Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Pathfinder Kingmaker

[oldmanpaco]

Even boring trash fights?

They're trash fights. They're not difficult and don't take long. Run in kill everything move on to the harder fights.
What's the problem?

If they are easy enough to just let your go auto attack, what's the point of them? Why not remove a bunch of them and replace them with a smaller selection of hand crafted more challenging encounters?

Do you enjoy just watching your characters kill stuff without having to actually do anything?

The point of trash mobs is to slowly erode your resources. In games like deadfire that don't have resource management they are pointless but here they serve a purpose.

The worst trash fights were typically the random encounters on the road but you could skip them after a while.

 

[Tacgnol]

Even boring trash fights?

They're trash fights. They're not difficult and don't take long. Run in kill everything move on to the harder fights.
What's the problem?

If they are easy enough to just let your go auto attack, what's the point of them? Why not remove a bunch of them and replace them with a smaller selection of hand crafted more challenging encounters?

Do you enjoy just watching your characters kill stuff without having to actually do anything?

The point of trash mobs is to slowly erode your resources. In games like deadfire that don't have resource management they are pointless but here they serve a purpose.

The worst trash fights were typically the random encounters on the road but you could skip them after a while.

Most Paizo APs do that quite successfully without throwing trash mobs at you. Usually a few "medium" encounters which are quite challenging and will use some resources (but not overly long for a decent group) and then a tough encounter.

Knights of the Chalice is another good example, Pierre is pretty sparing with trash fights.

 

[GloomFrost]

Ok what the hell?? Its a mostly positive review that ends with "i never want to play it again.....". If you don't want to play a big crpg for the second time despite all the new choices you can make, builds for your character or different companions then this game is absolutely mediocre. How can you possibly call it a "rough diamond" then?

 

[Pink Eye]

Nice review!

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

Ok what the hell?? Its a mostly positive review that ends with "i never want to play it again.....". If you don't want to play a big crpg for the second time despite all the new choices you can make, builds for your character or different companions then this game is absolutely mediocre. How can you possibly call it a "rough diamond" then?

In the end, Roguey succumbed to peer pressure from the autists and didn't have the huevos rancheros to join the Porky - Gregz camp.

 

[Zer0wing]

Too short for a review. Codex staff complains about difficulty. Doesn't even finish the game. This is not the kind of codex review I used to read...

 

[Tigranes]

Ok what the hell?? Its a mostly positive review that ends with "i never want to play it again.....". If you don't want to play a big crpg for the second time despite all the new choices you can make, builds for your character or different companions then this game is absolutely mediocre. How can you possibly call it a "rough diamond" then?

In my experience, people focus on one sentence in your last paragraph like it is the most important comment in the entire review

 

[The Jester]

I want to read a review written by Desiderius, someone who has played Kingmaker for hundreds of hours and knows the various components of the game like the lines on the palm of his hand.
A more in-depth, analytical review, It is quite clear here that the writer didn't enjoy the game as a whole, but in the end, in order to not swim in the opposite direction of the Codex, he came to a completely opposite conclusion in comparison with his previous opinions in the same review.

 

[Zer0wing]

In my experience, people focus on one sentence in your last paragraph like it is the most important comment in the entire review

Because it's the conclusion paragraph? Writer with such big postcount should know how to form a paragraph better, actual conslusion of the text above. Especially when he was chosen to be the face of rpg codex.

 

[PorkyThePaladin]

A game of Shitmaker's fecenity ought to be reviewed by someone like Darth Roxor, someone who can properly shit on it for many pages.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Good to see a review on this finally completed for the Codex. Thanks Roguey

 

[The Jester]

A game of Shitmaker's fecenity ought to be reviewed by someone like Darth Roxor, someone who can properly shit on it for many pages.

Isn't that the dude who gave Deadfire a thumbs up?

 

[LannTheStupid]

I want to read a review written by Desiderius

Can we make some cwordfunding for that?

 

[Terra]

About time.

 

[Zayne]

Other than that, the only reason to engage with it is to bring your kingdom stats up in case you end up slacking on the kingdom-threatening quests and start taking penalties that will eventually result in a game over.

The only reason to engage in kingdom management is getting those Masterpiece Artifacts from your royal artisans

 

[jungl]

Owlcat could of designed the game with traditional beastiary with 15-20 point builds but instead went with 25 point builds. +3-5 magic items everywhere. Now due to this stat bloat every fight needs prebuffs up the ass.

 

[Roguey]

Ok what the hell?? Its a mostly positive review that ends with "i never want to play it again.....". If you don't want to play a big crpg for the second time despite all the new choices you can make, builds for your character or different companions then this game is absolutely mediocre. How can you possibly call it a "rough diamond" then?

