Review RPG Codex Review: Pillars of Eternity - By Vault Dweller and the Spirit of Grunker

[Edward_R_Murrow]

This review seems Good-For-What-It-Is.

Mix in one part turn-based fetishism*, a few dashes of simulationist kvetching, one cup of cynical retrospective on the financial history of cRPGs, and a whole heapload of feigned interest and you get...this.

Doesn't seem like anyone's heart was truly invested in this endeavor, leading to a product of regurgitated memes/themes whipstiched together with some haphazard deep analysis.

*I understand a dislike of RTwP and that it doesn't lend itself well to certain types of gameplay. I also understand that the anti-RTwP sentiment stems, in part, from a mainstream gaming press and audience constantly shitting all over turn-based, deeming it outdated, inferior, and obsolete. But most of the arguments levied against it are total shit and the Infinity Engine games (or clones) are a bad place to rail against it, given how well RTwP jives with computerized D&D (or derivatives).

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

Are you guys sure that Wasteland 2 is not a better CRPG? I myself have played more then 200 hours with WL2. Only 119 on PoE. Sure it has a better story, but the combat and atmosphere is better in WL2. Also we get the Director's Cut for free while we need to pay more for PoE. ( I wasn't a backer ).

 

[Vault Dweller]

But you could have just spewed this accusation in the review then.

What does it have to do with the game itself?

I love that section

RTWP is shit and here's why!

POE combat mechanics are amazing and Sawyer did a brilliant job, you will take my word for it

Truly the review the codex deserves

Combat is shit because it's easy, your characters won't die no matter what, has poor encounter design, and any tactics will do. From this perspective that nobody on the Codex disagrees with, does it really matter what the mechanics are like? I felt that some mechanics (like the engagement system) would have worked better in TB and had the game been TB *and* challenging, combat would have been far more engaging.

 

[Excidium II]

Combat is shit because it's easy, your characters won't die no matter what, has poor encounter design, and any tactics will do. From this perspective that nobody on the Codex disagrees with, does it really matter what the mechanics are like? I felt that some mechanics (like the engagement system) would have worked better in TB and had the game been TB *and* challenging, combat would have been far more engaging.

I know what the mechanics are like, was mostly interested in knowing why you think the mechanics are great because I disagree. It's well-intentioned I guess, but the implementation just failed completely because of things being unbalanced or boring by design when they weren't outright broken

If the game was turn-based and harder, combat would just take longer to resolve (but at least action speed and recovery wouldn't be so fucking obtuse)

 

[Angthoron]

Are you guys sure that Wasteland 2 is not a better CRPG? I myself have played more then 200 hours with WL2. Only 119 on PoE. Sure it has a better story, but the combat and atmosphere is better in WL2. Also we get the Director's Cut for free while we need to pay more for PoE. ( I wasn't a backer ).

Pretty sure Mountain is the best game because:

 

[The Bootymancer]

Good review, I agree with most of it.

Pillars of Eternity is still easily the best CRPG released in the past decade, though. When you're famished for food, anything above mediocrity will do.

You are wrong.

 

[Florian Gheorghe]

Pretty sure Mountain is the best game because:

LOL!

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Good review, I agree with most of it.

Pillars of Eternity is still easily the best CRPG released in the past decade, though. When you're famished for food, anything above mediocrity will do.

Not even the best Obsidian RPG of the past decade - MotB is better, and I'd wager that some people would consider New Vegas better as well, even though I'm not a huge fan of it personally.

 

[felipepepe]

Pfff, even Dragon Age: Origins is better than PoE.

 

[Sensuki]

PE feels better to play though because of the controls & camera. But DA:O has better content.

 

[Irenaeus II]

Pillars of Eternity is still easily the best CRPG released in the past decade.

 

[Sensuki]

I felt that some mechanics (like the engagement system) would have worked better in TB and had the game been TB *and* challenging, combat would have been far more engaging.

This. They were designing it like a turn-based game when it's not a turn-based game. Unsurprising from a bunch of Tabletop players who want to make a TB game.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Pfff, even Dragon Age: Origins is better than PoE.

PE feels better to play though because of the controls & camera. But DA:O has better content.

I disagree, actually. DA:O might have the better combat system, but it was buried under a shit mountain of bad encounter design - except in DA:O, fights against large groups of darkspawn would literally take forever, and require tedious micromanagement as well. At least boring fights in PoE are over quickly with minimal input (on Hard, haven't tried PotD). And in terms of writing and world building, PoE wins handily.

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

PE feels better to play though because of the controls & camera. But DA:O has better content.

Um no. DAO has much more filler trash mobs. It also features stupid as fuck dialogues and clever as rock characters. I don't see where is this 'better content'.

