Review RPG Codex Review: Wasteland 2

[Darth Roxor]

Being unable to stop the dog plague in the RSM HQ no matter what you do is also another thing that is just retarded.

?

Stop it from happening, that is. You can kill the crazy farmer the first time you get to meet him, you can even skip the farm completely, hell, you can even *skip the prison*, and the dogs still get poisoned.

 

[Morkar Left]

Ian McKellen right after acting in The Hobbit movies?

 

[J_C]

Nicely written review, I even liked it better than the overwrought reviews of some older games on the Codex (which were good, but too damn long).

 

[felipepepe]

Guess I am getting old or too demanding, I can't understand the praise this game gets on here...

Yeah, I get the in-context praise, but not the isolated one. W2 deserves all the credits for sparking a new CRPG era (ok, Legend of Grimrock also did help), but the game is a 7/10 at most. Release this in 1999 and no one would bat an eye.

 

[Athelas]

Isn't 7/10 indicative of a good game? What are you, a video game journalist?

 

[V_K]

W2 deserves all the credits for sparking a new CRPG era

Shouldn't it share it with SRR and Broken Age at least?

 

[Infinitron]

Release this in 1999 and no one would bat an eye.

Oh, I don't think so. On the contrary, it would be embraced by the proto-Codexers of the era as a turn-based, C&C-filled alternative to the Baldur's Gate popamole.

 

[Minttunator]

Good review! You probably could've spent a few more sentences on bashing the weapon balance (i.e. the lack thereof - which is my biggest gripe with the game thus far), but it seems inXile plan to improve that in the near future, so it might not be necessary in the long term. I agree with everything else you guys pointed out. WL2 is clearly one of the top 3 games of 2014 and that's saying more than what it sounds like, considering what a great year this has been.

 

[tuluse]

George Weidman touched on the same thing in his review. Seems plenty codexers agree in the main thread as well. Already a consensus I think.

The game has like 5 tutorial areas (4 of which you will go to).

I think the biggest flaw of the game is that it's too big for it's own good. If you compressed the tedium it would be a far more interesting game.

 

[Darth Roxor]

More like, the proto-codexers of the era would see it as a huge decline coming just a year after Fallout 2.

 

[Grunker]

George Weidman touched on the same thing in his review. Seems plenty codexers agree in the main thread as well. Already a consensus I think.

The game has like 5 tutorial areas (4 of which you will go to).

Why are you suddenly talking about the tutorial? It's the entire start of the game that's boring, not just its tutorial (according to the people I cite, mind, I haven't played it yet myself yet... waiting for Trait/Perk patch that never comes )

 

[Jaesun]

Release this in 1999 and no one would bat an eye.

Oh, I don't think so. On the contrary, it would be embraced by the proto-Codexers of the era as a turn-based, C&C-filled alternative to the Baldur's Gate popamole.

Exactly. We would have a different Codex Trinity™

 

[felipepepe]

More like, the proto-codexers of the era would see it as a huge decline coming just a year after Fallout 2.

Exactly. BG2 is RTwP, but it's a fantastic RTwP game. W2 not so much an exemplary TB tactical game...

 

[Vault Dweller]

Except it doesn't work well, because, for starters, your "positioning" choices are almost always non-existent. You either have a bunch of suspiciously conveniently placed barrels and crates that make rushing for them a no-brainer, OR you are given a place with no cover whatsoever, OR you are given a place with no cover whatsoever that is also painfully cramped (like that fucking side-quest brothel with God's militia invaders).

Crates are destructible and won't last long in a heavy firefight leaving you a sitting duck.

Anyway, while in filler fights you can just stand there and shoot from the hip, positioning does matter in tough 'over your head' fights. If your point is that such fights aren't as common as the filler fights, then I agree.

You control 6-7 characters, and if you had to make important decisions 6-7 times a turn it would get tedious fast.

It hardly gets tedious in blobbers or in other oldskoolers that had 6+ party members.

Maybe my memory fails me, but if we take Wiz 8, for an example, only spellcasters get to make important choices.

Furthermore, it would also be non-tedious if every of your decisions was important, but, on the flipside, the enemies wouldn't be so horribly HP-bloated (FUCK YOU HONEY BADGERS), which for some bizarro reason you are actually applauding here as "true oldschool design".

Because that's what old school design was like, in case your memory fails you. I said it's the very definition of such design, which you read as a praise. It's not. It's a factual statement.

