Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Grimoire: Heralds of the Winged Exemplar

[Infinitron]

Both Burning Bridges and Felipe are extremely knowledgeable and have contributed greatly to this community (unlike you), not to mention that they have been around for far longer than you (and rest of your fellow right-wing edgelords with post-Gamergate registration dates) or myself.
Infinitron and BB are right, something is to be done about behavior on this forum if this community is to survive.

Maybe we'll start by banning you. Mynon using the time-honored shitposter tactic of inserting himself into drama to discredit the side he's pretending to argue for.

 

[Haba]

Do you really not see why a decade-long veteran of the Codex, who has become a respected contributor and invested more effort than anybody else in learning about and chronicling the CRPG genre, would be a bit upset about this bizarre circle jerk/flash mob of edgy nobodies who are accusing him of being a hack? Not just disagreeing with him, not arguing respectfully or even disrespectfully, but outright discounting his words? All in service of a whackjob like Cleve? When his review isn't even that negative? WTF is this? Burning Bridges is right, the newfags are getting out of hand.

Oldfags might have a few words to say as well, mind you.

But fuck if I will, it is Cleve after all. And I have no passion for blobbers. Still have invested 100+ hours in Grimoire.

 

[Mynon]

We'll start by banning you. Mynon using the time-honored shitposter tactic of inserting himself into drama to discredit the side he's pretending to argue for.

I am not pretending at anything. I do realize that I made transgressions against the rules of this community before, but it is not on me to decide if they are ban-worthy. If they are, I accept such judgment.

 

[Zep Zepo]

I also think that it's this belief that has prompted a review now as a finished game rather than a work in progress, and that's the only issue I have with the review. While Cleve is still working on it (and he clearly is) it should have been a first look not a final review, no matter whether the game is available to buy or not.

Why? No other developer had this treatment. No one looked at Mass Effect: Andromeda and went "the game have several bugs and animation issues, so we'll hold our review".

All of this is a Wizardry staple. Running into mobs of casters that murderise you in one turn with spellspam is part of the package. Being just as likely to run into said casters as into giant rats is part of the package as well.

Take Wiz 7 and the "greater wilds"/"brombadian bay" area in the southwest corner of the map - the encounter table for that one includes starter-zone-tier glow moths and vampire rooks, a little tougher glow/luna mothras and zoids, still a bit tougher vampire vultures and bantari, much tougher thraxes, and finally stuff like 5 mobs of 8 turbothraxes that all spit aoe acid or godzylli and rexx that stomp your balls for 400 damage and breathe fireballs.

It's a question of scale. You're mentioning a specific area - I'm talking about the entire world after you leave the super demo area.

From that point on I barely used my Cleric to heal during combat because it was useless - either the monster were so harmless that the damage wasn't deadly and I could just attack OR the monster was so deadly that it killed in one hit, making healing useless - better to attack and be sure I would kill it quickly.

Moreover, unlike Wizardry, these weren't actually powerful monsters we're talking about - many will die with a single melee attack. But they always kill with one hit. Look:

That's Olaf, a Lv 9 giant berserk you can recruit later in the game. He has a huge HP pool, very high stats and was wearing my best armor. But there wasn't even a damage roll - the attack just killed him instantly. Not a critical, not a special skill - that's the basic attack of Trog Warriors. That's the insta-kill crap I'm talking about, that SEVERAL enemies have.

In Wizardry there's a real sense of progression as you level up, you can go back and faceroll all those encounters that gave you trouble earlier on. That's one of the joys of games with no level scalling. But in Grimoire my party 30hs in was dying to flowers just like my party was after 80hs.

FelipePepe, manboons are not learning animals. Where are all your persist spells for this area? You should have 9 different orbs floating in the viewport and you should keep them refreshed, knowing this is a very dangerous area.

As for these troglodytes, are you aware there about three different ways to completely avoid combat with the heavier encounters here altogether?

