongquan]

JA2 is an RPG?

Because lately the requirement of a RPG lax enough that JA2 qualify as a RPGlite. What do you want? Character building? Team building? Quest? character interaction? JA2 got it all.

 

[Grunker]

there's no way that a Top Ten List that includes Icewind Dale and excludes something like Betrayal at Krondor or Darklands is a good result.

Seeing as I have played Betrayal, and it's not in my list, yet Icewind Dale is, well...

I was asked to list the games I enjoyed the most, 20 of them. Not the games I objectively think hold most merit. I enjoyed IWD more than BaK. But sure, we can agree IWD shouldn't be in a Top 10 of RPGs. I'm just not sure I see the same crimson clouds over the horizon that you do.

 

[felipepepe]

One thing to consider is how the late 90's-00's game are without a doubt the best of their time, while before there was so much fucking choice that votes split among their favorites.

Just look at the console voting for a more clear view; there are so many JRPGs that people like that after #6 the votes split completly... we had votes for 255 different games... 119 of them with only vote. It's as if each voter liked 2 games that no one else voted for! That doesn't mean there aren't good JRPGs besides the top 10, but that each of them pleases a different kind of player, and each person has his favorite.

The PC list is the same thing, while Fallout is almost konsensus with 189 votes, Desu Ex at #12 has less than half the votes... is not that people don't like older games, is that everyone likes a different one.

If we did a franchise voting, no doubt that M&M would score very highly, but it's hidden on the list due everyone voting for a different game of the series, same thing that happens with Pokémon on the console list.

 

[made]

I'm somewhat surprised that none of the Etrtian Odyssey games even made it into the top50 despite good word-of-mouth around here. Too niche?

 

[Snikt]

New Vegas I think deserves to be 1# on Most Buggy Games That Ever Managed To Get Released

Mission Mojave, which is a fan project to fix bugs in the game, has a record 27,000 vanilla fixes. I uninstalled that game after I was unable to even finish a simple quest without opening the console and using kill commands on every nearby NPC in the building to get around the bugs.

An absolute disgrace of a "game", how it even managed to get released is unfathomable.

 

[evdk]

I'm somewhat surprised that none of the Etrtian Odyssey games even made it into the top50 despite good word-of-mouth around here. Too niche?

Too difficult.

 

[MicoSelva]

Good article.
I wish I could give Brofists to everyone involved, but I limited myself to those, who posted on the first page of this thread, because too lazy.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

JA2 is an RPG?

Because lately the requirement of a RPG lax enough that JA2 qualify as a RPGlite. What do you want? Character building? Team building? Quest? character interaction? JA2 got it all.

 

[Themadcow]

Just look at the console voting for a more clear view; there are so many JRPGs that people like that after #6 the votes split completly... we had votes for 255 different games... 119 of them with only vote. It's as if each voter liked 2 games that no one else voted for! That doesn't mean there aren't good JRPGs besides the top 10, but that each of them pleases a different kind of player, and each person has his favorite.

I look at the console list and I see that one of the most acclaimed and best aged games of all time, Suikoden 2, doesn't even feature. The kicker with Suikoden II being that it was only released once (no PSN, no porting) and there are such a low volume of disks in circulation that 2nd hand copies trade for over $150 on ebay. On the other side of the coin, the mass produced and widely ported titles are there in abundance.