 

[Jasede]

When DA:O even enters the conversation you know they fucked up horribly.

 

[Irenaeus II]

When DA:O even enters the conversation you know they fucked up horribly.

Agree. The people quoting it are fucking up horribly.

 

[Sensuki]

I hate DA:O, and I haven't played it since I finished it on Nightmare when it came out, but it had much better C&C, some of the quests actually weren't too bad and some of the boss fights were pretty good. I disagree about the writing in a lot of cases. BioWare writing is often retarded, but Obsidian's performance in Pillars of Eternity was one of their worst performances to date as far as writing/story/plot goes.

DA:O doesn't have a character as good as Durance, but it also doesn't have one as boringly written as Pallegina, or Kana Rua.

 

[Jasede]

Hey Irenaeus, let me be real with you for a moment. No jokes, no shitposting, just being real:

Do you really like PoE or are you just defending it for the fun and drama? And if you really do like it, can you link me a thread where you mentioned why? I am curious what the people who legitimately (not in a shill or drama way) liked it found appealing in the game.

 

[ROARRR]

I hate DA:O, and I haven't played it since I finished it on Nightmare when it came out, but it had much better C&C, some of the quests actually weren't too bad and some of the boss fights were pretty good. I disagree about the writing in a lot of cases. BioWare writing is often retarded, but Obsidian's performance in Pillars of Eternity was one of their worst performances to date as far as writing/story/plot goes.

DA:O doesn't have a character as good as Durance, but it also doesn't have one as boringly written as Pallegina, or Kana Rua.

This makes no sense, because you say you hate it than you start differentiating it and you even played it completely through?!

 

[One-and-a-half-Ivan]

but it had much better C&C.

That's the only not-so-horrible part of DAO, and still it's not that great. On par with PoE, in my opinion.

some of the quests actually weren't too bad

And in PoE in pretty much every quest you have different variants to roleplay. In DAO such quests are exception, most of them are "go there, kill, kill, kill".

I disagree about the writing in a lot of cases. BioWare writing is often retarded, but Obsidian's performance in Pillars of Eternity was one of their worst performances to date as far as writing/story/plot goes.

PoE may not be Obsidian's best effort, but it does not have such dialogues as:
"I won't let you come in and kill him! He's our ruler, he saved our land! I will sacrifice myself in order to save him!
[Persuade]"But, you know, he's a bad guy".
"Oh yeah, you're right, go kill this motherfucker".

DA:O doesn't have a character as good as Durance, but it also doesn't have one as boringly written as Pallegina, or Kana Rua.

Alister is worse than every PoE's character.

The comparison with DAO is retarded

 

[Angthoron]

PoE is meh. DAO is crap. It's really simple.

 

[Israfael]

Pfff, even Dragon Age: Origins is better than PoE.

and require tedious micromanagement as well. At least boring fights in PoE are over quickly with minimal input

DAO was actually tailored to be played as a RTWP game, with extensive programmable AI for companions and sensible approach to spells (various combos to offset ostensibly weak spells that seemed shit), unlike PoE, where you have to do 100x micro (and i miss action implicit queue) to play optimally and survive the hard encounters (without pussying out and going to tavern to get more 'planks'). Your party probably had 2x cyphers or something if you felt combat was consistently faceroll. (my party of 2x mages, 2x warriors, durance and Tommy has hard time if spells are exhausted).

 

[tuluse]

PoE has an action queue.

 

[Israfael]

PoE has an action queue.

As i said, _implicit_. Otherwise there wouldn't be topics all around the internets asking 'is there queue in POE' and 'manuals' like this : https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/7...n-queuing-demystified-and-some-possible-bugs/

 

[Eyestabber]

Hey Vault Dweller, I've been curious about something I've seen you write rather consistently:

"Like all great RPGs, Torment sold fuck all, while the Baldur’s Gate series went on a world tour, sold millions of copies, and turned Bioware into a powerhouse, EA’s favorite bitch, and a true champion of diversity. Thus, when Obsidian was given a chance to pitch their dream game on Kickstarter, they didn’t hesitate and picked Baldur’s Gate, for a choice between a game that sells and a game that doesn’t is no choice at all."

This is just another phrasing of an argument I've seen you use multiple times: good RPGs don't sell a lot, action games disguised as RPGs are the real best sellers.

Yet you are developing an RPG (and a good one, from what I've seen so far). That means you are perfectly aware of the fact that your game is unlikely to become a commercial success. So...how do you reconcile both ideas? Do you believe AoD will be the exception OR are you simply marching to a battle you KNOW you can't possibly win? Looking forward to joining the cRPG Valhalla alongside Sir-Tech and Troika?