Codex Preview RPG Codex Report: Expeditions: Conquistador, Logic Artists and Kickstarter

[Stelcio]

Well I agree that some conclusions went way too far. But what does matter in the end is common opinion. And many people think now of LA as of not totally honest bunch of devs. That's hell of a bad press, especially considering kickstarter and that a falling tree makes more noise than a whole forest.


I know you think they're honest folks who just happened to make some mistakes and hopefully you're right, but it just doesn't matter who is right here.

 

[Drowed]

I disagree strongly, very strongly, with what you say here, but we've already been over that, so...

Well, one may agree or disagree. But just look at the reaction here on the site and everywere else, it is mostly negative. So, in no way it's an exaggeration to say that "their credibility is strongly impaired". Because, well, most people do not trust in anything that they say anymore. Whether that's fair or not, whether it is deserved or not, is another question entirely.

 

[Jaedar]

They also concealed the fact that they were implementing stuff from the stretch goals they didn't reach. Deceitful Danes, the whole lot of them!

 

[Grunker]

I disagree strongly, very strongly, with what you say here, but we've already been over that, so...

Well, one may agree or disagree. But just look at the reaction here on the site and everywere else, it is mostly negative. So, in no way it's an exaggeration to say that "their credibility is strongly impaired". Because, well, most people do not trust in anything that they say anymore. Whether that's fair or not, whether it is deserved or not, is another question entirely.

The reaction has no bearing on what is rational or not. Believing bitComposer demanded multiplayer and/or anything else is contrary to all evidence we have and thorough idiocy/conspiritard thinking.

But seriously, this has been discussed for 10 fucking pages. Let's leave it dead, shall we?

I know you think they're honest folks who just happened to make some mistakes and hopefully you're right, but it just doesn't matter who is right here.

Bullshit. Of course it matters. BUT WE JUST DISCUSSED THIS FOR 10 PAGES WHY KEEP DOING IT WE KNOW WHERE WE STAND GOD CHRIST SHIT TADPOLE FLOWER NIGGERLILY

 

[Stelcio]

Bullshit. Of course it matters.

Not regarding to their credibility. They fucked up (slightly) and so now they are probably fucked (more than slightly, actually to the point where their next kickstarter will have significantly lower chances of success).

The reaction has no bearing on what is rational or not. Believing bitComposer demanded multiplayer and/or anything else is contrary to all evidence we have and thorough idiocy/conspiritard thinking.

Actually I just cut my initial response to this. I'll just ask a question instead. Do you disagree that this whole situation impaired Logic Artists' credibility?

 

[DeepOcean]

All of this could be avoided if they asked the opinions of their backers before taking the decision to add multiplayer and delaying the game, if they had explained themselves and said:"We need to enter Steam but believe that our game isn't going to succeed on Steam Greenlight and we don't have connections with people on Valve so we need a publisher, if we contact a publisher to enter on Steam but don't harm the game in anyway, it's okay?

 

[almondblight]

Yeah. I think they also may have thought the delay was going to be a lot shorter. "They'll have to wait two to four more weeks, but we'll give them multiplayer to make up for it, and everything to the $30 and up backers. The game's going to be out soon enough, and the upshot is we'll get to be on Steam when it is released." It's certainly a tempting thought to someone who is nervous about the reception of the game.

Actually, I wonder if they signed a deal, thought it would get released earlier, than bitComposer delayed things for whatever reason:

Unfortunately some distribution complications have come up. We're honestly not sure how much we're supposed to talk about this, and I don't want to cast anybody as the villain here - nobody has done anything wrong, it's just that kind of situation where things turned out to be a little more complicated than we'd hoped, and we need a little extra time to get our ducks in a row.

Definitely makes it sound like something unexpected happened.

 

[tindrli]

FFS.. just release the damn thing!!!!

 

[Kosmonaut]

Eagerly waiting for another fuck-up or miscomunication or just plain shafting from these LogicDerpists. I just want to know what new excuse they are gonna use for the continuous delay.

Hey we had further complications with our "distributors" so we are going to delay the game even more. But as a compensation, we just added Facebook integration to our game.

Avonaeon: any news about the release of the game?

 

[tindrli]

well the one thing is certain.. never ever ever fuck with a release date.. personaly i wonder, what reaction would be if they told us that release would be like in dec 2013 and then release it in june or something

 

[Vault Dweller]

I disagree strongly, very strongly, with what you say here, but we've already been over that, so...

Well, one may agree or disagree. But just look at the reaction here on the site and everywere else, it is mostly negative. So, in no way it's an exaggeration to say that "their credibility is strongly impaired". Because, well, most people do not trust in anything that they say anymore. Whether that's fair or not, whether it is deserved or not, is another question entirely.

The reaction has no bearing on what is rational or not. Believing bitComposer demanded multiplayer and/or anything else is contrary to all evidence we have and thorough idiocy/conspiritard thinking.

What do you expect people to think in the absence of anything resembling a proper explanation?

They tell you face-to-face that the game will be released in a few days. No word of potential problems or bugs. The version that you and I played appeared to be very stable and had no issues, except for the exploration being weak and uneventful, but LA assured us that they fixed it on Feb 14.

In the last minute the game is delayed due to bitComposer's involvement. The nature of the involvement isn't explained. I mean, they want to publish it and get it on Steam? Great. Why the 2 months delay? If bC has connection, they should be able to get them on Steam right away, no? So, why didn't they? What conditions must be met first?

You have to admit, it's kind of hard to buy the official explanation. Sudden issues? Issues they didn't know about when they talked to you? Issues that we didn't see during playtesting? Under such circumstances, to what degree the official explanation can be trusted? Would they tell you that MP was requested by a publisher if that was the case? It would start a fucking shitstorm. It's much easier to believe that it was than to believe that they decided to add it out of the blue despite still having single-player issues to polish.

