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Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous

Roguey

Codex Staff
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Kinda difficult to gauge whether the game is balanced well if you don't play on Core Rules difficulty, anything lower is suspicious and anything higher is only for Pope Amole to record dumb videos about
Core rules inflates enemy stats beyond Pathfinder rules, same as the previous game. It's balanced for people really knowledgeable about the systems. They even include bold red text telling you not to choose it if you're unfamiliar with it and a warning box asking you if you're absolutely sure if you actually click on it. Normal and Daring are the normie-gamer settings, casual and story are for the "I am really bad at games/just here for the story" people.
 

Humanophage

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Dec 20, 2005
Messages
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It's a good game ruined by shit writing.

no it isnt

feature bloat - strongholds, kingdom management, card games, HoMM army battles, its a mess. Game wants to be everything and constantly interupts core RPG gameplay of adventuring. Just bad design. Same like the first game

class bloat - so you have a ranger, then a ranger class without animal companion, or a paladin without laying on hands, etc. Any lazy bum can make classes this way. This is fake depth.

stat bloat - hilarious campaign, +5 longswords in barrels on the street, giant demons attaking towns and cutting heads of dragons. Thats why I called it "HotU for peasants" but ofcourse tranny Roguey doesn't know what I meant.

annoying mandatory companions - staple of political neo RPGs

SJW pozz - another staple

So no, its a very average game AT BEST. At worst its dogshit. Certainly wouldnt even be touched if we were in a true RPG renaissance

So yeah its possible this review is just to hype people up for Rogue Trader. Staff is known for shilling and riding dicks of developers, like that Pillars "cult gem retrospective" lmao.
Out of curiosity, what are the better options for non-writing aspects? The other big IE-like games like Tyranny and PoE have trash-tier combat. NWN1 is not strategic. Underrail is great, but not squad-based. Fallout is like a simpler Underrail (excluding its non-combat/non-build aspects). Ditto for Age of Decadence, with somewhat worse combat than Underrail. ATOM RPG is nice but combat and builds are relatively simple. Avernum and Geneforge are good, but also simpler. IWD1 and IWD2 are simpler and even more railroaded versions of P:K. As much as I like BG1 and BG2, the builds are much more simplistic there. You basically just keep pressing level up. Battle Brothers are nice, but the combat is dragged out and the abilities are a bit basic. Arcanum and P:T have terrible combat. D:OS2 has awful itemisation. Wizardry is a different genre and not tactically very interesting anyway. Jagged Alliance 2 is a fair alternative, but not the best game for builds. KOTC1 is good but too streamlined and puzzle-like.

KOTC2 is a genuinely good alternative - although it's more like a combat engine than an RPG. ToEE is a good alternative if you manage to fix it. Dungeon Rats are also somewhat of an alternative, although from a different angle, and the builds are less diverse although it is compensated by tighter encounters. I guess you could fit in Nu-X-Com: Long War, but we're veering too far from the genre.

So what are some RPGs or RPG-like games with a good complexity of builds, squad-based combat, decent encounter difficulty, and preferably not too bare-bones outside that?

Kinda difficult to gauge whether the game is balanced well if you don't play on Core Rules difficulty, anything lower is suspicious and anything higher is only for Pope Amole to record dumb videos about
Every area is nothing but overtuned trash mobs. Over and over, for a story and characters I can't even stand.
Hard seems to be good for a first run if you're experienced with combat RPGs. Don't you want some challenge from an RPG? I don't see what's overtuned with them, encounters usually last just a few rounds. It's about the same difficulty as KOTC or AoD.
 
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Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath
Or you can just set it to one level and then forget it.
Then that would solve nothing, since they're all the same relative difficulty. That's what I don't like about it.

I liked the difficult fights that had some meaning, but I didn't like the drawn out trash mobs. Why are you not understanding this?
This is a "user doesn't fully comprehend the system" problem. Expert powerbuilders can go through hard and unfair like a hot knife through butter.
No, it's a Roguey doesn't fully comprehend what I'm writing problem.

I'm sure the spreadsheet samurais can minmax wonders, but that's not the issue I have with it, so quit strawmanning.
They're drawn out because you suck. Git gud.

I'm no spreadsheet Samurai, never have been. All it takes is simply reading and using your spells and abilities. Doesn't hurt not to get taken in by the online memes.

I've been owning the powergheymers since a year into P:K.
 

LannTheStupid

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Pathfinder: Wrath
I am a spreadsheet strelets. I made a spreadsheet to distribute the buffs instead of using mods that are not from Nexus.

Why should I not use spreadsheets for builds?
 

ga♥

Arcane
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Joined
Feb 3, 2017
Messages
7,604
The forces of decline all assembled in one place, this topic.

And they demand:
- short dialogues or just plain sentences
- voice acting
- cinematics
- easy gaming, a challenge is too much to endure
- short games (because their girlfriend's boyfriend has no time for it).