My review is in some ways an echo of VD's Dragon Age: Origins review https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=195

I'd say that the decision to fill the game with generic combat was THE worst DA design decision, because it drowns truly memorable fights in an ocean of combat filler and makes replaying the game and making different choices - an undeniable strength of the game - so much harder. When I started playing the game I kept making mental notes about my next character's choices and admiring all the possibilities, but by the time I finished the game the combat price to try different non-combat things was way too much for me.
...
As one member of this fine establishment said:

"Really it seems to boil down to this: Dragon Age has undeniable flaws, some glaring, some less-so. To some, the truly brilliant moments easily outshine those flaws. To others, the brilliant moments aren't brilliant enough, or don't happen often enough, so the flaws stand-out more and bring the entire experience down. I think both perspectives are perfectly legitimate, and, like so many other things, really boil down to personal preference. And really, the "undeniable flaws with brilliant moments/features/etc." describes pretty much every great RPG I've ever played."

I think that it's a good way to sum up the game. Dragon Age has flaws, and if you focus on them, you'll miss a pretty good role-playing game. It's a Bioware game, which means that it has a certain set of features that Bioware has developed into a trademark design over the last decade. However, Bioware has managed to improve and evolve that design significantly, keeping the strong story-focus, while loading in a wide range of player choices and paths, which makes it the best Bioware RPG and one of the best role-playing games in years despite the flaws.

Too short for a review. Codex staff complains about difficulty. Doesn't even finish the game. This is not the kind of codex review I used to read...

4300 word review is "too short," playing 112 hours and seeing a conclusion is "not finished"

A game of Shitmaker's fecenity ought to be reviewed by someone like Darth Roxor, someone who can properly shit on it for many pages.

Roxor wasn't interested in playing it, which is why we've gone nearly two years without one. Codex priorities: Pillars of Eternity gets no fewer than five in two years, Kingmaker gets one.

The only reason to engage in kingdom management is getting those Masterpiece Artifacts from your royal artisans

I didn't get any of them because two ended with "Do you want to deliberately harm your artisan based on hearsay or kill the person they've likely already wronged?" and the guy making the big suit of armor didn't finish it before my chance to enter the endgame unlocked, and I wasn't going to wait around for it. Didn't even wait around to get my reward for taking care of the final ancient curse battle.

 

[NJClaw]

I didn't get any of them because two ended with "Do you want to deliberately harm your artisan based on hearsay or kill the person they've likely already wronged?"

With very few exceptions, Artisans' quests are an insult to human intelligence and dignity. At best, they are dumb fetch quests; at worst, they force you to make very radical decisions without a proper context and without appropriate consequences.

 

[FreeKaner]

A fair review, though I also found there are way too many trash fights, that the attrition actually mattered in this game made me less annoyed by them as redundant. I assume having more casting oriented-parties could make them particularly bad but for me it felt different than just randomly placed trash encounters in other games simply because you have to account for your resources.

That there is no "core" ruleset is indeed weird, though I found the game does get easier as you start to synergise your party's feats and start getting appropriate teamwork feats on "normal" stats. Unfortunately these games always have reverse difficulty curve where the first few levels have most relative stat difficulty because of absolute number boosts exactly when you are are least equipped to deal with while later on the encounters become too easy when AI can no longer deal with player's ability to optimise their party. I played PoE on POTD because you do get more options in abilities and items during early levels there so you can better manage extra stats enemies have then later it is decent enough to balance out the AI, but in Kingmaker it feels very extreme in first 4-5 levels when you have very little options then you start unlocking very powerful teamwork feats, abilities to specialise your characters and more powerful spells that AI can't use as well then it feels a lot more easier to warrant stat boosts. Kingmaker in particular because of Pathfinder ruleset also has extreme statbloat too so upturning the enemy stats for difficulty makes that even more obvious, I do wish at least boss encounters were better designed instead.

When will there be a game that makes these difficulty increases relative instead of slapping absolute numbers to stats.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

Its too short, like she said :/

 

[Pink Eye]

>A low magic setting this is not; you'll be swimming in piles of magic loot.
Yeah. That's one of my biggest criticisms with the game. You get so much loot that it ends up hurting the difficulty. Its why they had to overcompensate by making every enemy stronger than its ruleset equivalent. However, after playing the alpha demo for Wrath of the Righteous, I think they've gotten better at it. Instead of making enemies walking stat sticks, they've improved the AI and increased the amount of enemies you can face.

>scarcity isn't a big deal after a while
That's another problem of the game. You get flooded with too much scrolls, wands, and resources.

>There are some pathfinding issues during combat in the more cramped areas
It's true. But I micromanage my units. So if they end up running in circles instead of going in the direction that they should be going. I pause and tell them where to go.

>There are also attacks of opportunity, so you can't zip around the battlefield without consequence,
Yup. Which makes kiting super difficult unless you prebuff yourself with expeditious retreat or haste.

