Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

You know what you, Westerners, say about "assume"?

That it makes an ass out of you?

Maybe if you didn't personally identify with some buggy tranny game, you wouldn't care what my assumptions were.

Translation: "I picked the difficulty that is too much for me." Moving on...

As I said, it's not about it being too difficult, it's about it being tedious. And I've got a lot of people clicking agree under my post. This isn't just me saying this.

I appreciated most of the 'difficult' fights (really not that hard, even on core). It's just that I want either fewer trash mobs or faster trash mobs to get through.

If you like trash mobs, good for you. But I don't, and that's my opinion, not my assumption.

And it's not like this is the only problem with the game either. I would be 100% willing to put up with poorly designed combat if the writing were bearable, if the ruleset implementation weren't bloated and buggy.

I ASSuME, that playing games from Owlcat is not your job. If so, why are you doing it?

I'm not playing it. That's my point.

Unless you love its degenerate, fan-fiction tier writing, and/or enjoy the idea of munchkining your way through dozens of boring trash mobs to get to said writing, there's no reason for you to play it.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

@Non-Edgy Gamer have you tried to

Given that I beat every fight I encountered, I already 'got gud'.

The ones who may want to git gud are the devs, since they have to deal with this buggy pos that they made. I do not.

The forces of decline all assembled in one place, this topic.

And they demand:
- short dialogues or just plain sentences
- voice acting
- cinematics
- easy gaming, a challenge is too much to endure
- short games (because their girlfriend's boyfriend has no time for it).

What's next? Microtransactions?

Protip: when you have to strawman this hard, you've probably lost the argument already.

I demand: good writing; gameplay that's challenging, but not boring; and that you fix the bugs before I pay you a dime.

3 things that Kickstarter cucks have convinced themselves don't matter.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

I am a spreadsheet strelets. I made a spreadsheet to distribute the buffs instead of using mods that are not from Nexus.

Why should I not use spreadsheets for builds?

lmfao. I thought spreadsheet builds were a meme.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

If fights on higher difficulties are "drawn out" for you, then you're doing it wrong.

It's precisely that ridiculous stat bloat on enemies that forces you to end fights ASAP, so that you provide as little opportunity as possible for the enemy to counter-attack. Unlike in Kingmaker, even a superbly built uber-tank won't last forever under direct fire from multiple high-level enemies, so you're incentivized to wrap up battles quickly. On my Unfair playthroughs, it was extremely rare for a fight against trash mobs to last for more than 2 Turns after the first Chapter.

Oh wow. Scintillating gameplay. I can't wait to pay $60 for spreadsheet munchkining and two-turn combat so that I can read some tranny's longwinded backstory.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

the fight during the first act at the inn was a fucking slog in turn-based mode holy fucking shit. i absolutely hated (and still do!) the campaign system almost as much as i hated the equivalent system in kingmaker and put that shit just above causal (fuck you) so i could build warps and not have to mess with it too much. whoever came up with that system needs an ass-reaming with a cactus

At least it was a fight that had meaning though.

But even there, why am I being forced to defend the tranny's orc wife? I do not care about xir or its green gorilla. I actively want them both to die - something that can't happen until late game.

 

[Lambach]

Oh wow. Scintillating gameplay. I can't wait to pay $60 for spreadsheet munchkining and two-turn combat so that I can read some tranny's longwinded backstory.

The game is primarily a build-porn power fantasy. It was deliberately designed that way. That's its main job and it does it (fairly) well. If that's not your cup of tea, that's all well and good, but WotR is a prime example of "it's good for what it is".

But even there, why am I being forced to defend the tranny's orc wife?

You're not defending the Orc, you're defending your current base of operations. And as to "why?", well, it's because it's a video-game that has your character follow a predetermined main story plot (with variations), just like probably 99% of cRPGs out there.

 

[LannTheStupid]

As I said, it's not about it being too difficult, it's about it being tedious. And I've got a lot of people clicking agree under my post. This isn't just me saying this.

Because it has already been said in this thread who those people are and why they agree with you. Those are people who want to play Diablo 4. Or, if they are poor, Path of Exile.

Owlcat Games do not do Diablo. They make good old school isometric RPGs.

 

[Crescent Hawk]

I always try not to shit too much on owlcat honestly. I mean its fucking pathfinder. They did what they could.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

I always try not to shit too much on owlcat honestly. I mean its fucking pathfinder. They did what they could.

Yeah, but they deliberately chose this campaign and made it even more faggoty. They also didn't have to give us so many classes if half of them were going to be broken on release.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Because it has already been said in this thread who those people are and why they agree with you.

