Game News Russian studio Owlcat Games to develop Pathfinder CRPG, Chris Avellone onboard as narrative designer

[Blaine]

If Chris Avellone is peanut butter, then pretty soon they'll have spread his writing cred so thinly over so many games that if each game is a piece of toast, then there will only be a one molecule-thin film of peanut paste on each piece of toast.

How many games have announced his involvement within the past two years? It seems like at least fifty. Is anyone else in the entire industry NOT a hack, or must he write every single story-driven game in some capacity?

 

[Vault Dweller]

Tyranny shat on everything that made old school great and well old school. Now they found an escape goat a nostalgia bubble.

It's absolutely nostalgia tho. Just like Grimrock - first one sold what, a million? Mostly to 35-somethings who played crawlers in the early 90s and thought they still like them. So they bought LoG1 en masse and realized they really don't anymore. Didn't give a shit about LoG2 afterwards. Same for adventures or isometric RPGs. Initial enthusiasm turned into indifference. These genres never had the potential to sell in millions and never will.

I don't think it was nostalgia. There are two factors there:

- Both the Banner Saga and LoG have greatly benefited from being the first high-profile indie RPGs, getting tons of media coverage that the sequels didn't get.
- While I really liked LoG2, LoG1 was a very basic DM clone with less depth and features and a poorly designed character system on top of it. Dungeon Master 2 is a much better game in every way but the graphics. So it's possible that people played it and moved on, as only people who absolutely fucking loved a game would buy its sequel.

 

[Lady_Error]

Hate to break this to you, but this game will be RTwP.

So RTwP is horrible now?

 

[Azalin]

MCA is doing Russian shovelware now?Oh how the mighty have fallen,inb4 the next MCA project is in the App Store/Google Play

 

[TigerKnee]

So RTwP is horrible now?

Yes

 

[Blaine]

So RTwP is horrible now?

>now

 

[Lady_Error]

On a site where a pure RT game wins the "Age of Incline" vote, people shouldn't really complain about RTwP.

 

[Black]

Hate to break this to you, but this game will be RTwP.

So RTwP is horrible now?

Always has been.
Pure rt > rtwp.

 

[ArchAngel]

MCA is doing Russian shovelware now?Oh how the mighty have fallen,inb4 the next MCA project is in the App Store/Google Play

Isn't Siege of Dragonspear going to be on tablets and phones?

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

I don't really mind the generic, stylized look - d20 is pretty much the epitome of generic fantasy stuff and Pathfinder is a decent system (and the closest thing to TOEE 3.5 we may ever see). Fuck the RTwP shit though.

 

[cvv]

Tyranny shat on everything that made old school great and well old school. Now they found an escape goat a nostalgia bubble.

It's absolutely nostalgia tho. Just like Grimrock - first one sold what, a million? Mostly to 35-somethings who played crawlers in the early 90s and thought they still like them. So they bought LoG1 en masse and realized they really don't anymore. Didn't give a shit about LoG2 afterwards. Same for adventures or isometric RPGs. Initial enthusiasm turned into indifference. These genres never had the potential to sell in millions and never will.

I don't think it was nostalgia. There are two factors there:

- Both the Banner Saga and LoG have greatly benefited from being the first high-profile indie RPGs, getting tons of media coverage that the sequels didn't get.
- While I really liked LoG2, LoG1 was a very basic DM clone with less depth and features and a poorly designed character system on top of it. Dungeon Master 2 is a much better game in every way but the graphics. So it's possible that people played it and moved on, as only people who absolutely fucking loved a game would buy its sequel.

I think LoG got meaty media coverage only after it turned out to be such a shocking commercial success, not before. Your second point is wholly unconvincing to me. First, your rating of LoG1 subjective - I personally think LoG1 is a case of pupil surpassing all its teachers - second, DM2 is better to be compared to LoG2 and third, you'd only pass on LoG sequel if you disliked the game and you only disliked the game if you realized you don't really love dungeon crawlers anymore, not because LoG1 is a terrible game.

 

[l3loodAngel]

Tyranny shat on everything that made old school great and well old school. Now they found an escape goat a nostalgia bubble.

It's absolutely nostalgia tho. Just like Grimrock - first one sold what, a million? Mostly to 35-somethings who played crawlers in the early 90s and thought they still like them. So they bought LoG1 en masse and realized they really don't anymore. Didn't give a shit about LoG2 afterwards. Same for adventures or isometric RPGs. Initial enthusiasm turned into indifference. These genres never had the potential to sell in millions and never will.

I don't think it was nostalgia. There are two factors there:

- Both the Banner Saga and LoG have greatly benefited from being the first high-profile indie RPGs, getting tons of media coverage that the sequels didn't get.
- While I really liked LoG2, LoG1 was a very basic DM clone with less depth and features and a poorly designed character system on top of it. Dungeon Master 2 is a much better game in every way but the graphics. So it's possible that people played it and moved on, as only people who absolutely fucking loved a game would buy its sequel.

I think LoG got meaty media coverage only after it turned out to be such a shocking commercial success, not before. Your second point is wholly unconvincing to me. First, your rating of LoG1 subjective - I personally think LoG1 is a case of pupil surpassing all its teachers - second, DM2 is better to be compared to LoG2 and third, you'd only pass on LoG sequel if you disliked the game and you only disliked the game if you realized you don't really love dungeon crawlers anymore, not because LoG1 is a terrible game.