>People don't want animated menus that get in the way of what they want to do every single time
Hehe. I one hundred percent agree.

>but it's my understanding that this setting doesn't make the best decisions; like it or not, managing the kingdom yourself is an intended part of the experience.
Not to mention you also lose access to end game loot. So yeah. Its recommended you don't put it on automatic.

>the portrait artist has a big problem with drawing feet correctly
What! I think he did a good job with the monk portrait! See:

Spoiler

>Another minus is that spell effects are the glowy, flashy type which makes characters difficult to comprehend during combat.
I had no problems with it. Unless there were a billion spell effects blowing up the screen, which is rare, you should have be able to see whats going. You can also pause to assess the situation.

>My favorite track of his is Skylark, which plays during pivotal moments with your party members.
Did you also like the Lantern King's theme songs? He has four separate themes dedicated to each phase. He has four phases, so four themes. No other boss has that. He's by far my favorite boss. Here's the theme songs:

Spoiler

Here's what the fight looks like if you're interested. I did a youtube video featuring his fight too! Here.

>All I'll say is that the recurring themes involve curses, solving mysteries, and the past catching up to other characters.
You forgot pranks! The story is also about pranks! Magical world ending pranks!

>I hope you like combat because Kingmaker has a ton of it. Too much in fact
I disagree. The amount of combat is awesome sauce.

>There are a handful of quests without combat at all, which is another welcome relief. The most memorable of these involve throwing a party for a sad companion, participating in some other-worldly debates, and competing in a series of contests at a festival.
Did you sing the goblin song? It occurs at chapter 3 during the season of bloom. It's pretty neat. Here's what I am talking about:

Spoiler

>I never want to play it again even though I'd normally want to try a different build and make different choices.
It's a super long game, I don't blame you.

Hey Roguey have you tried out the DLC Varnhold's Lot? Its short and features a fun dungeon. You start at level 5 too. There also isn't as many combat encounters compared to the main game.

 

[Pink Eye]

A fair review, though I also found there are way too many trash fights, that the attrition actually mattered in this game made me less annoyed by them as redundant. I assume having more casting oriented-parties could make them particularly bad but for me it felt different than just randomly placed trash encounters in other games simply because you have to account for your resources.

That there is no "core" ruleset is indeed weird, though I found the game does get easier as you start to synergise your party's feats and start getting appropriate teamwork feats on "normal" stats. Unfortunately these games always have reverse difficulty curve where the first few levels have most relative stat difficulty because of absolute number boosts exactly when you are are least equipped to deal with while later on the encounters become too easy when AI can no longer deal with player's ability to optimise their party. I played PoE on POTD because you do get more options in abilities and items during early levels there so you can better manage extra stats enemies have then later it is decent enough to balance out the AI, but in Kingmaker it feels very extreme in first 4-5 levels when you have very little options then you start unlocking very powerful teamwork feats, abilities to specialise your characters and more powerful spells that AI can't use as well then it feels a lot more easier to warrant stat boosts. Kingmaker in particular because of Pathfinder ruleset also has extreme statbloat too so upturning the enemy stats for difficulty makes that even more obvious, I do wish at least boss encounters were better designed instead.

When will there be a game that makes these difficulty increases relative instead of slapping absolute numbers to stats.

Play Knights of the Chalice 2. I think the developer did a good job of designing encounters. There are no such thing as trash encounters in that game. Each encounter is hard as balls. Plus the AI is super smart and makes use of its abilities.

 

[Whisper]

Limiting resting just made melee/ranged physical dps parties better than magical dps parties.

If you can use just 1 buff per combat and rely on weapons you need to rest less than when you do damage via spells.


So it is not so good choice. You just fuck up mage parties for no reason.

 

[Gargaune]

I overall have a Neutral Positive™ opinion concerning this Neutral Positive™ review. I guess the "never want to play it again" at the end got me a little confused, a rather harsh pronouncement seeing as otherwise you seem to have liked it.

I saw the ending slides. I wouldn't even know about the existence of a bonus chapter if not for metaknowledge.

It's a valid ending so yes, you completed the game, you don't necessarily need to play that alternate final chapter to review it, but if you still have the game installed, it's worth giving it a go to see the final fight with the villain behind the villain. You shake those massive debuffs very quickly by clearing a succession of relatively small encounters and then you move on to the final dungeon at full strength, which also has the benefit of being the most visually spectacular part of the game.

 

[LannTheStupid]

Hehe. I one hundred percent agree.

I have never got tired of the starting animation. For me it is a deep breath before amazing experience that lies ahead. Like raising the curtain. At this moment I usually have my last thoughts of what I am going to do, where my party is, and what I will see in this game session.

To each his own, I guess.