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Game News Russian studio Owlcat Games to develop Pathfinder CRPG, Chris Avellone onboard as narrative designer

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
If Chris Avellone is peanut butter, then pretty soon they'll have spread his writing cred so thinly over so many games that if each game is a piece of toast, then there will only be a one molecule-thin film of peanut paste on each piece of toast.

How many games have announced his involvement within the past two years? It seems like at least fifty. Is anyone else in the entire industry NOT a hack, or must he write every single story-driven game in some capacity?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,038
Tyranny shat on everything that made old school great and well old school. Now they found an escape goat a nostalgia bubble.

It's absolutely nostalgia tho. Just like Grimrock - first one sold what, a million? Mostly to 35-somethings who played crawlers in the early 90s and thought they still like them. So they bought LoG1 en masse and realized they really don't anymore. Didn't give a shit about LoG2 afterwards. Same for adventures or isometric RPGs. Initial enthusiasm turned into indifference. These genres never had the potential to sell in millions and never will.
I don't think it was nostalgia. There are two factors there:

- Both the Banner Saga and LoG have greatly benefited from being the first high-profile indie RPGs, getting tons of media coverage that the sequels didn't get.
- While I really liked LoG2, LoG1 was a very basic DM clone with less depth and features and a poorly designed character system on top of it. Dungeon Master 2 is a much better game in every way but the graphics. So it's possible that people played it and moved on, as only people who absolutely fucking loved a game would buy its sequel.
 

Lady_Error

█▓▒░ ░▒▓█
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On a site where a pure RT game wins the "Age of Incline" vote, people shouldn't really complain about RTwP.
 

*-*/\--/\~

Cipher
Joined
Jul 10, 2014
Messages
933
I don't really mind the generic, stylized look - d20 is pretty much the epitome of generic fantasy stuff and Pathfinder is a decent system (and the closest thing to TOEE 3.5 we may ever see). Fuck the RTwP shit though.
 

cvv

Arcane
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Mar 30, 2013
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18,548
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Kingdom of Bohemia
Codex+ Now Streaming!
Tyranny shat on everything that made old school great and well old school. Now they found an escape goat a nostalgia bubble.

It's absolutely nostalgia tho. Just like Grimrock - first one sold what, a million? Mostly to 35-somethings who played crawlers in the early 90s and thought they still like them. So they bought LoG1 en masse and realized they really don't anymore. Didn't give a shit about LoG2 afterwards. Same for adventures or isometric RPGs. Initial enthusiasm turned into indifference. These genres never had the potential to sell in millions and never will.
I don't think it was nostalgia. There are two factors there:

- Both the Banner Saga and LoG have greatly benefited from being the first high-profile indie RPGs, getting tons of media coverage that the sequels didn't get.
- While I really liked LoG2, LoG1 was a very basic DM clone with less depth and features and a poorly designed character system on top of it. Dungeon Master 2 is a much better game in every way but the graphics. So it's possible that people played it and moved on, as only people who absolutely fucking loved a game would buy its sequel.

I think LoG got meaty media coverage only after it turned out to be such a shocking commercial success, not before. Your second point is wholly unconvincing to me. First, your rating of LoG1 subjective - I personally think LoG1 is a case of pupil surpassing all its teachers - second, DM2 is better to be compared to LoG2 and third, you'd only pass on LoG sequel if you disliked the game and you only disliked the game if you realized you don't really love dungeon crawlers anymore, not because LoG1 is a terrible game.
 

l3loodAngel

Proud INTJ
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Edgy
Joined
Nov 19, 2010
Messages
1,452
Tyranny shat on everything that made old school great and well old school. Now they found an escape goat a nostalgia bubble.

It's absolutely nostalgia tho. Just like Grimrock - first one sold what, a million? Mostly to 35-somethings who played crawlers in the early 90s and thought they still like them. So they bought LoG1 en masse and realized they really don't anymore. Didn't give a shit about LoG2 afterwards. Same for adventures or isometric RPGs. Initial enthusiasm turned into indifference. These genres never had the potential to sell in millions and never will.
I don't think it was nostalgia. There are two factors there:

- Both the Banner Saga and LoG have greatly benefited from being the first high-profile indie RPGs, getting tons of media coverage that the sequels didn't get.
- While I really liked LoG2, LoG1 was a very basic DM clone with less depth and features and a poorly designed character system on top of it. Dungeon Master 2 is a much better game in every way but the graphics. So it's possible that people played it and moved on, as only people who absolutely fucking loved a game would buy its sequel.

I think LoG got meaty media coverage only after it turned out to be such a shocking commercial success, not before. Your second point is wholly unconvincing to me. First, your rating of LoG1 subjective - I personally think LoG1 is a case of pupil surpassing all its teachers - second, DM2 is better to be compared to LoG2 and third, you'd only pass on LoG sequel if you disliked the game and you only disliked the game if you realized you don't really love dungeon crawlers anymore, not because LoG1 is a terrible game.
Nobody knows why there was such a huge difference in sales (including devs themselves). I have a theory that it got bundled with something people actually wanted to play, but it's anyone's guess and maybe there were multiple factors involved. Thus, I would refrain from using it as an example to prove anything.
 