Yes, if you charge around this area on Progress Quest punching buttons, these trogs will make hamburger out of you quickly. Those impaler spears are designed to kill newbs and Brazilians very quickly down here.

I don't think after 40 hours you should know this little about what you are doing. Grimoire is not an anime grinder. It takes brainpower to play. The insta-kill is a classic part of Wizardry and many other RPGs which you claim to be familiar with ... but I don't think you are. You are like a popamole in sheep's clothing, creeping about in the game going guize I'm totally hardcore wiz player ... but your amazement that your candy ass is getting waxed down here doesn't make any sense. This is a very dangerous area. You cannot popamole through it.

Try thinking a bit about all the options available in the game other than just charging around and crying mascara tears because your like totally maxed out giant got killed by a spear. Thrown and everything. FelipePepe, Grimoire is not for amateurs. If anything, what I meant by unbalanced was simple - there are exploits in the game that even enable people like you to win it. You're right. I need to fix those immediately because amateurs and millennial crybabies should not last ten seconds in the Saltwyrm Caves. The trogs are guarding one of the tablets down here and they have standing orders to kill Brazilians twice. The only way you should be going through this area is with persistent spells floating around like Armorplate, Magic Screen and Missile Screen ... ready to be jumped at any moment. Did you discover how to make the trog army stand aside and let you pass?

So, you come here...to shit on felipepepe...yet ban and delete his posts on Steam...

Big Butthurt Baby indeed. You could have done this "on your own forum" as you say...

Maybe they should ban you here from posting.

Zep--

 

[Bumvelcrow]

Infinitron and BB are right, something is to be done about behavior on this forum if this community is to survive.

Mynon, are you serious? This has been a bit of an unedifying shitstorm, but it's not the end of the world.

 

[Mynon]

Do you really not see why a decade-long veteran of the Codex, who has become a respected contributor and invested more effort than anybody else in learning about and chronicling the CRPG genre, would be a bit upset about this bizarre circle jerk/flash mob of edgy nobodies who are accusing him of being a hack? Not just disagreeing with him, not arguing respectfully or even disrespectfully, but outright discounting his words? All in service of a whackjob like Cleve? When his review isn't even that negative? WTF is this?

Not that different to some of the reception Roxor received for calling PoE 'mediocre' though, looking back

I rate this post "it is a mystery"...

 

[Cleveland Mark Blakemore]

What, hold your precious Codex review? We surely can't have that. I called your review good and fair, but apparently I didn't genuflect sufficiently in your direction. Why so butthurt? I foolishly thought you could put aside your personal animosity towards Cleve and provide a balanced commentary but now you're lurking around the comments picking fights we people who don't agree with you.

Do you really not see why a decade-long veteran of the Codex, who has become a respected contributor and invested more effort than anybody else in learning about and chronicling the CRPG genre, would be a bit upset about this bizarre circle jerk/flash mob of edgy nobodies who are accusing him of being a hack? Not just disagreeing with him, not arguing respectfully or even disrespectfully, but outright discounting his words? All in service of a whackjob like Cleve? When his review isn't even that negative? WTF is this? Burning Bridges is right, the newfags are getting out of hand.

Nobody cares about your cliques and sacred cows. If you find yourself agreeing with Burning Bridges, you should probably second guess yourself.

Both Burning Bridges and Felipe are extremely knowledgeable and have contributed greatly to this community (unlike you), not to mention that they have been around for far longer than you (and rest of your fellow right-wing edgelords with post-Gamergate registration dates) or myself.
Infinitron and BB are right, something is to be done about behavior on this forum if this community is to survive.

Seriously, if this is satire it is 10/10 excellent.

If it is serious, your label is well selected.

 

[Bocian]

a decade-long veteran of the Codex, who has become a respected contributor and invested more effort than anybody else
bizarre circle jerk/flash mob of edgy nobodies
in service of a whackjob like Cleve?
the newfags are getting out of hand.

