Review RPG Codex Review: Might & Magic X: Legacy

[cvv]

Truly if you don't like Might & Magic™ X: Legacy there is something very wrong with you

Yeah, if you don't like it Skyway-way.

 

[Turjan]

That's an interesting contrast between Might & Magic and Wizardry. I'm aware of the motorcycle/tricycle meme, and of course Wizardry's mechanics are more intricate and hardcore. That's why I place Crusaders of the Dark Savant as one of the paramount computer role-playing games. But to me, the two franchises are not so dissimilar, and I find them cast from the same mold. Kindred spirits. They are both on the same side of what is right, and shouldn't be opposed to each other. We know who the real enemy is.

The game style is similar, yes. What I was referring to was that, in the Wizardries, every battle is a drawn out, pretty tactical affair. The Might and Magic series has more trash mob filler combat. It's just a thing of personal preference. I don't like my whole game to consist of battles where I have to pay attention to every detail, I'm fine with trash mobs in between more challenging battles. I'm not a fan of stuff like Arnika Road.

And yes, Legacy has a lot going for it that appeals to people who have experienced the entire span of Might & Magic sagas.

Which it should, so all is fine. As I said, I only miss the free-roaming part.

 

[Broseph]

Arnika Road was easy. Never understood why it was so infamous.

 

[Turjan]

Arnika Road was easy. Never understood why it was so infamous.

Please, not another Arnika Road discussion with level planning and encounter avoidance. I should probably not have mentioned it. It's about the quality of the encounters in the whole game, more or less.

 

[Zetor]

What I was referring to was that, in the Wizardries, every battle is a drawn out, pretty tactical affair.

Not in my experience.

In practice, most encounters in W6-W7 are trivial, and could be handled by putting a paperweight on the enter button (which chooses the first melee option for fighters and the first dodge option for casters). In fact, by W7 midgame, your team of hybrids all turned into capable fighters, so doing this was actually not that far from your max damage potential; the enemies couldn't hurt your frontline if they all had high-end armor (or really low armor classes). Against some harder enemy types you'd cast the 'correct' group aoe spell [silence, blinding flash, sleep, a heavy AOE to eliminate a particularly dangerous group / heavy single-target spells to eliminate a particularly tough single enemy / a mass-kill spell like asphyxiate to kill all weak enemies immediately] in the first round, and proceed with the paperweight solution.

Of course this wasn't the case near the beginning of the games, and there were some areas that did require micromanagement of every combat action (munkharama comes to mind)... but those were a comparatively small portion of the entire content.

 

[Dorateen]

That's an interesting contrast between Might & Magic and Wizardry. I'm aware of the motorcycle/tricycle meme, and of course Wizardry's mechanics are more intricate and hardcore. That's why I place Crusaders of the Dark Savant as one of the paramount computer role-playing games. But to me, the two franchises are not so dissimilar, and I find them cast from the same mold. Kindred spirits. They are both on the same side of what is right, and shouldn't be opposed to each other. We know who the real enemy is.

The game style is similar, yes. What I was referring to was that, in the Wizardries, every battle is a drawn out, pretty tactical affair. The Might and Magic series has more trash mob filler combat. It's just a thing of personal preference. I don't like my whole game to consist of battles where I have to pay attention to every detail, I'm fine with trash mobs in between more challenging battles. I'm not a fan of stuff like Arnika Road.

Fair enough. I was responding to the notion that Wizardry fans make up some of the population dissatisfied with MMXL, when to me, they are two sides of the same coin. The people who should be aghast that a turn-based, grid-based, create your own party RPG was published in 2014, belong on another social network.

And I'm not too sure about those Ultima people...

 

[Lord Azlan]

Thanks for a long and detailed review. It took me a few goes to get to the end

My problem was I jumped straight to your "summary for idiots" at the bottom of the review.

Only completed Act 1 now and I have mixed feelings about the game.

In my view - the game is decent but not a "must-buy". Saying that - not many games in this genre around. For Codexians it might indeed be a must buy.