Nobody knows why there was such a huge difference in sales (including devs themselves). I have a theory that it got bundled with something people actually wanted to play, but it's anyone's guess and maybe there were multiple factors involved. Thus, I would refrain from using it as an example to prove anything.

 

[GabrielMP_19]

I really dislike the aesthetics of the game and RTwP makes me extremely suspicious, so I'll waiting for more news. It could be an interesting game if well done. Will it be well done? Yeah, not so sure about that...

 

[Vault Dweller]

Nobody knows why there was such a huge difference in sales (including devs themselves).

https://www.polygon.com/2013/1/2/38...ends-with-2-65-million-in-sales-10-million-to
^ 400,000 copies sold in a bundle, which is quite a lot. As for the rest, here is how I see it. Every game's playerbase can be split into 4 categories:

- loved it, can't wait to get more, aka the core supporters
- kinda liked it but [insert reason]
- meh
- it's shit!

So when considering a sequel one must look at the ratio of core supporters and people with very minor grievances (i.e. not the entire 'kinda liked it' group). Some games have a very high ratio, other very low even if the overall rating is high. I doubt that many people who played LoG were dying for a sequel.

I think LoG got meaty media coverage only after it turned out to be such a shocking commercial success, not before.

http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/legend-of-grimrock

It was released in April 2012 and got glowing reviews in April-May (when it matters the most) not 6 months later.

Your second point is wholly unconvincing to me. First, your rating of LoG1 subjective - I personally think LoG1 is a case of pupil surpassing all its teachers - second, DM2 is better to be compared to LoG2 and third, you'd only pass on LoG sequel if you disliked the game and you only disliked the game if you realized you don't really love dungeon crawlers anymore, not because LoG1 is a terrible game.

It's too simple (see above). People may like a game overall but not enough to buy a sequel. Not because they don't like the genre but because they had enough of this particular design. I love dungeon crawlers, love Dungeon Master, but LoG fell short and didn't come close to "surpassing all its teachers". The only reason I bought the sequel was the praise it was getting on the Codex and was pleasantly surprised. After playing it I would buy LoG3 on release at full price.

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

its RTwP so its gonna be a chore to play. Meh.

 

[hivemind]

people was hooked at "Pathfinder CRPG"

they should be gassed

 

[HeatEXTEND]

I wonder how many people was hooked at "Pathfinder CRPG" and "Chris Avellone" before all the details like being RTWP start rolling in and extinguishing all hope.

BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAHAAA

 

[commie]

Nobody knows why there was such a huge difference in sales (including devs themselves).

https://www.polygon.com/2013/1/2/38...ends-with-2-65-million-in-sales-10-million-to
^ 400,000 copies sold in a bundle, which is quite a lot. As for the rest, here is how I see it. Every game's playerbase can be split into 4 categories:

- loved it, can't wait to get more, aka the core supporters
- kinda liked it but [insert reason]
- meh
- it's shit!

So when considering a sequel one must look at the ratio of core supporters and people with very minor grievances (i.e. not the entire 'kinda liked it' group). Some games have a very high ratio, other very low even if the overall rating is high. I doubt that many people who played LoG were dying for a sequel.

I would add the fact that only 64% actually even played the game, at least according to SteamSpy, suggests a whole lot of Bundle purchases that were redeemed but never actually even played, so there's 300k 'players' just there. From the 600k which actually played it, it would be breakdown like you say and a lot of those must have thought it was 'meh' or 'shit' since the second game sold under 400k. It was bundled as well and has even worse played rate of just 54% which implies that they are most likely the bundle orders, leaving less than 200k people at best that would have bought this either as fans of the first game or those curious to give it a go. So I'd say that under 200k of the original million that got the game actually found it compelling enough to go for the sequel which might not really be a bad thing but the actual natural size of the audience for this type of niche game and the devs just got incredibly lucky with the first game to sell two or three times that when new, not even including the later bundle scraps which weren't redeemed anyway.

 

[vonAchdorf]

Wasn't the PoE2 figstarter quite successful, especially considering the criticism of PoE by parts of the core fanbase and the obscure crowd funding platform? The brand seems to dodge the KS fatigue.

 

[commie]

Wasn't the PoE2 figstarter quite successful, especially considering the criticism of PoE by parts of the core fanbase and the obscure crowd funding platform? The brand seems to dodge the KS fatigue.

PoE was good though.

 

[ArchAngel]

Wasn't the PoE2 figstarter quite successful, especially considering the criticism of PoE by parts of the core fanbase and the obscure crowd funding platform? The brand seems to dodge the KS fatigue.

Obsidian is a better known company.

 

[Delterius]

Wasn't the PoE2 figstarter quite successful, especially considering the criticism of PoE by parts of the core fanbase and the obscure crowd funding platform? The brand seems to dodge the KS fatigue.

Well, of course. But wouldn't that mean the issue is how we've come to accept and expect sequels as an indication of success? Not everything needs or can accomodate a sequel. That doesn't mean its genre has no place in the market.

 

[Johannes]

Hate to break this to you, but this game will be RTwP.

Gonna be shit because of AoOs.

Irrelevant when you play as a Zen Archer.

 

[ArchAngel]

Hate to break this to you, but this game will be RTwP.

Gonna be shit because of AoOs.

Irrelevant when you play as a Zen Archer.

Irrelevant when you max your tumble like any good min maxer would

 

[jungl]

Not too bad news. A lot of recent wrpgs were worse then Russian shovelware. Maybe avellone and the russian hackers+kremlin elite can muster up something decent.