Codex Review RPG Codex Review: Pathfinder Wrath of the Righteous

[LannTheStupid]

I am a spreadsheet strelets. I made a spreadsheet to distribute the buffs instead of using mods that are not from Nexus.

Why should I not use spreadsheets for builds?

 

[ga♥]

The forces of decline all assembled in one place, this topic.

And they demand:
- short dialogues or just plain sentences
- voice acting
- cinematics
- easy gaming, a challenge is too much to endure
- short games (because their girlfriend's boyfriend has no time for it).

What's next? Microtransactions?

 

[Crescent Hawk]

My main beef with recent crpgs is simple. The story and quests are completely unremarkable. Pillars had the same issue. Maybe crpgs need to go small in scope. I dont know.

Devs need to read.

Just get a fucking writer. Or scratch that, soon enough AI will write more interesting characters.

 

[Crescent Hawk]

Hideously ugly art
retarded/generic nuD&D setting
shitbad writing plus extra western cringe
feature bloat ruleset

Completely irredeemable garbage that should never have been made, decline of Codex is total.

You do have a point about art, But considering actual art from Golarion is even worse, that is a criticism I will not level at Owlcat. Outside the silly low poly models, the art is honestly almost quite classy.

 

[Desiderius]

My main beef with recent crpgs is simple. The story and quests are completely unremarkable. Pillars had the same issue. Maybe crpgs need to go small in scope. I dont know.

Devs need to read.

Just get a fucking writer. Or scratch that, soon enough AI will write more interesting characters.

Your ancestors already did.

 

[Dr1f7]

appreciate the brevity of this review compared to others but even so, just saying "this game sucks donkey dick" would be comprehensive enough.

 

[Iluvcheezcake]

I played the game at relase and found it very enjoyable (and buggy, but less than Kingmaker).

 

[Goldschmidt]

So what are some RPGs or RPG-like games with a good complexity of builds, squad-based combat, decent encounter difficulty, and preferably not too bare-bones outside that?

My sweet summer child:

Spoiler

 

[Humanophage]

So what are some RPGs or RPG-like games with a good complexity of builds, squad-based combat, decent encounter difficulty, and preferably not too bare-bones outside that?

My sweet summer child:

Spoiler

How is PoE squad-based? What next, ESO PvP and Crossout?

I played it a fair amount some time ago, and while the complexity of builds is good, it offers little in the way of tactical encounters. I played Grim Dawn more recently and it has very mind-numbing gameplay except for build-planning.

 

[Mortmal]

So what are some RPGs or RPG-like games with a good complexity of builds, squad-based combat, decent encounter difficulty, and preferably not too bare-bones outside that?

There's really few , if you go d&d syle , there's kotc2 you already mentioned and solasta, both are quite barebone outside combat, nothing better than those besides the top 10 classics, but thats like 20 years+ ago now. You could include some jrpgs and stuff like troubleshooters, it does have everything.Eventually baldurs gate 3, non ironically, even lacking many classes, which will turn out the best of them.
It still doesnt make wotr a good roleplaying game, there's too little competition , no one bother anymore to spend the money required to do a really great crpg . For good reasons , as a grognard game would not be profitable.

 

[LannTheStupid]

The forces of decline all assembled in one place, this topic.

And they demand:
- short dialogues or just plain sentences
- voice acting
- cinematics
- easy gaming, a challenge is too much to endure
- short games (because their girlfriend's boyfriend has no time for it).

What's next? Microtransactions?

We usually do not agree with each other — basically, about everything — but it seems you are absolutely correct here. When people are comparing Diablo-clones to isometric role playing games, the case is lost.

 

[Stavrophore]

Yeah, a typical sign of a bad writer is the fact that they feel that their readers HAVE TO be explained what is happening in the world. It reveals that they've realized that their ideas are so weak that simply showing isn't enough.

This is made even worse by the complete inability to be concise. Every phrase or word that that can be cut should be cut. That is the first thing I was taught in a high school literature lesson. Once you've cut the fat, then you tighten the sentences, usually with multiple iterations. The end result is something that resembles the way that an actual human thinks and speaks.

There's no clear answer, a high school lesson answer might be a cookie cutter for things set in this world, biographies, real world novels, thrillers, crime books, but when you are put in completely distant fantasy setting, with customers who have no idea about the pathfinder series, you need some exposition, it's virtually inescapable. You can't just show everything through narrative, actions or the worldbuilding, because the game would be way too costly and require way more effort, something that can be prevented with just few words of exposition, instead of building a custom quest, scene of a humungous battleship destroyed across the desert of grazing tribes.