What's next? Microtransactions?
 

Crescent Hawk

Cipher
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
642
Hideously ugly art
retarded/generic nuD&D setting
shitbad writing plus extra western cringe
feature bloat ruleset

Completely irredeemable garbage that should never have been made, decline of Codex is total.

You do have a point about art, But considering actual art from Golarion is even worse, that is a criticism I will not level at Owlcat. Outside the silly low poly models, the art is honestly almost quite classy.
 

Desiderius

Found your egg, Robinett, you sneaky bastard
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Insert Title Here Pathfinder: Wrath

Dr1f7

Scholar
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Jan 25, 2022
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1,037
appreciate the brevity of this review compared to others but even so, just saying "this game sucks donkey dick" would be comprehensive enough.
 

Humanophage

Arcane
Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
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So what are some RPGs or RPG-like games with a good complexity of builds, squad-based combat, decent encounter difficulty, and preferably not too bare-bones outside that?

My sweet summer child:


How is PoE squad-based? What next, ESO PvP and Crossout?

I played it a fair amount some time ago, and while the complexity of builds is good, it offers little in the way of tactical encounters. I played Grim Dawn more recently and it has very mind-numbing gameplay except for build-planning.
 

Mortmal

Arcane
Joined
Jun 15, 2009
Messages
9,180
So what are some RPGs or RPG-like games with a good complexity of builds, squad-based combat, decent encounter difficulty, and preferably not too bare-bones outside that?
There's really few , if you go d&d syle , there's kotc2 you already mentioned and solasta, both are quite barebone outside combat, nothing better than those besides the top 10 classics, but thats like 20 years+ ago now. You could include some jrpgs and stuff like troubleshooters, it does have everything.Eventually baldurs gate 3, non ironically, even lacking many classes, which will turn out the best of them.
It still doesnt make wotr a good roleplaying game, there's too little competition , no one bother anymore to spend the money required to do a really great crpg . For good reasons , as a grognard game would not be profitable.
 

LannTheStupid

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Pathfinder: Wrath
The forces of decline all assembled in one place, this topic.

And they demand:
- short dialogues or just plain sentences
- voice acting
- cinematics
- easy gaming, a challenge is too much to endure
- short games (because their girlfriend's boyfriend has no time for it).

What's next? Microtransactions?
We usually do not agree with each other — basically, about everything — but it seems you are absolutely correct here. When people are comparing Diablo-clones to isometric role playing games, the case is lost.
 

Stavrophore

Most trustworthy slavic man
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don't identify with EU-NPC land
Strap Yourselves In
Yeah, a typical sign of a bad writer is the fact that they feel that their readers HAVE TO be explained what is happening in the world. It reveals that they've realized that their ideas are so weak that simply showing isn't enough.

This is made even worse by the complete inability to be concise. Every phrase or word that that can be cut should be cut. That is the first thing I was taught in a high school literature lesson. Once you've cut the fat, then you tighten the sentences, usually with multiple iterations. The end result is something that resembles the way that an actual human thinks and speaks.

There's no clear answer, a high school lesson answer might be a cookie cutter for things set in this world, biographies, real world novels, thrillers, crime books, but when you are put in completely distant fantasy setting, with customers who have no idea about the pathfinder series, you need some exposition, it's virtually inescapable. You can't just show everything through narrative, actions or the worldbuilding, because the game would be way too costly and require way more effort, something that can be prevented with just few words of exposition, instead of building a custom quest, scene of a humungous battleship destroyed across the desert of grazing tribes.
 

Humanophage

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Messages
5,046
Yeah, a typical sign of a bad writer is the fact that they feel that their readers HAVE TO be explained what is happening in the world. It reveals that they've realized that their ideas are so weak that simply showing isn't enough.

This is made even worse by the complete inability to be concise. Every phrase or word that that can be cut should be cut. That is the first thing I was taught in a high school literature lesson. Once you've cut the fat, then you tighten the sentences, usually with multiple iterations. The end result is something that resembles the way that an actual human thinks and speaks.

There's no clear answer, a high school lesson answer might be a cookie cutter for things set in this world, biographies, real world novels, thrillers, crime books, but when you are put in completely distant fantasy setting, with customers who have no idea about the pathfinder series, you need some exposition, it's virtually inescapable. You can't just show everything through narrative, actions or the worldbuilding, because the game would be way too costly and require way more effort, something that can be prevented with just few words of exposition, instead of building a custom quest, scene of a humungous battleship destroyed across the desert of grazing tribes.
I agree that there's too much focus on "show, don't tell". It's true for fiction books or films, but it is not true for games, which can incorporate things like encyclopaedias that don't have to be woven into the narrative. If anything, the attempt to incorporate all that lore into the dialogues ("show! show!") instead of simply having a civilopedia is what produces these unrealistic walls of text.
 

luj1

You're all shills
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The forces of decline all assembled in one place, this topic.