>people agree with you because they already agree with you!
Great argument.

 

[Roguey]

I too would prefer that the challenge in the game is more about smarter enemy AI and better encounter design rather than just stat bloat, but the vast majority of devs nowadays seem incapable of the former and instead just go with the latter by default. Can't really single out WotR for that one.

On multiple occasions it's noted that the vast majority of demons and the people who join them are incredibly stupid, so it'd be inappropriate for them to use clever tactics against you. They're a threat because of their numbers and abilities.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

The game is primarily a build-porn power fantasy. It was deliberately designed that way. That's its main job and it does it (fairly) well. If that's not your cup of tea, that's all well and good, but WotR is a prime example of "it's good for what it is".

Literally a good for what it is argument, which is basically an admission the game is decline.

Frankly, no. It's not good for what it is. It's not a good powergame larp because of bugs, poor combat design, a lack of player freedom and crappy characters.

I really don't care about power fantasies if the world I'm trying to save/take over is trash, the characters are all annoying, and the idea of demonstrating my 'power' is wading through trash mobs. If you want that, why not just minmax in NWN2 OC? Because it sucks, that's why.

Power fantasies aren't about numbers, they're about meaningful actions in a world you want to feel powerful in. And even if you think the opposite and want to play turn-based Vampire Survivors, then at least fix the bugs and make the combat interesting.

You're not defending the Orc, you're defending your current base of operations.

Why is my current base in Sodom? Why can't I just leave?

It'd be like a vatnik that's sitting in Ukraine and defending Zelenskyy just because that's what the story demands.

And as to "why?", well, it's because it's a video-game that has your character follow a predetermined main story plot (with variations), just like probably 99% of cRPGs out there.

Cop out. It's because the devs (and Amber Scott) suck at writing.

 

[Lambach]

On multiple occasions it's noted that the vast majority of demons and the people who join them are incredibly stupid, so it'd be inappropriate for them to use clever tactics against you. They're a threat because of their numbers and abilities.

The problem with that argument is that there are Demons and other entities with INT scores of over 20 or even 30 and they aren't all that smarter than the dumb Cultist mooks.

Power fantasies aren't about numbers, they're about meaningful actions in a world you want to feel powerful in.

As a Lich, you challenge the Goddess of Death herself (universally regarded as the eldest and most powerful Deity in that Universe's Pantheon) and even fight and kill her #1 direct representative on the Material Plane. As an Aeon, you literally travel through time and rewrite history, altering major events. As an Angel, you can kill a Demon Lord right in his very own layer of the Abyss and can even burn the whole thing down, destroying it utterly and then become the General of the entire Celestial Army. Etc.

It's not only the gameplay that's supposed to provide a masturbatory power-fantasy experience, the narrative does it as well. And even though a solid of majority of cRPGs out there are also power fantasies to a degree (your character often ends up being a super badass that other mere mortals swoon over), I can't think of many off the top of my head that do it to the degree that WotR does. The closest is perhaps MotB, with its Evil ending, where you end up becoming a creature that snacks on the souls of the very Gods themselves, but that's only shown in the ending slides and is not represented in the game itself (unlike WotR).

Why is my current base in Sodom? Why can't I just fucking leave?

Because otherwise there is no plot for you to follow? Until video-games start implementing AI Dungeon Masters that can create stories on the fly based on your decisions, we're stuck following more-or-less linear predetermined plots in our vidya.

Cop out. It's because the devs (and the Amber Scott) suck at writing.

OK, let's assume you're the one writing WotR. How would you work your way into your character being made the Leader of the Crusade if your character abandoned the last piece of the city not occupied by Demons and left some of the Queen's most loyal servants to get gangraped by Cultists and Demons?

The game's main story is about the Fifth Crusade against the Worldwound. If you leave your base at that time, the Crusade doesn't materialize and the game has no plot.

"Why do I care about that annoying brat Imoen and some crazy Wizard? Why can't I just return to Baldur's Gate and chill instead of having to find my way into Spellhold?"

 

[Roguey]

The problem with that argument is that there are Demons and other entities with INT scores of over 20 or even 30 and they aren't all that smarter than the dumb Cultist mooks.

They're casting spells, aren't they?

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Because otherwise there is no plot for you to follow?

Because it's poor writing, you mean.

What if you don't need to side with the tranny? What if you can betray, depose or just murder them in the first act? What if there are bigger faction plays that can be made that don't involve being some gay orc's lapdog?

Gosh, that sounds like something that's actually interesting. Better avoid it and stick in another dozen trash mobs instead.