Yeah, a veteran of the internet forum.
Voice of people who spent more time on writing posts should totally be valued more than those who appeared later, sure. Besides, they're accusing him of not knowing the features of the genre he's supposed to know, so that's something.

 

[Lambach]

Maybe we'll start by banning you. Mynon using the time-honored shitposter tactic of inserting himself into drama to discredit the side he's pretending to argue for.

Don't worry, nobody takes Mynon seriously. With 932 posts and 2,775 "Shit" ratings, I think most of the 'Dex agrees he's an actual piece of poo that crawled out of the toilet, killed its owner and somehow learned how to use a computer.

 

[Bohrain]

at least i lived to see a day of release

Are you really alive though?

 

[MicoSelva]

Thanks for the well-written and informative review, felipepepe.
But since some people are accusing you of missing some stuff (I blame no manual), blobber noobness and bias against the developer, I am also looking forward to the numerous counter-reviews that will do Grimoire justice and bring balance to the force Codex.

 

[Zeriel]

Do you really not see why a decade-long veteran of the Codex, who has become a respected contributor and invested more effort than anybody else in learning about and chronicling the CRPG genre, would be a bit upset about this bizarre circle jerk/flash mob of edgy nobodies who are accusing him of being a hack? Not just disagreeing with him, not arguing respectfully or even disrespectfully, but outright discounting his words? All in service of a whackjob like Cleve? When his review isn't even that negative? WTF is this? Burning Bridges is right, the newfags are getting out of hand.

"It's okay to make bad arguments, so long as you've been around for a while"

I actually like felipepepe quite a bit and he's irreplaceable for his work on the CRPG book, but that doesn't mean I'm going to overlook the fact that some of the criticisms in that review don't make much sense to me.

 

[tindrli]

at least i lived to see a day of release

Are you really alive though?

interesting. i was asking my self exact question this morning.m

 

[Roguey]

The Poseur is immunized against all dangers: one may call him a scoundrel, parasite, swindler, profiteer, it all runs off him like water off a raincoat. But call him a Poseur and you will be astonished at how he recoils, how injured he is, how he suddenly shrinks back: “I’ve been found out.”

Y'know it took me a while but reading this thing reminds me of Vault Dweller reminiscing about Star Trail.

Star Trail. It's a top 10 RPGs ever game.
http://www.abandonia.com/en/games/102/R ... Trail.html

When I was writing that dialogue article, I downloaded the game check to refresh my memory. My first thought was "well, it didn't age well, that's for sure". Then gameplay kicked in, the starting town came alive with text adventures. I barely had time to get out of the way of some charging knights and then my conjurer attracted some unwanted attention:

In a local taven I could pick where to sit (with other people or alone), talk to them or not. I left soon and went exploring the town, getting various responses from people (great variety of those sweet, pre-graphics whoredom era NPC portraits, btw). An old woman told me to fuck off, some drunk hit on a female party member, some guy complained about good for nothing people like us who disturb peace at night. Very atmospheric.

Then I went a-traveling. A message pops up informing me about some priestess who's fighting off some orcs nearby. I've decided to help her out because that's the kind of guy I'm and I've been led to believe by modern CRPGs that I'm a great fightar and nothing can possibly stand in my way. So, the map loads up and I see 5 orcs. "Only five?" I ask in disbelief? "WEAK!". That was the last thing I said. Orcs: 5, the Chosen One: 0.

http://www.irontowerstudio.com/forum/index.php?topic=2365.0

Overall, the system makes you truly feel that you’re traveling, that there is some distance between towns and that such journeys are long, hard, and challenging. I was attacked by orcs, bandits, and spiders, two of my party members got sick, losing stat points and combat abilities, and I was lucky enough to find the right herbs to heal them. Exhausted, hungry, and wounded, we have arrived to the town of Gashok and were greeted by a crossbow bolt…
...
Now, shortly after you leave the starting town, you see some orcs attacking a priestess. You’re offered a choice: to do a smart thing and pretend you didn’t see nothin’ or to be a hero. Being a hero will most likely get you killed. There are five orcs (two are veterans in heavy armor) and they can quickly chop you to pieces and once you start losing your men, you won’t last long. The reward is well worth it – two levels of experience, but you’ll have to earn it.