And they demand:
- short dialogues or just plain sentences
- voice acting
- cinematics
- easy gaming, a challenge is too much to endure
- short games (because their girlfriend's boyfriend has no time for it).

What's next? Microtransactions?

the truth
 

Stavrophore

Most trustworthy slavic man
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Vatnik
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Messages
12,769
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don't identify with EU-NPC land
Strap Yourselves In
I agree that there's too much focus on "show, don't tell"
Actually what i said is the opposite. Exposition is often overused over narrative or worldbuilding means to explain the world or actions in said world. Granted, exposition through too much of cutscenes/small movies[hello death stranding] can be as annoying as overuse of text.
 

Lambach

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Belgrade, Removekebabland
I liked the difficult fights that had some meaning, but I didn't like the drawn out trash mobs. Why are you not understanding this?

If fights on higher difficulties are "drawn out" for you, then you're doing it wrong.

It's precisely that ridiculous stat bloat on enemies that forces you to end fights ASAP, so that you provide as little opportunity as possible for the enemy to counter-attack. Unlike in Kingmaker, even a superbly built uber-tank won't last forever under direct fire from multiple high-level enemies, so you're incentivized to wrap up battles quickly. On my Unfair playthroughs, it was extremely rare for a fight against trash mobs to last for more than 2 Turns after the first Chapter.
 

Stavrophore

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On my Unfair playthroughs, it was extremely rare for a fight against trash mobs to last for more than 2 Turns after the first Chapter.

So we are fine now with "nuking the pod" system notoriously used in xcom 2 in rpg games? This just shows the game difficulty tuning rely on stat padding, similar thing happens in underrail, or other games where initative is highly prized for end game content.
 

Humanophage

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I agree that there's too much focus on "show, don't tell"
Actually what i said is the opposite. Exposition is often overused over narrative or worldbuilding means to explain the world or actions in said world. Granted, exposition through too much of cutscenes/small movies[hello death stranding] can be as annoying as overuse of text.
I am referring to this: "There's no clear answer, a high school lesson answer might be a cookie cutter for things set in this world, biographies, real world novels, thrillers, crime books, but when you are put in completely distant fantasy setting, with customers who have no idea about the pathfinder series, you need some exposition, it's virtually inescapable. You can't just show everything through narrative, actions or the worldbuilding, because the game would be way too costly and require way more effort, something that can be prevented with just few words of exposition, instead of building a custom quest, scene of a humungous battleship destroyed across the desert of grazing tribes."

But they do try to show because of that maxim. Just make an article in the encyclopaedia or a hyperlink and stop sprinkling hints all over the dialogues.

"Don't show, tell in a specially designated place."
 

vitellus

the irascible
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the fight during the first act at the inn was a fucking slog in turn-based mode holy fucking shit. i absolutely hated (and still do!) the campaign system almost as much as i hated the equivalent system in kingmaker and put that shit just above causal (fuck you) so i could build warps and not have to mess with it too much. whoever came up with that system needs an ass-reaming with a cactus
 

LannTheStupid

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Pathfinder: Wrath
On my Unfair playthroughs, it was extremely rare for a fight against trash mobs to last for more than 2 Turns after the first Chapter.

So we are fine now with "nuking the pod" system notoriously used in xcom 2 in rpg games? This just shows the game difficulty tuning rely on stat padding, similar thing happens in underrail, or other games where initative is highly prized for end game content.
And this is bad, why?

To be able to nuke the pod in XCOM-2, the player needs to assemble the proper team, keep the research ahead of the curve, and do correct scouting without revealing himself prematurely. This is fun and cool for a tactical squad simulator.

To be able to nuke the enemies in Kingmaker or WotR, the player needs to assemble the proper team, know how spells and other game mechanics work, and apply them properly. This is fun and cool for an isometric RPG.

"Don't show, tell in a specially designated place."
While I agree with this in general, a link to the Encyclopedia in Seelah's speech when the party finds the Radiance is too Tyranny for me. Let her say it explicitly.
 

Lambach

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So we are fine now with "nuking the pod" system notoriously used in xcom 2 in rpg games? This just shows the game difficulty tuning rely on stat padding, similar thing happens in underrail, or other games where initative is highly prized for end game content.

I too would prefer that the challenge in the game is more about smarter enemy AI and better encounter design rather than just stat bloat, but the vast majority of devs nowadays seem incapable of the former and instead just go with the latter by default. Can't really single out WotR for that one.

However, I was just pointing out that almost no fight on higher difficulties ever felt drawn out to me (post Chapter 1). I always had to kill or at least disable everything on the screen very quickly because I'd lose at least one or two Party Members if I gave the enemies the chance to react.
 

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