 

[Humanophage]

Yeah, a typical sign of a bad writer is the fact that they feel that their readers HAVE TO be explained what is happening in the world. It reveals that they've realized that their ideas are so weak that simply showing isn't enough.

This is made even worse by the complete inability to be concise. Every phrase or word that that can be cut should be cut. That is the first thing I was taught in a high school literature lesson. Once you've cut the fat, then you tighten the sentences, usually with multiple iterations. The end result is something that resembles the way that an actual human thinks and speaks.

There's no clear answer, a high school lesson answer might be a cookie cutter for things set in this world, biographies, real world novels, thrillers, crime books, but when you are put in completely distant fantasy setting, with customers who have no idea about the pathfinder series, you need some exposition, it's virtually inescapable. You can't just show everything through narrative, actions or the worldbuilding, because the game would be way too costly and require way more effort, something that can be prevented with just few words of exposition, instead of building a custom quest, scene of a humungous battleship destroyed across the desert of grazing tribes.

I agree that there's too much focus on "show, don't tell". It's true for fiction books or films, but it is not true for games, which can incorporate things like encyclopaedias that don't have to be woven into the narrative. If anything, the attempt to incorporate all that lore into the dialogues ("show! show!") instead of simply having a civilopedia is what produces these unrealistic walls of text.

 

[luj1]

The forces of decline all assembled in one place, this topic.

And they demand:
- short dialogues or just plain sentences
- voice acting
- cinematics
- easy gaming, a challenge is too much to endure
- short games (because their girlfriend's boyfriend has no time for it).

What's next? Microtransactions?

the truth

 

[Stavrophore]

I agree that there's too much focus on "show, don't tell"

Actually what i said is the opposite. Exposition is often overused over narrative or worldbuilding means to explain the world or actions in said world. Granted, exposition through too much of cutscenes/small movies[hello death stranding] can be as annoying as overuse of text.

 

[Lambach]

I liked the difficult fights that had some meaning, but I didn't like the drawn out trash mobs. Why are you not understanding this?

If fights on higher difficulties are "drawn out" for you, then you're doing it wrong.

It's precisely that ridiculous stat bloat on enemies that forces you to end fights ASAP, so that you provide as little opportunity as possible for the enemy to counter-attack. Unlike in Kingmaker, even a superbly built uber-tank won't last forever under direct fire from multiple high-level enemies, so you're incentivized to wrap up battles quickly. On my Unfair playthroughs, it was extremely rare for a fight against trash mobs to last for more than 2 Turns after the first Chapter.

 

[Stavrophore]

On my Unfair playthroughs, it was extremely rare for a fight against trash mobs to last for more than 2 Turns after the first Chapter.

So we are fine now with "nuking the pod" system notoriously used in xcom 2 in rpg games? This just shows the game difficulty tuning rely on stat padding, similar thing happens in underrail, or other games where initative is highly prized for end game content.

 

[Humanophage]

I agree that there's too much focus on "show, don't tell"

Actually what i said is the opposite. Exposition is often overused over narrative or worldbuilding means to explain the world or actions in said world. Granted, exposition through too much of cutscenes/small movies[hello death stranding] can be as annoying as overuse of text.

I am referring to this: "There's no clear answer, a high school lesson answer might be a cookie cutter for things set in this world, biographies, real world novels, thrillers, crime books, but when you are put in completely distant fantasy setting, with customers who have no idea about the pathfinder series, you need some exposition, it's virtually inescapable. You can't just show everything through narrative, actions or the worldbuilding, because the game would be way too costly and require way more effort, something that can be prevented with just few words of exposition, instead of building a custom quest, scene of a humungous battleship destroyed across the desert of grazing tribes."

But they do try to show because of that maxim. Just make an article in the encyclopaedia or a hyperlink and stop sprinkling hints all over the dialogues.

"Don't show, tell in a specially designated place."

 

[vitellus]

the fight during the first act at the inn was a fucking slog in turn-based mode holy fucking shit. i absolutely hated (and still do!) the campaign system almost as much as i hated the equivalent system in kingmaker and put that shit just above causal (fuck you) so i could build warps and not have to mess with it too much. whoever came up with that system needs an ass-reaming with a cactus

 

[LannTheStupid]

On my Unfair playthroughs, it was extremely rare for a fight against trash mobs to last for more than 2 Turns after the first Chapter.

