Vapourware Scam Citizen - Only people with too much money can become StarCitizens! WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?

[Runciter]

Roberts has explained it; we'll be getting what are effectively two separate games using the same data and engine: Squadron 42 is going to be the single-player (or co-op multiplayer) campaign and there will also be a Privateer-like MMO universe. Completing the single player campaign may have an effect on your character in the MMO universe (may give you citizenship, at least), but is otherwise going to be isolated.

To be honest, I don't know how they can manage to pull this off without either side of the game suffering for it. I have a feeling that the MMO part is Roberts's greater ambition and the budget is relatively low (in past interviews Roberts suggested a total figure of around $20e6), so I don't expect anything like WC4 in terms of writing and atmosphere, but I'm still keeping my fingers crossed. It already looks like the MMO part will suffer from the money shop and the lack of subscription fees and I am irritated by the flood of pledge rewards that will put players on an uneven level from the start. Let's just wait and see.

 

[IDtenT]

Like I pointed out earlier, the MMO is only at the $5 Million tier.

 

[Hellraiser]

Well the main site is down again, did they get interviewed somewhere or something causing an influx of traffic?

 

[Runciter]

Like I pointed out earlier, the MMO is only at the $5 Million tier.

You're wrong on this point. I can't be bothered to find the source, but Roberts has said he's doing all of it anyway and the only difference that crowdfunding can make is how soon he'll deliver. He has said that he's mainly funded by private investors and the crowdfunding was part of the deal he'd made with them, which required him to prove that there is demand for a game like Star Citizen by raising $2M.

I've spent quite a bit of time sifting through their news posts, their forum, interviews Roberts has given on various sites and his GDC presentation. Getting accurate information about what he's really doing has been a nightmare.

 

[IDtenT]

Like I pointed out earlier, the MMO is only at the $5 Million tier.

You're wrong on this point. I can't be bothered to find the source, but Roberts has said he's doing all of it anyway and the only difference that crowdfunding can make is how soon he'll deliver. He has said that he's mainly funded by private investors and the crowdfunding was part of the deal he'd made with them, which required him to prove that there is demand for a game like Star Citizen by raising $2M.

I've spent quite a bit of time sifting through their news posts, their forum, interviews Roberts has given on various sites and his GDC presentation. Getting accurate information about what he's really doing has been a nightmare.

He might still do the MMO, but it wouldn't be part of the reward system. It's what the $5 Million tier is all about. Unless he even managed to fuck up in describing his stretch goals.

 

[Jasede]

Really digging this.

 

[J_C]

. It already looks like the MMO part will suffer fromthe lack of subscription fees

What?

 

[Runciter]

. It already looks like the MMO part will suffer fromthe lack of subscription fees

What?

There is going to be a voluntary in-game money exchange where you can buy credits for real currency. If nobody uses it, they will close the servers down for lack of funding. If people use it, you'll have to use it too, otherwise you will be at a disadvantage. In other words: mandatory pay to win.

 

[Destroid]

Like I pointed out earlier, the MMO is only at the $5 Million tier.

You're wrong on this point. I can't be bothered to find the source, but Roberts has said he's doing all of it anyway and the only difference that crowdfunding can make is how soon he'll deliver. He has said that he's mainly funded by private investors and the crowdfunding was part of the deal he'd made with them, which required him to prove that there is demand for a game like Star Citizen by raising $2M.

I've spent quite a bit of time sifting through their news posts, their forum, interviews Roberts has given on various sites and his GDC presentation. Getting accurate information about what he's really doing has been a nightmare.

That explains why he's got such great graphics already. Unfortunately it really cheapens the whole crowdfunding thing, his prime responsibilities on this project are to his investors, not his backers.

 

[J_C]

. It already looks like the MMO part will suffer fromthe lack of subscription fees

What?

There is going to be a voluntary in-game money exchange where you can buy credits for real currency. If nobody uses it, they will close the servers down for lack of funding. If people use it, you'll have to use it too, otherwise you will be at a disadvantage. In other words: mandatory pay to win.

I doubt that they will screw up that bad. How do you know that there will be an in-game money exchange? Was it in the updates?

 

[Runciter]

I doubt that they will screw up that bad. How do you know that there will be an in-game money exchange? Was it in the updates?

It's been stated in several places, see here for example: Reddit AMA source.

 

[J_C]

Meh, they stated that they will limit the ammount you can buy a month. I don't care really. People will use it, if they want to spoil the game for themselves, let them do it. As for gaining an adventage, I don't want to play PVP (I never liked that in MMOs), so it really doesn't affect me.

 

[IDtenT]

It depends on what it is. As long as it doesn't lock out content there is nothing wrong with F2P. Keep it cosmetic and grind skips.