Grimoire has some of that lost magic. But some book-shilling, Gamasutra-blogging, Undertale-loving hipster poseur wouldn't know about that.

 

[Mynon]

Speaking of actual parodists, posts by "fans" like the above character are only doing damage to any argument if favor of this game...

 

[valcik]

Fine review, proving basically every impression regarding Grimoire I've gathered in megathreads to be true. Traces of tingling pain caused by 'thal banhammer on well respected butt of monocled felipe-san are almost non-existent, 10/10 would read again.

This part's not even true, you can right-click on the icon to bring up a context menu with all the actions.

This I can forgive, since you can't grok complete controls on first playthrough easily in such complex game.
Hey, did you know there's SHIFT+A keyboard shortcut attached to :TAKE ALL: button in Fallout 2 inventory? With manual, two decades passed since release, and kilobytes of plaintext guides spilled all over the net?

 

[cvv]

We'll start by banning you. Mynon using the time-honored shitposter tactic of inserting himself into drama to discredit the side he's pretending to argue for.

I am not pretending at anything. I do realize that I made transgressions against the rules of this community before, but it is not on me to decide if they are ban-worthy. If they are, I accept such judgment.

This. This is why SJWs are so loathsome. Bleh.

 

[luj1]

That guy was being such a drama queen on steam Cleve had to ban him permanently. He literally wouldn't shut up and was bitching about most irrelevant garbage like some SJW. No wonder that Infinitron, a slimeball jew shill, would choose the right person

 

[Lurker King]

Both Burning Bridges and Felipe are extremely knowledgeable and have contributed greatly to this community (unlike you).

Infinitron contributed greatly by posting the relevant updates and interviews about cRPGs in a timely manner, and keeping us informed. This includes not only known studios, but indies and new kickstarters. Codexers like to bash Infinitron, because he always tries to protect Obsidian and InXile from negative criticisms, but without him the news page would be abandoned. Shill or not shill, he adds a lot and is very efficient.

 

[luj1]

The perfect man for the job was felipepepe, who is both an accomplished reviewer and an RPG historian...

Please... That's fake news. Judging by how much of the review is bitching about accessibility (in a retro blobber), it's hard to believe his pedigree is anything but peasant-level.

Are you telling me an "RPG historian" and "accomplished reviewer" got rekt by a rustic interface?

Spoiler

 

[DavidBVal]

I have a question for the Guardians of the Essences of Incline in this thread.

Before playing Grimoire, I replayed M&MIII. However, I noticed something quite alarming.

Nowhere in about (estimate) 70 hours I have felt the combats are decided by pure randomness, nor loot is (for the most part) leather jackets, nor 90% of spells are useless, nor some party members are useless while others are capable to lock-paralyze all bosses. There's minotaurs that insta-kill, but you have to gain distance, become faster than them, use range spells, whatever tactic works (as opposed to lock them with a music instrument or reloading). I use a huge variety of spells of all three "schools" all the time, and there is teleportation/fast travel once you are high level enough. The rewards, both in XP and loot, are sometimes disappointing, but for the most part feel exciting.

It is as if... you know... as if it was balanced. As if someone had put effort into making it a fair and fun (albeit hard) challenge.

My question is, is M&MIII pure decline because of the above? Has this hipster indie poser of JVH been pretending all these years? Is it the secret prequel to Undertale?

This concerns me very much, I want my soul to remain pure. Thanks in advance.