So we are fine now with "nuking the pod" system notoriously used in xcom 2 in rpg games? This just shows the game difficulty tuning rely on stat padding, similar thing happens in underrail, or other games where initative is highly prized for end game content.

And this is bad, why?

To be able to nuke the pod in XCOM-2, the player needs to assemble the proper team, keep the research ahead of the curve, and do correct scouting without revealing himself prematurely. This is fun and cool for a tactical squad simulator.

To be able to nuke the enemies in Kingmaker or WotR, the player needs to assemble the proper team, know how spells and other game mechanics work, and apply them properly. This is fun and cool for an isometric RPG.

"Don't show, tell in a specially designated place."

While I agree with this in general, a link to the Encyclopedia in Seelah's speech when the party finds the Radiance is too Tyranny for me. Let her say it explicitly.

 

[Lambach]

So we are fine now with "nuking the pod" system notoriously used in xcom 2 in rpg games? This just shows the game difficulty tuning rely on stat padding, similar thing happens in underrail, or other games where initative is highly prized for end game content.

I too would prefer that the challenge in the game is more about smarter enemy AI and better encounter design rather than just stat bloat, but the vast majority of devs nowadays seem incapable of the former and instead just go with the latter by default. Can't really single out WotR for that one.

However, I was just pointing out that almost no fight on higher difficulties ever felt drawn out to me (post Chapter 1). I always had to kill or at least disable everything on the screen very quickly because I'd lose at least one or two Party Members if I gave the enemies the chance to react.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

You know what you, Westerners, say about "assume"?

That it makes an ass out of you?

Maybe if you didn't personally identify with some buggy tranny game, you wouldn't care what my assumptions were.

Translation: "I picked the difficulty that is too much for me." Moving on...

As I said, it's not about it being too difficult, it's about it being tedious. And I've got a lot of people clicking agree under my post. This isn't just me saying this.

I appreciated most of the 'difficult' fights (really not that hard, even on core). It's just that I want either fewer trash mobs or faster trash mobs to get through.

If you like trash mobs, good for you. But I don't, and that's my opinion, not my assumption.

And it's not like this is the only problem with the game either. I would be 100% willing to put up with poorly designed combat if the writing were bearable, if the ruleset implementation weren't bloated and buggy.

I ASSuME, that playing games from Owlcat is not your job. If so, why are you doing it?

I'm not playing it. That's my point.

Unless you love its degenerate, fan-fiction tier writing, and/or enjoy the idea of munchkining your way through dozens of boring trash mobs to get to said writing, there's no reason for you to play it.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

@Non-Edgy Gamer have you tried to

Given that I beat every fight I encountered, I already 'got gud'.

The ones who may want to git gud are the devs, since they have to deal with this buggy pos that they made. I do not.

The forces of decline all assembled in one place, this topic.

And they demand:
- short dialogues or just plain sentences
- voice acting
- cinematics
- easy gaming, a challenge is too much to endure
- short games (because their girlfriend's boyfriend has no time for it).

What's next? Microtransactions?

Protip: when you have to strawman this hard, you've probably lost the argument already.

I demand: good writing; gameplay that's challenging, but not boring; and that you fix the bugs before I pay you a dime.

3 things that Kickstarter cucks have convinced themselves don't matter.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

I am a spreadsheet strelets. I made a spreadsheet to distribute the buffs instead of using mods that are not from Nexus.

Why should I not use spreadsheets for builds?

lmfao. I thought spreadsheet builds were a meme.

 

[Non-Edgy Gamer]

If fights on higher difficulties are "drawn out" for you, then you're doing it wrong.

It's precisely that ridiculous stat bloat on enemies that forces you to end fights ASAP, so that you provide as little opportunity as possible for the enemy to counter-attack. Unlike in Kingmaker, even a superbly built uber-tank won't last forever under direct fire from multiple high-level enemies, so you're incentivized to wrap up battles quickly. On my Unfair playthroughs, it was extremely rare for a fight against trash mobs to last for more than 2 Turns after the first Chapter.

Oh wow. Scintillating gameplay. I can't wait to pay $60 for spreadsheet munchkining and two-turn combat so that I can read some tranny's longwinded backstory.