Overall though, as I said before, the exact reason hardly matters. What matters (to me, at least) is that KS is supposed to be about "fuck publishers, let's deal direct and be transparent" and what happened looks like "fuck direct (now that we got 80k) and transparency, let's deal with a publisher".

 

[Infinitron]

KS is supposed to be about "fuck publishers, let's deal direct and be transparent" and what happened looks like "fuck direct (now that we got 80k) and transparency, let's deal with a publisher".

When you make 3-4 million dollars you can tell the publishers to go fuck themselves. 80k, probably not so much.

 

[tindrli]

Overall though, as I said before, the exact reason hardly matters. What matters (to me, at least) is that KS is supposed to be about "fuck publishers, let's deal direct and be transparent" and what happened looks like "fuck direct (now that we got 80k) and transparency, let's deal with a publisher".

THIS!!!!!...

sad.. very sad...

 

[Grunker]

What do you expect people to think in the absence of anything resembling a proper explanation?

What I do. Wait for the product. Wait for the evidence.

Anyone who speculates wildly in the search of an explanation reminds me of an Area 51 tard. "It's secret so THERE MUST BE SOMETHING UP, RITE?!?" Take a look at the beginning of this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hdS3l1B_T9E

"THEY TOTALLY ADDED MULTIPLAYER BECAUSE OF bC - NOW YOU PROOVE THAT'S BULLSHIT GRUNKER!"

It says everything.

So yeah. I think it's out-this-world retarded to make up your own explanations for everything, and you're not going to convince me otherwise simply because Logic Artists can be criticized for other things (which they certainly can).

Them making mistakes in other departments does not excuse criticism leveled at them for entirely other ones. It explains why some retards do it, yes, but that doesn't make them any less retarded.

 

[tindrli]

aaaaaaand i repeat.. JUST RELEASE THE DAMN THING ALLREADY!!!!!

 

[Kz3r0]

It's much easier to believe that it was than to believe that they decided to add it out of the blue despite still having single-player issues to polish.

There is something that has not been asked yet tho, where come from the resources for working on MP?
Are they using Kickstarter funds for that?
And if they have some spare money of their own, or another source of revenue why they aren't using that money to improve single player?
Especially after asking for money on Kickstarter.

 

[Grunker]

I wrote a long ass reply but it got deleted. I'll have to illustrate its content instead:

 

[tindrli]

When you make 3-4 million dollars you can tell the publishers to go fuck themselves. 80k, probably not so much.

this is just greed

 

[Spectacle]

It seems like a lot of people here don't really understand that making money is pretty important if you want to keep your business running for more than 6 months.

 

[Vault Dweller]

KS is supposed to be about "fuck publishers, let's deal direct and be transparent" and what happened looks like "fuck direct (now that we got 80k) and transparency, let's deal with a publisher".

When you make 3-4 million dollars you can tell the publishers to go fuck themselves. 80k, probably not so much.

If that's indeed the case, they should have been clear about it from day one. "We need funds to finish the game and take it to a publisher", not "finish the game and release it to the backers the moment it's ready."

Not to mention that they had 3 distribution deals out of 4. They could and should have released the game as promised and then make any deal they want with bC and tack on anything they wanted.

 

[Vault Dweller]

It seems like a lot of people here don't really understand that making money is pretty important if you want to keep your business running for more than 6 months.

So is honoring agreements.

 

[Vault Dweller]

I wrote a long ass reply but it got deleted. I'll have to illustrate its content instead:

Chill, bro.

The way I see it, this discussion is mostly about KS. Or the ethics of KS, to be more specific. The game in question serves merely as a specific example illustrating some issues, and nobody is getting worked up over it.

 

[Monty]

Three things suddenly happen, days after LA confirmed they would meet the release deadline.

- unexplained delay
- new distributor agreement with unspecified details and requirements
- addition of multiplayer out of the blue

Is it really 'retarded' to think these 3 factors are linked? Grunker clearly thinks so, he's met the developers, shared Mountain Dew with them and clearly trusts them. Fair enough, if I had spent time with them maybe I would also have an opinion on how trustworthy their statements are.

But others have backed this project and have been fed a load of inconsistent and vague statements (detailed at length in this thread), to the point where we now find it difficult to believe anything they say.

We're not going to change each others minds so there's not much point to the debate really. Grunker doesn't mind the delay to the game he hasn't backed. Kickstarter backers want the game or a proper reason why they can't have it.

Let's hope they produce a good game as I don't see any successful kickstarters in their future.

 

[Vault Dweller]

What do you expect people to think in the absence of anything resembling a proper explanation?

What I do. Wait for the product. Wait for the evidence.

What evidence? There will never be any evidence. Hopefully, the game will be released within a month on Steam and that would be the end of it.

In the absence of evidence and timely explanation, most people would wonder what the fuck happened. It's human nature and has nothing to do with conspiracy theories.

Anyone who speculates wildly in the search of an explanation....

Nobody speculates wildly. Nobody claims that they know for sure what's going on or invent explanations. The pieces of the "puzzle" are on the table and different people arrange them in different ways, that's all.

"THEY TOTALLY ADDED MULTIPLAYER BECAUSE OF bC - NOW YOU PROOVE THAT'S BULLSHIT GRUNKER!"

It says everything.

It certainly is possible (not that I care one way or another). Did they tell you that they were adding multiplayer when you visited them? Why not? They planned a surprise?

 

[tindrli]

JUST RELEASE THE DAMN THING!!!!!!!!