Your assessment of the game chime with my feelings - except one.

1. One of the best features in the new system is the introduction of the quickbar commands.

I like this, its very flexible and I note the quickbars commands can be different for each party member.

2. If there's one area where Limbic has tried to play on old fans' nostalgia, it's clearly with the sound effects.

I liked hearing my party members go off on one every now and again.

3. The inventory system is quite different from anything seen before.

I like having the shared system and also appreciated that the developers tried to be helpful by also including on that page what any party member had equipped - this saved me from having to click backwards and forwards all the time and made it easy to make comparisons between different equipment.

4. The game's real performance issue is with loading times.

Yep.

5. This does make levelling up something to look forward to even more than usual, and also puts more customisation into the player's
hands, especially with the way the new attribute system works.

Levelling felt a bit like a Diablo clone - distribute attributes and skills - works well as you say.

6. As before, putting enough points into a skill to reach a threshold value allows you to train a new tier, .... since your skill level (and therefore your character's proficiency in a particular role) is completely frozen until then, not just slowed down.

Yes. Where are those damn trainers. If there was no internet this could be frustrating.

7. Story and writing were never a strong point in M&M.

Can't say - don't read it. Seriously though - this lot could learn from recent production of WL2 and make story dialogue easier to read for older generation.

8. But as the (combat) system becomes more complex and the focus shifts more towards combat, flaws in it become harder to ignore. The combat system in MMXL is good overall, but it suffers from a number of flaws and design decisions that hinder the experience.

9. Some of these things don't even make combat more challenging, but just more boring. For instance, some enemies hit very hard and spells have expensive mana costs early on, but the game literally showers you with health and mana potions. This can effectively turn many encounters into an exercise in casting the same defensive spells over and over as you slowly whittle away an enemy's health, all the while chugging potion after potion.

10. The obvious solution would've been to simply reintroduce a positioning system.

I think I prefer the combat in Lords of Xulima - am I retarded? My puny mage was often killed at the beginning until I sent him to the gymn every level for a while. All that HP on a mage seems wasted.

11. Another very glaring example is stuns and paralysis; these are nasty status effects, much more so than in the NWC games. Not only do they put the target PC out of action until cured, but the stunned PC doesn't receive XP at the end of the battle, and his share doesn't get redistributed to the other party members (as it did in some of the old games when a party member died). That XP is lost forever.

12. Speaking of ambushes, these are another potentially good idea that gets rammed down your throat until you get sick and tired of it.

13. Unfortunately, if there's one area where MMXL disappoints as an M&M game, it's in its outdoor exploration.

14. The overworld design is exacerbated by the linearity of the main quest.

Combat not so good. Exploration feels more like Grimrock 2 rather than a M&M.

Dungeons - just shoddy - not impressed.

Decent game - not sure if better than LoX.

 

[Xorazm]

I love the game to tears mainly because it was the first I'd played in ages that reminded me how good RPGs could be, but I'd hardly say it was a must-buy. It's meaty, long and delivers that core experience, particularly if you played the Xeen games back in the day, but I'd stop short of saying it's exceptional. Explorations definitely opens up significantly once you've completed Act 1, loading times never get better, party banter might be something you have to turn off after a while, dungeons aren't really a strong point.

Having said that, the thing that I really love most in any RPG is when the game opens up a large world for me and lets me poke around at my own pace, with some zones that are my level and some that I have to hack through. Grimrock 2 kinda delivered that, but it felt more like a collection of puzzle-hubs than a facsimile of a living, breathing world. M&M-X delivered that experience of dangerous exploration probably better than, well, any game since the advent of the incline. If that matters to you as much as it does to me, then everything after Act 1 is going to be really fucking fun.

There's nothing I like more than wandering around in an open world and finding a mob that wrecks my shit. I run away, limping and bruised, but I know that I'm coming back and, for all the things that aren't perfect, that's something that M&M-X delivers really, really well.

