Vapourware Scam Citizen - Only people with too much money can become StarCitizens! WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?

[Bradylama]

As Bradylama has since learned (or not; it's difficult for him), an exciting list of features can turn out to be a mile wide and an inch deep. The same also applies to Star Citizen, of course.

I don't get it.

I'm not going to drag this exchange out any longer than it needs to be, so let me clarify that E:D is the only game I've been playing consistently over the last month so I have no clue what you're driving at. Do you think I was disappointed in it? It's one of the few things we're both in the same page on.

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

Blaine likes to show how he's clearly superior to everyone else, nothing new really... buuuuut I do expect him to man the fuck up and say that I called the pay to win bullshit of the game over a year ago... and he and the rest of the fanboys barked me down hard since I was clearly "bashing" Star Citizen for no apparent reason. Well, who's laughing now? This was like that thing Ess Vee was talking about. Suck it down.

PS. Give me a free ship as compensation and I'll forgive you.

Spoiler

As I said way back when: I wish it'd turn out differently, so this sucks just as much for me as it does for you. But don't let others know that or they'll think I'm not a nasty troll.

 

[Blaine]

One of the reasons I believe I'm superior in this case is because idiots read me write, "Pay to win is a serious concern, buy let's wait a while and watch how the situation develops before leaping to conclusions"; what your tiny brains actually hear is, "FUCK THE FUCKING HATERS, STAR CITIZEN IS THE BEST GAME EVER AND CAN'T POSSIBLY BE PAY-TO-WIN!".

Not to mention that we really still don't actually know that the game will pay-to-win by any reasonable definition of the term, given the context. A lot still depends on factors such as how quickly players can earn credits in-game. I cashed out for a variety of reasons well beyond the scope of pay-to-win worries.

Please continue your premature and misguided attempt to make me eat crow, though. I'll have the fat stack of Benjamins I made off this game on hand in case you make me cry and I need something to wipe the tears away.

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

You're still so very edgy, Blaine. It makes me think that you have a position at the local razor blade factory and if that's the case: Give me the brand name because those razors are clearly quality fucking razors.

... and telling people how stupid they are constantly doesn't make you seem more intelligent, it just makes you seem like Kingcomrade. You may want to ask him if he's got a position open at the "Cognitive Elite HQ".

 

[Blaine]

I do enjoy telling people they're stupid when they've objectively, unequivocally demonstrated stupid behavior. It's one of life's greatest joys, and the purpose is to entertain myself and stroke my own ego, which I've never needed anyone's help with. Whether or not I've failed to convince people who already have it in for me that I'm really smart is immaterial. Your opinion doesn't matter, and neither does your feedback.

KC calls people stupid whenever they disagree with him in any way, which is something I actually don't do, unless someone claims to dislike Fallout or UnderRail. It's only when you resort to cognitive bias or willful misrepresentation of my opinion that I start calling you stupid—because it is.

 

[Stereotypical Villain]

No, you do it because you need to devalue others to justify your own flaws, which is why you'd fit perfectly into the world of the SJWs since their modus operandi also revolves around devaluing others for their own sake.

Or if I'm to provide a better example: Bradylama may be a fool but at least he's not somebody who nearly everyone would be disgusted to be around if push comes to shove. You on the other hand probably are, or you puff up your chest online to hide from the fact that you will never be that universal bad ass that you so desperately seek to prove yourself as whilst here in the arena that matters the most: Real life. (Or as an alternative to the second theory: You puff your chest up online to blow off steam, and god knows we've all done that at one point or another)

As for me? Everything I say is tongue in cheek which doesn't sit well with super-serious people. Not giving a hoot is the best thing ever and you'd probably be a whole lot less miserable if you cooled your heels some more. I used to be in a similar place as you, so trust me on that one.

To sum it up: Still love ya loads, bro. Now give me that free ship.

Spoiler

Wanna continue? Go ahead and shoot me a message, I don't mind it.

 

[Blaine]

No, you do it because you need to devalue others

It's probably blissful to be this clueless.

 

[Bradylama]

Bradylama may be a fool

Baby, you don't even know the half of it.

 

[Whiran]

The persistent universe I expect would be the ultimate sandbox mmo that puts all the wow/everquest clones to shame. Flying, exploring, mining, salvaging, etc all in first person with a selection of fully modeled ships suited for each role. Just imagine Alien Isolation except you arent confined to running around a series of levels and are free to go off on a spaceship and do whatever the hell you want in that universe. Thats what they are going for and what I expect.
You cant explore whole planets but they plan to have around 400 cities/stations you can visit spread across the star systems.

Be prepared to be disappointed.

 

[Blaine]

An exciting list of features, yet it could all turn out to be a mile wide and an inch deep.

...Like Bradylama having sex, hypothetically speaking of course.

