Review RPG Codex Review: Wasteland 2

[Sceptic]

VD doesn't discuss audiovisuals and never has. As a soundfag this has always annoyed me, but I respect his desire to focus purely on gameplay-relevant matters when reviewing a game.

Anyway great review as usual, even if I agree with a lot of the issues that Roxor raises and I don't think of the game as highly as VD and Eric seem to. It's not exactly what I was hoping it would be when I pledged, and combat is certainly a low point, but all in all it's still better than most CRPGs released in the past 5 years, even if I prefer both DOS and MMX to it.

 

[Wyrmlord]

The review seems to convince me that WL2 would be my kind of game. It touched on exactly the details I wanted to discuss.

 

[Excommunicator]

Infinitron
Grunker

TBH your points don't matter. They're both professional developers whom I respect a lot, one of whom is a professional musician.

 

[Grunker]

Infinitron
Grunker

TBH your points don't matter. They're both professional developers whom I respect a lot, one of whom is a professional musician.

I'm not sure why them being professionel developers and musicians has anything to do with my post.

 

[Excommunicator]

I get it, you're editors and you're defending the article because you were the final pass on this. You have final responsibility.

Unfortunately it's an indefensible position. Meet the standards that the Codex has been building its reputation on tearing down for other sites or accept the hypocrisy of the stance.

VD and Eric are exceptionally qualified to discuss these matters with authority. There are no questions there whatsoever.



Just amend the review to cover these basic aspects. It's pretty simple

 

[Darth Roxor]

Just amend the review to cover these basic aspects. It's pretty simple

Can add this:

[Addendum by Darth Roxor]

Technicalities

Graphixxx are shit because Unity.

There are stock sounds everywhere and the music is largely minimalistic and ambient.

 

[Infinitron]

I get it, you're editors and you're defending the article because you were the final pass on this. You have final responsibility.

Unfortunately it's an indefensible position. Meet the standards that the Codex has been building its reputation on tearing down for other sites or accept the hypocrisy of the stance.

VD and Eric are exceptionally qualified to discuss these matters with authority. There are no questions there whatsoever.



Just amend the review to cover these basic aspects. It's pretty simple

Let me make things easier for you: http://www.rpgcodex.net/tags.php?id=489

19-Nov-2014 RPG Codex Review: Wasteland 2
14-Jul-2011 Of Monsters, Men and BROche
24-Mar-2011 Vault Dweller Does Dragon Age II
23-Jan-2010 Dragon Age: Choices and Consequences
17-May-2009 NWN2: Mysteries of Westgate Review
26-Oct-2007 Mask of the Betrayer Review
20-Nov-2006 Gothic 3 Review
23-Apr-2006 Oblivion Review
14-Mar-2006 Space Rangers 2 Review
9-Jul-2004 Blast from the past: Lionheart Review

 

[Grunker]

I get it, you're editors and you're defending the article because you were the final pass on this. You have final responsibility.

Unfortunately it's an indefensible position. Meet the standards that the Codex has been building its reputation on tearing down for other sites or accept the hypocrisy of the stance.

VD and Eric are exceptionally qualified to discuss these matters with authority. There are no questions there whatsoever.



Just amend the review to cover these basic aspects. It's pretty simple

do a sweep of roxor and vd's reviews for the codex, check how much they delve into graphics and sound

let me know how that works out for you

while you're at it do a review of WL2's aesthetics. if we publish that do you promise to cease the feigned abhorrence?

 

[Darth Roxor]

do a sweep of roxor and vd's reviews for the codex, check how much they delve into graphics and sound

let me know how that works out for you

I always mention those, though, so the joke's a bit on you

 

[Grunker]

do a sweep of roxor and vd's reviews for the codex, check how much they delve into graphics and sound

let me know how that works out for you

I always mention those, though, so the joke's a bit on you

I know, but you never spend much space on them. Except, IIRC, in the Shadowrun Review where you spend a bit of time on the delicious art and the good soundtrack?

EDIT: lol, I was on the money with the soundtrack, but you basically only mention the art by saying "the portraits are really cool."

 

[Zorba the Hutt]

The Codex is the one site where a focus on gameplay rather than graphics is emphasised... can't say I expected anything else from a VD review. Thanks for doing it.