 

[Broseph]

It's not an exceptional game, but it could have served as the primer for a really excellent sequel. It's too bad that it sold poorly, we may not ever see MMXI.

 

[Metro]

It's p.mediocre to be honest. Nowhere close to 'exceptional.' The dungeons are crap and uninteresting and it doesn't feel like a 'living breathing world' in the slightest with its cardboard npcs.

 

[Lord Azlan]

There's nothing I like more than wandering around in an open world and finding a mob that wrecks my shit. I run away, limping and bruised, but I know that I'm coming back and, for all the things that aren't perfect, that's something that M&M-X delivers really, really well.

Good point and noted already in Act 2 where I have come across some encounters that were way above by level - but it was interesting to see how my party coped before wiped out.

One thing I need to mention which is really stupid is that Master trainers can only do that and can't train you to expert level - is that stupid or retarded?

 

[cvv]

I love the game to tears mainly because it was the first I'd played in ages that reminded me how good RPGs could be, but I'd hardly say it was a must-buy. It's meaty, long and delivers that core experience, particularly if you played the Xeen games back in the day, but I'd stop short of saying it's exceptional. Explorations definitely opens up significantly once you've completed Act 1, loading times never get better, party banter might be something you have to turn off after a while, dungeons aren't really a strong point.

Having said that, the thing that I really love most in any RPG is when the game opens up a large world for me and lets me poke around at my own pace, with some zones that are my level and some that I have to hack through. Grimrock 2 kinda delivered that, but it felt more like a collection of puzzle-hubs than a facsimile of a living, breathing world. M&M-X delivered that experience of dangerous exploration probably better than, well, any game since the advent of the incline. If that matters to you as much as it does to me, then everything after Act 1 is going to be really fucking fun.

There's nothing I like more than wandering around in an open world and finding a mob that wrecks my shit. I run away, limping and bruised, but I know that I'm coming back and, for all the things that aren't perfect, that's something that M&M-X delivers really, really well.

 

[mondblut]

One thing I need to mention which is really stupid is that Master trainers can only do that and can't train you to expert level - is that stupid or retarded?

I wouldn't put it above "masters" to snub the would be students who "aren't yet worthy" of their attention. Typical guru snobbery. Spellcasting trainers not teaching spells themselves is more stupid and retarded, and potentially crippling to gameplay (i.e. I reached a primordial GM skill level in the final dungeon, could leave Karthal to train it, but couldn't study the GM spell itself afterwards because it is only available back in Karthal, and you get thrown into prison when you reenter it, starting the addon content).

 

[Xorazm]

There's nothing I like more than wandering around in an open world and finding a mob that wrecks my shit. I run away, limping and bruised, but I know that I'm coming back and, for all the things that aren't perfect, that's something that M&M-X delivers really, really well.

Good point and noted already in Act 2 where I have come across some encounters that were way above by level - but it was interesting to see how my party coped before wiped out.

One thing I need to mention which is really stupid is that Master trainers can only do that and can't train you to expert level - is that stupid or retarded?

Yeah I'm not really a huge fan of the trainer system in general, but that's a feature that's sort of been baked into Might and Magic games by now. Old hands would riot if you took it out.

You run a tricky gauntlet when you're making a game in a series which is beloved, but only by a small group of die hards. They are generally the people you've got to please first and foremost, but that often means sticking with design decisions that are by now kind of fussy anachronisms. At best the trainer system keeps you motivated to keep exploring, and I certainly took it upon myself to go on a scorched earth deathmarch through the entirety of the Western forest to reach a certain trainer. They're going for a kind of loot-system-via-experience, where instead of finding an awesome new halberd you're growing in power by developing your abilities by someone you just found. If you can think about ti that way it's a little less annoying but it's never something I ever quite adjusted to.

 

[welly321]

Its so sad that we wont see a Might and Magic 11. I read your review and I actually wrote a similar review on steam, where I felt like this was an amazing game but was kind of held back by budget and was a bit to small. I thought if MMX sold well, we could really see an amazing MM11. Its very depressing they decided to pull the plug on MMX and you can't even buy it anymore. It was way to good of a game to have that happen.