 

[Disgruntled]

Be prepared to be disappointed.

Im prepared as much as the next guy, otherwise I wouldnt consider cashing out. The thing about this project is that they might fall short due to natural development issues as opposed to frustrating compromises and letdowns from publisher meddling.
Most of the other ingredients are in place: hundreds of devs, projected 100m budget, an ambitious leader, flexible deadlines.

If they can just get past engine constraints and Robert's management quirks, the dream is very much achievable.

 

[Norfleet]

And yet think of all the MOOLAH you can get from cashing out. TAKE THE MONEY. MONEY IS GOOD!

Is there seriously any realistic way that what you're holding should be worth a thousand bucks or more? If the package you're holding is REALLY worth that much, the game is probably so ludicrously pay-to-win that you don't want any part of it anyway. TAKE THE MONEY!

The persistent universe I expect would be the ultimate sandbox mmo that puts all the wow/everquest clones to shame. Flying, exploring, mining, salvaging, etc all in first person with a selection of fully modeled ships suited for each role.

The beauty of the sandbox is inevitably ruined when you realize it is actually the litterbox for the cat that is Goonswarm, and there is nothing for you except lots and lots of buried cat shit.

 

[Disgruntled]

And yet think of all the MOOLAH you can get from cashing out. TAKE THE MONEY. MONEY IS GOOD!

Is there seriously any realistic way that what you're holding should be worth a thousand bucks or more? If the package you're holding is REALLY worth that much, the game is probably so ludicrously pay-to-win that you don't want any part of it anyway. TAKE THE MONEY!

The persistent universe I expect would be the ultimate sandbox mmo that puts all the wow/everquest clones to shame. Flying, exploring, mining, salvaging, etc all in first person with a selection of fully modeled ships suited for each role.

The beauty of the sandbox is inevitably ruined when you realize it is actually the litterbox for the cat that is Goonswarm, and there is nothing for you except lots and lots of buried cat shit.

I dont have that much in it, only around $700. Of course, if I had the foresight and balls to get an IdrisM early on to resell it, id have done it. Are the packages worth that much? Its hard to tell to be honest. Chris has been wishy-washy on grinding, he claims not to like it but all things point to it being in the game to balance the economy. Would that make it horribly p2w? probably, but if the game hits its marks I would still enjoy it. There is enough space and npcs planned to avoid running into the bigger whales 24/7.
Which brings us to the Goon issue or whatever other org swings its dick around, It will not be an issue based on the instancing system and effort it takes to 'control' even 1 lawless system. There wont be any permanent specific gate locations to camp either.

Everything hinges on how good the game will be. Right now its not good enough, too penny-pinching and a waste of money. But they have plenty of time and features with which to redeem themselves. Such as this player controlled wormhole travel

 

[Bradylama]

Sorry I'm new to this, what's the gimbaling system that Blaine refers to?

When the player moves the mouse cursor, the ship's forward-facing guns (if they're gimbaled; some are fixed, but guess which ones people prefer?) swivel and rotate to follow the cursor on a nearly 1:1 to basis.

In other words, you put the mouse pointer over a target and press the fire button.

This is fine in first-person shooters. It is the opposite of fine in a space combat simulation game.

why is this bad, exactly?

It eliminates the need to be able to maneuver your ship with some skill and ends up becoming a free-floating rail shooter. All of the features they've been hawking up won't matter when at the end of the day, you can still just mouselook and shoot down all enemies.

Maybe if gimballs could be tied to a head tracker, that would be a real gamechanger in terms of your ability to both fly and aim your weapons. Even so, it would end up being a very expensive control scheme just to play this game as if it were a space sim and not a shooting gallery.

 

[Makabb]

And yet think of all the MOOLAH you can get from cashing out. TAKE THE MONEY. MONEY IS GOOD!

Is there seriously any realistic way that what you're holding should be worth a thousand bucks or more? If the package you're holding is REALLY worth that much, the game is probably so ludicrously pay-to-win that you don't want any part of it anyway. TAKE THE MONEY!

The persistent universe I expect would be the ultimate sandbox mmo that puts all the wow/everquest clones to shame. Flying, exploring, mining, salvaging, etc all in first person with a selection of fully modeled ships suited for each role.

The beauty of the sandbox is inevitably ruined when you realize it is actually the litterbox for the cat that is Goonswarm, and there is nothing for you except lots and lots of buried cat shit.

I dont have that much in it, only around $700. Of course, if I had the foresight and balls to get an IdrisM early on to resell it, id have done it. Are the packages worth that much? Its hard to tell to be honest. Chris has been wishy-washy on grinding, he claims not to like it but all things point to it being in the game to balance the economy. Would that make it horribly p2w? probably, but if the game hits its marks I would still enjoy it. There is enough space and npcs planned to avoid running into the bigger whales 24/7.
Which brings us to the Goon issue or whatever other org swings its dick around, It will not be an issue based on the instancing system and effort it takes to 'control' even 1 lawless system. There wont be any permanent specific gate locations to camp either.