 

[Excommunicator]

There's no ignorance, feigned or otherwise. A standard not met previously doesn't excuse a standard not met today. If you're not trying to improve your standards then you're worsening them, that's how it works.

I understand the "schtick" but it isn't going to change my assessment that these areas need to be addressed. I don't care if they're bad in the game in question, they're not only relevant but essential to evaluating the game as a whole.

I'd have done the analysis myself and offered to add it to the review out of respect for the authors but I'm one of the few around here who hasn't bought or played it. In fact I intend(ed) to use the review as a measure to decide whether or not I would.

That's unimportant though. What's important is the Codex as a go-to place to get comprehensive, well-written and authoritative reviews on all newly released (and past) RPGs, and where the community-driven nature of this place means those reviews never raise concerns regarding bad media or journalistic practices.

 

[Roguey]

Graphixxx are shit because Unity.

It's more art-direction than the engine, considering Shadowrun Returns and other much-better looking things (even inXile's own Torment).

 

[4too]

'Knights In White Satin’



From page 2.

…
The armour system is beyond "uninteresting", it's downright retarded and counter-intuitive. You're gimping yourself by taking expensive and rare armour with high values in the late midgame when dudes with energy weapons start appearing en masse, what is wrong with you? …

This WHITE KNIGHTING of Pow-ah AH-mor, is it an essential meme in all RPG’s? Or yet another stick to beat this thread’s pinata ?

Why bother with choice and consequence of cover systems when Pow-ah AH-mor TRANSFORMerS one into Michael Bay god mode.

Historical cycles of the Achilles Heel or paper, scissors, rock:

high cost battleship / medieval breast plate / 60 ton tanks,

taken out by,

cheaper aircraft / gun powder projectiles / Rocket Propelled Grenades,

become dramatic techno wedges to crack the opposition.

SciFi Energy weapons penetrating complex SciFi super mensch armor, how inconvenient.


Wasteland 2, MICROWAVING Tin Men in their cans with lightning bolts / plasma pulses etc. …too serious a business?

No, gives me the giggles?

No, I …

then Duck And Cover!






@ VD et al, new entitlements have arisen! Booth babes hail the Agreement Achievement!(tm) {biding NOW at 9 cents, … the dozen , at your local Codex! }


4too

 

[Grunker]

Graphixxx are shit because Unity.

It's more art-direction than the engine, considering Shadowrun Returns and other much-better looking things (even inXile's own Torment).

Shadowrun has better looking art, but the game itself (the assets, the models, etc) are pretty fugly. I'd say WL2 even outshines Shadowrun in some aspects there.

 

[Darth Roxor]

This WHITE KNIGHTING of Pow-ah AH-mor

not my point at all

but i shall brofist thee nevertheless

It's more art-direction than the engine

Obviously, but it's also a matter of 3D graphixxx, I think. SRR looks great because it's mostly 2D, but most of its 3D models and such are actually pretty underwhelming.

 

[Roguey]

Shadowrun has better looking art, but the game itself (the assets, the models, etc) are pretty fugly.

I strongly disagree. I love the stylized 3D models.

 

[Grunker]

A standard not met previously doesn't excuse a standard not met today.

Attempting to meet a standard of "touch on each and every aspect of the game as defined by these arbitrary categories: graphics, story, sound, gameplay" is one of the major reasons why mainstream reviews suck balls. Doing so leads to boring, formulaic reviews. For VD, the last bit takes up much more of his evaluation of a game than the three other parts, so it's natural that his review reflects that.

In other words, writing exhaustive, category-based reviews is not "meeting a standard", it's unnecessarily restricting the reviewer by demanding he focus on a bunch of boring shit he doesn't care or even might know much about.

 

[Infinitron]

Shadowrun's characters are extremely low-poly. An example of a Unity game with fairly high quality character models is Blackguards (which has a huge installation footprint to match)

 

[Grunker]

Shadowrun's characters are extremely low-poly. An example of a Unity game with fairly high quality character models is Blackguards (which has a huge installation footprint to match)

See, again, I'm not actually digging the models that much. Blackguards is another example where the pre-rendered stuff can be absolutely beautiful while the rest of the game is a complete eyesore in my opinion. Effects, models, the works.