As a Lich, you challenge the Goddess of Death herself blahblah

Who cares? Why do I care about being the god of death in an utterly gay and boring world? To destroy it? I could just not play the game and save myself the trouble.

It's not only the gameplay that's supposed to provide a masturbatory power-fantasy experience, the narrative does it as well.

No, again, I don't care about being the king of a shithole that I don't even like. The worldbuilding is absolute ass in this game, so none of it matters to me.

OK, let's assume you're the one writing WotR. How would you work your way into your character being made the Leader of the Crusade if your character abandoned the last piece of the city not occupied by Demons and left some of the Queen's most loyal servants to get gangraped by Cultists and Demons?

Assuming that we have to lead a Crusade at all. Assuming we can't join one of the invading factions early on or a neutral faction that seeks to play both sides against each other.

And as for the Queen's most loyal servants, one of their group betrayed the city at the start of the game iirc, and the tranny and the orc were too stupid to notice a demon invasion that was happening right under their noses. They're utter failures at their jobs and the Queen would be an absolute retard to miss them, let alone to keep them on her payroll after such a massive screwup.

"Why do I care about that annoying brat Imoen and some crazy Wizard? Why can't I just return to Baldur's Gate and chill instead of having to find my way into Spellhold?"

Oof. Ruined your own argument.

BG2 offers multiple reasons to go to Spellhold: to save Imoen, to take revenge on Irenicus, to use Irenicus' knowledge to gain power, to stop whatever evil he's planning and keep him from murdering anyone else. It's actually bothers to consider player motivations, and the dreams, while foreshadowing, also help to direct the player to choose from one of these motives.

And you're not forced to do any of these. You can just run around and do sidequests until you're bored or you run out of things to do. You can just let the two of them rot for 20 years if you want. There's no hard timer. You aren't stuck in Athkatla until you do.

It's the exact opposite of Wrath.

 

[Lambach]

They're casting spells, aren't they?

And those Spells are often a very sub-optimal choice for the current situation. Baphomet, for example, often acts really stupid for one of the smartest and most cunning Demon Lords in the Abyss by wasting his Actions on casting a Spell that does ~20 AoE damage to the Party. Or those genius-level intellect Devas you can summon with that book who always spend their first Action after being summoned on casting Holy Aura even though they already have that buff applied to them by another Deva.

 

[Stavrophore]

Non Edgy Gamer just don't fancy fighting, sweating and dying for uninteresting, goofy and poorly built gay world, it's ok. the game is just not for you.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Non Edgy Gamer just don't fancy fighting, sweating and dying for uninteresting, goofy and poorly built gay world, it's ok. the game is just not for you.

This is my point, yes.

I was initially encouraged by a Kickerstarter victim's assurances that it was good for what it is, that the tranny didn't play that important a role etc., so I wanted to give it a shot.

But no, there is no reason to give the game a chance unless you're a pure numbers autismo who doesn't mind modder-tier gameplay, and either loves LGBT or can completely shut it out and pretend the story doesn't exist.

 

[Lambach]

Because it's poor writing, you mean.

What if you don't need to side with the tranny? What if you can betray, depose or just murder them in the first act? What if there are bigger faction plays that can be made that don't involve being some gay orc's lapdog?

Because that will no longer lead to the start of the Fifth Crusade, which is what the game's main story is about. Yeah, the writing is often crap, but what you're saying here has nothing to do with that.

That's like saying "Why can't I betray the organics and join Saren to work with him on bringing back the Reapers?". Because the writers decided that the main plot is about stopping the Reapers and are therefore not allowing you to deviate from that path. It's just a really silly argument.

Who cares? Why do I care about being the god of death in an utterly gay and boring world? To destroy it? I could just not play the game and save myself the trouble.

You didn't provide a counter-argument, this has nothing to do with the topic of the discussion.

It's a power fantasy within that world, probably one of the most extreme ones out of any cRPGs. You not liking the world is a completely different matter entirely.

They're utter failures at their jobs and the Queen would be an absolute retard to miss them, let alone to keep them on her payroll after such a massive screwup.

Yes, the Queen is indeed a retard. It's an actual point the game makes later on. Don't tell me you finished the game without catching that.

Oof. Ruined your own argument.

BG2 offers multiple reasons to go to Spellhold: to save Imoen, to take revenge on Irenicus, to use Irenicus' knowledge to gain power.

Yeah, and lets say my character thinks Imoen is annoying and is glad to be rid of her, is too afraid of Irenicus to face him and just wants to survive, go home and forget about the whole ordeal.