GabrielMP_19

Novice
Joined
May 16, 2017
Messages
2
I really dislike the aesthetics of the game and RTwP makes me extremely suspicious, so I'll waiting for more news. It could be an interesting game if well done. Will it be well done? Yeah, not so sure about that...
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,038
Nobody knows why there was such a huge difference in sales (including devs themselves).
https://www.polygon.com/2013/1/2/38...ends-with-2-65-million-in-sales-10-million-to
^ 400,000 copies sold in a bundle, which is quite a lot. As for the rest, here is how I see it. Every game's playerbase can be split into 4 categories:

- loved it, can't wait to get more, aka the core supporters
- kinda liked it but [insert reason]
- meh
- it's shit!

So when considering a sequel one must look at the ratio of core supporters and people with very minor grievances (i.e. not the entire 'kinda liked it' group). Some games have a very high ratio, other very low even if the overall rating is high. I doubt that many people who played LoG were dying for a sequel.

I think LoG got meaty media coverage only after it turned out to be such a shocking commercial success, not before.
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/legend-of-grimrock

It was released in April 2012 and got glowing reviews in April-May (when it matters the most) not 6 months later.

Your second point is wholly unconvincing to me. First, your rating of LoG1 subjective - I personally think LoG1 is a case of pupil surpassing all its teachers - second, DM2 is better to be compared to LoG2 and third, you'd only pass on LoG sequel if you disliked the game and you only disliked the game if you realized you don't really love dungeon crawlers anymore, not because LoG1 is a terrible game.
It's too simple (see above). People may like a game overall but not enough to buy a sequel. Not because they don't like the genre but because they had enough of this particular design. I love dungeon crawlers, love Dungeon Master, but LoG fell short and didn't come close to "surpassing all its teachers". The only reason I bought the sequel was the praise it was getting on the Codex and was pleasantly surprised. After playing it I would buy LoG3 on release at full price.
 

commie

The Last Marxist
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Where one can weep in peace
Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Nobody knows why there was such a huge difference in sales (including devs themselves).
https://www.polygon.com/2013/1/2/38...ends-with-2-65-million-in-sales-10-million-to
^ 400,000 copies sold in a bundle, which is quite a lot. As for the rest, here is how I see it. Every game's playerbase can be split into 4 categories:

- loved it, can't wait to get more, aka the core supporters
- kinda liked it but [insert reason]
- meh
- it's shit!

So when considering a sequel one must look at the ratio of core supporters and people with very minor grievances (i.e. not the entire 'kinda liked it' group). Some games have a very high ratio, other very low even if the overall rating is high. I doubt that many people who played LoG were dying for a sequel.

I would add the fact that only 64% actually even played the game, at least according to SteamSpy, suggests a whole lot of Bundle purchases that were redeemed but never actually even played, so there's 300k 'players' just there. From the 600k which actually played it, it would be breakdown like you say and a lot of those must have thought it was 'meh' or 'shit' since the second game sold under 400k. It was bundled as well and has even worse played rate of just 54% which implies that they are most likely the bundle orders, leaving less than 200k people at best that would have bought this either as fans of the first game or those curious to give it a go. So I'd say that under 200k of the original million that got the game actually found it compelling enough to go for the sequel which might not really be a bad thing but the actual natural size of the audience for this type of niche game and the devs just got incredibly lucky with the first game to sell two or three times that when new, not even including the later bundle scraps which weren't redeemed anyway.
 

vonAchdorf

Arcane
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
13,465
Wasn't the PoE2 figstarter quite successful, especially considering the criticism of PoE by parts of the core fanbase and the obscure crowd funding platform? The brand seems to dodge the KS fatigue.
 

commie

The Last Marxist
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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
Wasn't the PoE2 figstarter quite successful, especially considering the criticism of PoE by parts of the core fanbase and the obscure crowd funding platform? The brand seems to dodge the KS fatigue.

PoE was good though.

91658412.jpg
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
20,473
Wasn't the PoE2 figstarter quite successful, especially considering the criticism of PoE by parts of the core fanbase and the obscure crowd funding platform? The brand seems to dodge the KS fatigue.
Obsidian is a better known company.
 

Delterius

Arcane
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
15,956
Location
Entre a serra e o mar.
Wasn't the PoE2 figstarter quite successful, especially considering the criticism of PoE by parts of the core fanbase and the obscure crowd funding platform? The brand seems to dodge the KS fatigue.
Well, of course. But wouldn't that mean the issue is how we've come to accept and expect sequels as an indication of success? Not everything needs or can accomodate a sequel. That doesn't mean its genre has no place in the market.
 

jungl

Augur
Joined
Mar 30, 2016
Messages
1,438
Not too bad news. A lot of recent wrpgs were worse then Russian shovelware. Maybe avellone and the russian hackers+kremlin elite can muster up something decent.
 

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