There are a lot of different guns with different stats in the game, so most of your characters will have secondary weapons, allowing them to take advantage of the unspent AP (or carry them over) .

"A lot of different guns", maybe, but "with a lot of different stats" is almost borderline fallacy considering the ridiculously linear progression of weapons. [/quote]
And yet you can get an SMG with 3AP burst and 5 or 6 AP burst. Or a pistol with 3-4 or 5-6 AP. Within the same category, I mean. My hobo started with a shotgun but he had quite a few SP to spare so I gave him a machinegun. My sniper had a backup weapon. Etc.

I'm also surprised that you don't mention the absolutely stupid armour mechanics that force you to run around naked for the entirety of the endgame.

I didn't run around naked thus I had no complaints. The armor system simply wasn't interesting but that's not a reason to bitch about it in a review.

So I'm just looking at this dude standing up and shooting my bros, and I'm left wondering about one thing: why is just shooting him the only thing available to me? Why can't my kung-fu brawler grapple him down? Why can't I disarm him? Why can't I interrupt his shooting spree? Why can't I cripple his arms? WHY? WHY? GOD, WHY?

I'm not sure I understand the criticism. It's a turn-based game. He's shooting, you're waiting for your turn. Maybe he cheats and starts first (I don't recall as he didn't give me much trouble), but that's about it. Why fantasizing about some interrupt or wrestle or disarm mechanics?

consequences and reactivity

Praising those all the time, but not mentioning some of the very obvious stinkers is also strange to me.

A game either has a lot of C&C or it doesn't. WL2 has a lot of it, more than any other game I can think of. Sure, not every choice is great and not every reaction is interesting (see the infamous drowning kid moral dilemma that's not a dilemma at all), but you Have. A. Shitload. Of. Choices. Thus, bitching that they missed an opportunity to insert a choice or a consequence somewhere would have been douchy.

And I'm not even talking about the "you suck!", which is so terrible it escapes words.

I did mention it and suggested to crucify the person responsible.

No, everything else about him is completely stupid as well. First, the quest he gives to stop the renegade monk? WOW! Such a brilliant fucking idea to give it to a complete band of strangers, instead of taking some of your fanatical gunmen, moving out and wasting the dude on the spot before he even gets to talk.

Well, it's an RPG. Entrusting important tasks to strangers is a time-honored tradition. You can't single out WL2 without complaining about 99% of RPGs.

 

[Infinitron]

More like, the proto-codexers of the era would see it as a huge decline coming just a year after Fallout 2.

Or maybe both? We are talking about Codexers, after all.

Remember, you wouldn't get another full party creation/full party control turn-based isometric game until 2003, and that one was probably more purely combat-focused. In general, these games are exceedingly rare. It's a landmark.

 

[Zombra]

I found it slightly confusing that two people were credited with the review, yet the voice of the reviewer constantly refers to "what I did". "My" party was built like this, "I" got stopped hard at the Prison, etc. Other than that stylistic choice, I enjoyed the review.

Am I the only one who "got" the "You suck!" ?

 

[LusciousPear]

I basically agree with Roxor. I enjoyed playing WL2....but I don't feel compelled enough to play again. Combat actually got kinda boring, and there were really only 2 guns per level.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Crates are destructible and won't last long in a heavy firefight leaving you a sitting duck.

Barrels aren't. The same with chest-high walls, road signs, parking metres, and many other things that are very conveniently placed and make rushing for them a no-brainer.

Maybe my memory fails me, but if we take Wiz 8, for an example, only spellcasters get to make important choices.

Which was still more important stuff to choose from than in Wasteland 2. Which also reinforces my claim that adding more options to make some decisions important wouldn't automatically make the game tedious.

Because that's what old school design was like, in case your memory fails you.

Maybe in jRPGs. There was hardly any constant hp bloating for mook enemies (and topping it with fucking 3000, FUCK YOU SCORPITRONS) comparable to some of the hights of absurd that Wasteland 2 reaches in Krondor, in Goldbox games (because D&D), in M&M, in Darklands, in RoA, in Daggerfall, in JA, even in friggin' Fallout.

And yet you can get an SMG with 3AP burst and 5 or 6 AP burst. Or a pistol with 3-4 or 5-6 AP.

And yet I still remember that one was clearly superior to the other.