Everything hinges on how good the game will be. Right now its not good enough, too penny-pinching and a waste of money. But they have plenty of time and features with which to redeem themselves. Such as this player controlled wormhole travel

i see they have been watchin interstellar



How long star citizen is now in development 3- 4 years ?

 

[Norfleet]

When the player moves the mouse cursor, the ship's forward-facing guns (if they're gimbaled; some are fixed, but guess which ones people prefer?) swivel and rotate to follow the cursor on a nearly 1:1 to basis.

I don't see the problem with that, although it depends on how they balance it. Obviously, fixed-mounted guns should pack greater wallop.

 

[Drax]

I don't get this whinning.
It's a futuristic space-combat simulator, why the fuck wouldn't there be gimballed guns controlled directly by the pilot???
Why would anyone design such a nerfed craft!?

 

[Mortmal]

I don't get this whinning.
It's a futuristic space-combat simulator, why the fuck wouldn't there be gimballed guns controlled directly by the pilot???
Why would anyone design such a nerfed craft!?

In a futuristic space combat simulator, why would we even need a pilot....

 

[Drax]

In a futuristic space combat simulator, why would we even need a pilot....

Agreed, most shit would be done by AI.

i think the point, as I understood it, is that it's not really a space sim at all: it's space dogfighting, which gimballing fucks up

Good point.
But, still, it seems like a bit of an overreaction to me... Since you need to actually fly the damn thing, it's not like you're a Borg cube, firing in every direction...

 

[Bradylama]

I don't get this whinning.
It's a futuristic space-combat simulator, why the fuck wouldn't there be gimballed guns controlled directly by the pilot???
Why would anyone design such a nerfed craft!?

i think the point, as I understood it, is that it's not really a space sim at all: it's space dogfighting, which gimballing fucks up
is that it, Bradylama ?

Yes, that's exactly it. There's no real opportunity for a dog fight, because you're mostly just pointing and clicking at trash enemies.

Now I haven't played since the earliest version of Arena Commander so something may have changed. But based on the lack of indication of any positive change to gimballing in this thread, I doubt it.

Now it's certainly possible to balance this out with an input lag on gimballs, but that might make combat less popamole and shrink the player base.

 

[Bradylama]

I should think a more accurate space sim would involve two wyrmlords with computers firing torpedoes at one another across hundreds of thousands of kilometers of empty space, which, exciting as it sounds, likely appeals to an audience different than that of star citizen. i see thern how the complaint about gimballing becomes valid

"Accuracy" or "realism" has nothing to do with the complaints about the way gimballs work. To put it in perspective, it's like Freelancer or Strike Suit Zero except you're playing from the cockpit instead of a functional 3rd Person view. I know this kind of shooter combat is cool for a lot of people, but I just don't care for it in what's nominally a space sim. The biggest problem with the way the gimballs work is that they put the advantage in the hands of mouse & keyboard users, which makes a joystick for a space sim absolutely worthless. Ideally you'd have something which is control setup neutral like in ED, where the gimballs track independently of the pilot's input, with just enough inaccuracy to make fixed weapons worthwhile.

 

[tuluse]

I think there is another problem that would make the game boring even if all control methods were equal. Super quick precision aim is interesting in Quake because there is stuff to hide behind and you don't know where your enemy is at all times. Space is well space. There's no cover, no ambushes. What makes the combat interesting is trying to maneuver your ship into an ideal attack vector while your opponent does the same.

When the "ideal attack vector" is just "opponent is on the screen", it removes a good portion of what makes the game interesting and fun.

/signed someone who hasn't actually played Star Citizen

 

[omega21]

I haven't played Arena Commander, but surely there are multiple ways to resolve the gimbal situation. Making them fire only within a small cone for one.

 

[J_C]

I haven't played Arena Commander, but surely there are multiple ways to resolve the gimbal situation. Making them fire only within a small cone for one.

Yep, just like in Elite. They only fire in a cone, and they are not as precise as fixed ones.

 

[DarkUnderlord]

Well, I posted in this thread a while back that I was going to be selling off the rest of my ships. The reason (or rather, the straw that broke the camel's back) is that CIG decided to sell Javelin destroyers for $2,500 a pop, after stating in 2012 that the Idris would be the largest ship available for purchase by backers. They also stated that the Idris itself would never be sold again after the initial campaign, a statement they reneged on not just once, but twice. They've reneged on other statements as well.

I will sell you a big ship in Blackspace for $2,500 if you like, to make you feel better. You'll even actually be able to fly it¹!

¹Eventually.