 

[Snorkack]

DavidBVal came quite the long way from apologizing to Cleve for being wrongfully banned from steam discussions to sarcastically mocking Grimoire's balance and its fans :D

 

[Lurker King]

When it comes to mechanics, I believe we should design systems that work together to produce challenging gameplay content and a variety of tools players can use to overcome those challenges. If challenges can be easily circumvented by using one skeleton key tactic (whether it's reloading, a singularly overpowering item/ability, or something else), then the gameplay will get boring quickly.

I think gameplay is most enjoyable when there's a balance of frustration and triumph. Without frustration, triumph becomes cheap. Continuous frustration with minimal/infrequent triumph often feels like it isn't worth the effort. Every player has a different balance point for what they enjoy, but if the systems have easy "outs", it can make the challenges trivial.

Roguey, the problem is that Sawyer himself also included under the balance umbrella the doctrines that “every build must be equally useful”, “every skill must be useful against every type of enemy”, “every build preference must be viable (muscle wizards, etc)”, etc.. One could accept that the demand for balance is commendable when this means challenge and a well rounded combat system, but it is reprehensible when it involves the doctrines mentioned above. In fact, these notions of balance are ultimately inconsistent. This is probably one of the many reasons why Pillars’s combat is so broken and repetitive.

Notice that codexers will also use “balance” as synonymous for every unimaginative and reductionist thing they could find in Pillars, from unimaginative magic items to meaningless mechanics that sound vital (e.g., graze hit) but are implemented in such way that they are practically irrelevant in gameplay terms. It would not be an exaggeration to suggest that some of these unimaginative items resulted from an attempt to control the unbalance forces of the combat system, while the mechanical terms are attempts to improve mechanics, at least conceptually.

Nobody cares about balance until they care about balance. I.e., when the game is more or less difficult than they want it to be".

Sure, I agree; but on the other hand if a combat system is broken because it has too many spells, items or skills with different effects, you have the pleasure of testing different devastating combos, comparing them, etc. The G-spot is the perfect marriage between complexity in combat and challenge.

 

[Snorkack]

Felipepepe played for 80 hr straight without knowing that you can rmb the combat actions? Sounds painful, I'd have toned down combat to minimum as well in that case.
Pretty good review, although there are a few incorrect statements and complaining about non-issues.

 

[Lord Andre]

I have a question for the Guardians of the Essences of Incline in this thread.

Before playing Grimoire, I replayed M&MIII. However, I noticed something quite alarming.

Nowhere in about (estimate) 70 hours I have felt the combats are decided by pure randomness, nor loot is (for the most part) leather jackets, nor 90% of spells are useless, nor some party members are useless while others are capable to lock-paralyze all bosses. There's minotaurs that insta-kill, but you have to gain distance, become faster than them, use range spells, whatever tactic works (as opposed to lock them with a music instrument or reloading). I use a huge variety of spells of all three "schools" all the time, and there is teleportation/fast travel once you are high level enough. The rewards, both in XP and loot, are sometimes disappointing, but for the most part feel exciting.

It is as if... you know... as if it was balanced. As if someone had put effort into making it a fair and fun (albeit hard) challenge.

My question is, is M&MIII pure decline because of the above? Has this hipster indie poser of JVH been pretending all these years? Is it the secret prequel to Undertale?

This concerns me very much, I want my soul to remain pure. Thanks in advance.

The problem isn't that you don't have an argument, the problem is that it is greatly exaggerated.

For example, the first time I encountered a dragonfly I learned they can insta kill you but don't have that much life. Ever since then when I fight them I have a character stand by with a wand of missiles/fireballs ready to ensure a kill if my fighters didn't get the job done. All my chars have high speed naturally and they are distanced apart by 1-2 points to ensure the exact perfect order I want them to act in. And of course they all act before the monster unless they are casting spells. Wands are a perfect failsafe to put on the last chars acting to ensure a troublesome monster/monsters don't get to act at all.

I also never use a bard. There are ways to strategize and tactics to be found. This is the main point of contention. No one is disputing that certain things might need to be tweaked.