I didn't run around naked thus I had no complaints. The armor system simply wasn't interesting but that's not a reason to bitch about it in a review.

The armour system is beyond "uninteresting", it's downright retarded and counter-intuitive. You're gimping yourself by taking expensive and rare armour with high values in the late midgame when dudes with energy weapons start appearing en masse, what is wrong with you?

I'm not sure I understand the criticism. It's a turn-based game. He's shooting, you're waiting for your turn. Maybe he cheats and starts first (I don't recall as he didn't give me much trouble), but that's about it. Why fantasizing about some interrupt or wrestle or disarm mechanics?

I'm fantasizing about being able to do all that wrestling or disarming when it's finally my turn, so that I don't have to pray that my early game unreliable .38 peashooters with shit THC will be enough to take this one guy down before he returns to slaughtering my entire party with HIS peashooter that for some reason has three times higher damage than mine.

Something that, you know, would be present in just about every RPG designed in the oldschool way.

Thus, bitching that they missed an opportunity to insert a choice or a consequence somewhere would have been douchy.

This would have been true if the opportunity in question didn't concern a hub central to the main quest.

I did mention it and suggested to crucify the person responsible.

Hence why I said 'I'm not even talking about this'. In the grand scheme of things, that's just one lousy line. The other two points are downright gamebreaking for the whole area.

Well, it's an RPG. Entrusting important tasks to strangers is a time-honored tradition. You can't single out WL2 without complaining about 99% of RPGs.

I can and I will because entrusting important tasks to strangers can be made non-stupid. Enola's quest is anything but non-stupid.

 

[tuluse]

George Weidman touched on the same thing in his review. Seems plenty codexers agree in the main thread as well. Already a consensus I think.

The game has like 5 tutorial areas (4 of which you will go to).

Why are you suddenly talking about the tutorial? It's the entire start of the game that's boring, not just its tutorial (according to the people I cite, mind, I haven't played it yet myself yet... waiting for Trait/Perk patch that never comes )

My point is that the first 4 areas you visit make up an extended tutorial, that's why it's boring.

 

[Grunker]

George Weidman touched on the same thing in his review. Seems plenty codexers agree in the main thread as well. Already a consensus I think.

The game has like 5 tutorial areas (4 of which you will go to).

Why are you suddenly talking about the tutorial? It's the entire start of the game that's boring, not just its tutorial (according to the people I cite, mind, I haven't played it yet myself yet... waiting for Trait/Perk patch that never comes )

My point is that the first 4 areas you visit make up an extended tutorial, that's why it's boring.

That makes it even worse

 

[sser]

What kind of barbarian opts to use the pasty 3D models as an avatar and not one of the well-drawn portraits???

 

[mastroego]

Question.

Has it been perfected by mods? Is it a good time to buy?
Thanks for any useful comments.

 

[naossano]

W2 deserves all the credits for sparking a new CRPG era

Shouldn't it share it with SRR and Broken Age at least?

The WL2 kickstarter campaign raised the highest money for a kickstarter at the time, it shown the willingness of a strong community of players to support the project and (maybe) support the incline, Fargo himself represents Interplay, a company that represents a lot in the RPG world. The campaign itself not only was funny and interesting (at least in advertizing, the guy knows his job), but very known worldwide (at least amongs the game industry, the gamers and the internet users). It brought a brighter attention to the indies/crowfunding/turn-based isometric RPG, and the public for it, and gave more confidence in many devellloppers to go forward and kickstarter that kind of games, those who actually wanted to, and those who wanted to make money on that hype.
Regardless the quality of the product, it gave the whole thing far more visibility/public knowledge.

I am very skeptical for now. From what i already played, there are many things i dislike/hate (and a few things i am madly in love), but even if i end up disapointed, i am confident that the whole kickstarter/early Access campaign gave a boost on the kind of games i enjoy. I know that i will get to play Underrail, Pillars of eternity, Satellite Reign, Dead State, Age of Decadence, Torment, Insomnia, After Reset, Hard West, Xulima, Seven Dragon Saga, partly because of the success of WL2 campaign.

Regardless of WL2 success/failure, those games will be released and some of them will have some success.

 

[Kem0sabe]

WL2's writing is not good to great, far from it.

 

[Cassidy]

WL2's writing is not good to great, far from it.

Did they keep those cringeworthy "arrow to the knee" references in the release version?