 

[Zed]

Its so sad that we wont see a Might and Magic 11. I read your review and I actually wrote a similar review on steam, where I felt like this was an amazing game but was kind of held back by budget and was a bit to small. I thought if MMX sold well, we could really see an amazing MM11. Its very depressing they decided to pull the plug on MMX and you can't even buy it anymore. It was way to good of a game to have that happen.

Yeah I'll have fond memories of the game. A bit janky, unbalanced, and so on. But heaps of charm. I'd like to replay it in the future some time.

 

[Zeriel]

There's nothing I like more than wandering around in an open world and finding a mob that wrecks my shit. I run away, limping and bruised, but I know that I'm coming back and, for all the things that aren't perfect, that's something that M&M-X delivers really, really well.

Good point and noted already in Act 2 where I have come across some encounters that were way above by level - but it was interesting to see how my party coped before wiped out.

One thing I need to mention which is really stupid is that Master trainers can only do that and can't train you to expert level - is that stupid or retarded?

Yeah I'm not really a huge fan of the trainer system in general, but that's a feature that's sort of been baked into Might and Magic games by now. Old hands would riot if you took it out.

You run a tricky gauntlet when you're making a game in a series which is beloved, but only by a small group of die hards. They are generally the people you've got to please first and foremost, but that often means sticking with design decisions that are by now kind of fussy anachronisms. At best the trainer system keeps you motivated to keep exploring, and I certainly took it upon myself to go on a scorched earth deathmarch through the entirety of the Western forest to reach a certain trainer. They're going for a kind of loot-system-via-experience, where instead of finding an awesome new halberd you're growing in power by developing your abilities by someone you just found. If you can think about ti that way it's a little less annoying but it's never something I ever quite adjusted to.

Eh, that's debatable. There were reviews from the usual popamole suspects in the mainstream outlets specifically saying they thought it was a kludgy, oldschool mess... but when they played it and gave it a honest chance, they got addicted to it despite thinking it was not their jam. I honestly think Might and Magic as a series has some of the most tried and tested mechanics that it's a pity haven't been adopted by other games.

If there's something that's dumb about the trainers in MMXL it isn't the trainers per se, it's the artificial chapter-gating in the beginning where there are trainers in the rest of the world you can't reach yet, and some of them are early skill trainers. That, specifically, is not a Might & Magic thing.

 

[agris]

good review Sceptic

 

[Darth Roxor]

i hate when these threads are rezzed because they remind me this shit game exists

 

[Grauken]

Great game all around

 

[Zeriel]

i hate when these threads are rezzed because they remind me this shit game exists

The duality of saying this and then liking Shadowrun Returns. Truly, autism is inexplicable at times.

 

[agris]

i hate when these threads are rezzed because they remind me this shit game exists

you really hated it eh?

the aesthetics are really poor. its got that dime a dozen wow look, but when i played it 9 years or so ago i was taken by the mechanics. maybe it helps that i don't have strong opinions about the M&M games, is it just shit in comparison to something like Xeen?

 

[Lady Error]

Enjoyable game, but too short. Certainly much better than M&M 7, 8 or 9.

 

[Blaine]

i hate when these threads are rezzed because they remind me this shit game exists

The duality of saying this and then liking Shadowrun Returns. Truly, autism is inexplicable at times.

Roxor is a study in duality, yes.

On the one side: inclined and refined tastes and sensibilities.

On the other: My nigga, what the literal and actual fuck are you thinking?

In this case he is inclined and correct, because the game that this thread is about is trash on every level, and liking it in any way is absolutely inexcusable.

 

[Zeriel]

It's really funny to see how time has hardened the kneejerk opinions. Back in the day it was just "yeah it's not perfect", now its "it has no redeeming qualities at all, I prefer My Time At Portia to it"