Terrible writing, not letting me completely ignore the whole main plot of the game. 0/10

And you're not forced to do any of these. You can just run around and do sidequests until you're bored or you run out of things to do.

"You can just ignore the main storyline of the game and stop playing it after you're done with all the side Quests". Great argument.

 

[Lambach]

Non Edgy Gamer just don't fancy fighting, sweating and dying for uninteresting, goofy and poorly built gay world, it's ok. the game is just not for you.

That's not what he was saying, tho. "The game sucks because I don't like the pozzed world-building and don't care about any of the characters" is one thing and a perfectly valid sentiment, but "The game doesn't work as a power fantasy because I personally don't like the gay world and its troon inhabitants" is just dumb and makes no sense.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

Because that will no longer lead to the start of the Fifth Crusade,

It will if you write that.

Why can't they start it without you? Are they just going to let the demons invade? Can there not be some other faggot with superpowers that helps out? I mean, you had however many options. Who's to say someone didn't pick one of those that you didn't?

You didn't provide a counter-argument, this has nothing to do with the topic of the discussion.

Autistic response. I simply don't give a shit and both you and the game failed to provide a reason why I should.

Yes, the Queen is indeed a retard.

Great argument.

Don't tell me you finished the game without catching that.

Are you slow? I stopped playing the game. I've said this repeatedly. Why would I waste time on a game I hate?

Yeah, and lets say my character thinks Imoen is annoying and is glad to be rid of her, is too afraid of Irenicus to face him and just wants to survive, go home and forget about the whole ordeal.

Well, a) you have no home in Baldur's Gate and the intro to the game tells you this. Your lineage was suspect and you left, remember? And b) if you have a stronghold, you can do this. You are free to larp a coward who doesn't care until the end of time, as I said.

"You can just ignore the main storyline of the game and stop playing it after you're done with all the side Quests". Great argument.

This is literally what you're asking for above. Why is it a bad argument when it predicted your idiotic goalpost shift before you wrote it?

 

[Heroic Liberator]

Autistic response

Oh the irony.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

That's not what he was saying, tho.

It is what I'm saying. I already said it was.

"The game sucks because I don't like the pozzed world-building and don't care about any of the characters" is one thing and a perfectly valid sentiment, but "The game doesn't work as a power fantasy because I personally don't like the gay world and its troon inhabitants" is just dumb and makes no sense.

Makes no sense to an autist, maybe. I already said that there's a way you can enjoy it, provided your can ignore the entire main story, the bugs, the poor design choices and the characters, but that's not something I can do.

 

[Desiderius]

even a superbly built uber-tank won't last forever under direct fire from multiple high-level enemies

The stats aren't bloated, they're on a longer (1-100ish instead of the familiar 1-40) scale to allow for greater granularity. The granularity makes room for a wider variety of spells and abilities.

Once you've mastered all those spells and abilities you can even tank Unfair:



Which is where the faceroll comes in, because once you can do that your can also wipe out the screen in a turn or two even without Yosharian's I Win Button mod. You can use that for rocket tag if you want but I find it more fun to build for resiliency and minimal reloads, which transforms fights from a drag into a pleasurable romp if I've planned correctly and don't fuck something up.

But I'm old so I often don't and I often do so I can also sympathize with the sloggers. A decent amount less could be more.

 

[Lambach]

It will if you write that.

Why can't they start it without you? Are they just going to let the demons invade? Can there not be some other faggot with superpowers that helps out? I mean, you had however many options. Who's to say someone didn't pick one of those that you didn't?

I don't even disagree with you all that much about the writing sucking. It has its moments, but it's overall quite meh.

But holy shit, you give the dumbest reason for it. "The writing sucks because the main story doesn't go the way I personally want it to". So incredibly stupid. The writers wanted to tell a story about your character, a seemingly ordinary mortal that eventually becomes pretty much a demigod, leading the Fifth Crusade. What's next, KotOR 1 has shitty writing because you have to play as Revan and you have to inevitably fight Malak at the end? I can't believe the writers didn't include the option for you to hook up with him and make him your boyfriend instead, then take on the Republic together like in the good old days. Fucking hack writers, not letting you completely re-write the story they wanted to tell on the fly.

Autistic response. I simply don't give a shit and both you and the game failed to provide a reason why I should.

I'm not trying to make you like the game, I'm just calling out the dumb shit you post.

Well, a) you have no home in Baldur's Gate and the intro to the game tells you this. And b) if you have a stronghold, you can do this. You are free to larp a coward who doesn't care until the end of time, as I said.

"You are free to just not play the game"

300 IQ Pro-gamer moment.