 

[naossano]

Graphixxx are shit because Unity.

It's more art-direction than the engine, considering Shadowrun Returns and other much-better looking things (even inXile's own Torment).

Shadowrun has better looking art, but the game itself (the assets, the models, etc) are pretty fugly. I'd say WL2 even outshines Shadowrun in some aspects there.

Might not mean much Shadowrun Returns was the best looking (and hearing) game i played the last few years, while WL2 & JA:F are the worst looking games i played the last few years.
Seriously, WL2 is a pain for the eyes. It is like they didn't considered the fact that an isometric RPG could be good-looking and made it the worst possible.
Even not considering the graphical aspect as a meaningfull feature, it is still hard to look past the graphics and get to the meat of the game. (C&C, lore, etc...)

 

[Vault Dweller]

Good review, but you cant say that shadowrun is an awful tablet game and then say wastelands 2 is the landmark of incline and combat works well.... Little use of terrain, almost no strategic choices,boring repetitive filler fights like a jrpg ,shadowrun combat looks deep compare to it.Brofist to roxxor as he says it better than i could ever.

Since I have a few min...

Shadowrun is a beautiful game (I loved the art), but it was linear, shallow, simplistic, and easy. That's four strikes against it. I've even thought of reviewing it but it was so fucking simple that you couldn't say much about it (other than 'it's shit'). No character system. No inventory. No choices, just a linear ride. No exploration - go from one mission to another. Cosmetic dialogues saying the same thing (fucking hate it). One-stop shopping design. It IS an iphone fucking game and if I recall correctly, it was pitched as a tablet game and it shows.

Wasteland 2 has flaws but when it comes to design, it's MUCH better than Shadowrun in every possible way.

 

[MicoSelva]

Am I the only one who "got" the "You suck!" ?

Well, I did not get it. Explain?

 

[Excommunicator]

A standard not met previously doesn't excuse a standard not met today.

Attempting to meet a standard of "touch on each and every aspect of the game as defined by these arbitrary categories: graphics, story, sound, gameplay" is one of the major reasons why mainstream reviews suck balls. Doing so leads to boring, formulaic reviews. For VD, the last bit takes up much more of his evaluation of a game than the three other parts, so it's natural that his review reflects that.

In other words, writing exhaustive, category-based reviews is not "meeting a standard", it's unnecessarily restricting the reviewer a bunch of boring shit he doesn't care or even might know much about.

It's not a lofty standard, it's a bare minimum of coverage to the content of the game. It's also not arbitrary. Arbitrary would be saying that the endgame needs more analysis. A project where a huge chunk - possibly even a majority in some cases - of resources including developer time, effort and money goes towards producing these assets necessitates a mention if not a basic analysis. You're trying to inflate my words to make a point. I said nothing about arbitrary categories or exhaustive category-based analyses. There is no mention of these aspects and that isn't something you can deny.

 

[Grunker]

A standard not met previously doesn't excuse a standard not met today.

Attempting to meet a standard of "touch on each and every aspect of the game as defined by these arbitrary categories: graphics, story, sound, gameplay" is one of the major reasons why mainstream reviews suck balls. Doing so leads to boring, formulaic reviews. For VD, the last bit takes up much more of his evaluation of a game than the three other parts, so it's natural that his review reflects that.

In other words, writing exhaustive, category-based reviews is not "meeting a standard", it's unnecessarily restricting the reviewer a bunch of boring shit he doesn't care or even might know much about.

It's not a lofty standard, it's a bare minimum of coverage to the content of the game. It's also not arbitrary. Arbitrary would be saying that the endgame needs more analysis. A project where a huge chunk - possibly even a majority in some cases - of resources including developer time, effort and money goes towards producing these assets necessitates a mention if not a basic analysis. You're trying to inflate my words to make a point. I said nothing about arbitrary categories or exhaustive category-based analyses. There is no mention of these aspects and that isn't something you can deny.

No, I am saying that VD has no obligation review the audio in WL2 and that his review does not become worse because he does not do it. It just becomes a review that does not review the audio.