 

[Rane]

He might still do the MMO, but it wouldn't be part of the reward system. It's what the $5 Million tier is all about. Unless he even managed to fuck up in describing his stretch goals.

The following stretch goal was moved from its original spot at $5 million to the $3 million tier:

Star Citizens will receive access to the Wing Commander/Star Citizen universe for on-line persistent play (30 months)

 

[Runciter]

It depends on what it is. As long as it doesn't lock out content there is nothing wrong with F2P. Keep it cosmetic and grind skips.

Sure, there's nothing wrong with F2P, as long as you pay. It's not a rat race at all if you're in the top paying bracket. You don't get frustrated at all if you get all the best stuff with no effort. And best of all, it's free to play!

He might still do the MMO, but it wouldn't be part of the reward system. It's what the $5 Million tier is all about. Unless he even managed to fuck up in describing his stretch goals.

The following stretch goal was moved from its original spot at $5 million to the $3 million tier:

Star Citizens will receive access to the Wing Commander/Star Citizen universe for on-line persistent play (30 months)

This thread needs some clarification, so I will just quote http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/draft-faq/:

Can you explain the stretch goals?

The purpose of the higher stretch goals is to ensure that the game-as-described is finished in the two year time period. We intend to build the game that Chris Roberts described at GDC Online regardless, but without additional funding we are going to have to do it one piece at a time, starting with Squadron 42, rather than as a single larger production. (...)

 

[Jaesun]

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/meet-the-xian/

 

[Hellraiser]

http://www.robertsspaceindustries.com/meet-the-xian/

Just read that, they look like reptiles and they like shady back behind the scenes dealings. Chris forgot to add shape-shifting and controlling global banking/politics.

Forget I said anything, they may find out I know

 

[Destroid]

Meh, they stated that they will limit the ammount you can buy a month. I don't care really. People will use it, if they want to spoil the game for themselves, let them do it. As for gaining an adventage, I don't want to play PVP (I never liked that in MMOs), so it really doesn't affect me.

You might be upset if they design the game to be unpleasant if you don't pay, as is typical F2P modus operandi.

 

[J_C]

Meh, they stated that they will limit the ammount you can buy a month. I don't care really. People will use it, if they want to spoil the game for themselves, let them do it. As for gaining an adventage, I don't want to play PVP (I never liked that in MMOs), so it really doesn't affect me.

You might be upset if they design the game to be unpleasant if you don't pay, as is typical F2P modus operandi.

Upset is a mild word for that if they design the game that way. I hope they won't do that.

 

[Kane]

expecting lots of emotional engagements from these

 

[Blaine]

You might be upset if they design the game to be unpleasant if you don't pay, as is typical F2P modus operandi.

That's not actually typical these days with Western F2P games, at least not in my experience. Time was, I was as vociferously anti-F2P as they come... but I've since played a few of them, such as Tribes: Ascend, and the F2P models aren't that terrible. It's often the case that spending zero dollars can lead to a somewhat annoying experience, but if you pay a reasonable amount, you'll be fine. I spent $50 on Tribes: Ascend, for example, and had unlocked everything in the entire game after 700+ hours of play (it's not necessary to unlock everything to enjoy the game). $50 is a pittance for a game that offers hundreds of hours of enjoyment.

I'd still much prefer no F2P at all, but sometimes it works out well enough.

 

[Zarniwoop]

I pledged some Kwa Dorra to this, but only the cheapest tier that allows me to get the game. The fact that they're blatantly lying on the Kickstarter campaign already doesn't fill me with too much enthusiasm though.

No Pay-to-win!!!!!!1111oneoneoneeleven

Pledge A ZILLION BUX to start the game with the epic, extreme, mega-ultracarrier and $$$$$$ in your account

 

[Blaine]

I detest taking the role of an apologist, especially since I'm not the biggest fan of premium in-game content myself, but I doubt they're "blatantly lying" about anything. They know perfectly well what's on the Kickstarter; they simply don't consider the premium ships to be pay-to-win, because although you can purchase them for real-life currency, the presumption is that they won't be instant win buttons. Believe me, some "free-to-play" games do indeed have purchasable instant win buttons.

Not everything that can be purchased in a game for real money qualifies as "pay-to-win." Consider this:

We’re working on concept art right now that will show you the different levels of ships! For now, imagine the sort of ship advancement you encounered in Privateer or Freelancer, with the Aurora being the basic ship and others being improved or more specialized craft. The top-of-the-line ship in our pledge campaign is the RSI Constellation, which is a multi-person craft that includes a turret and a smaller fighter that can be manned by your friends!

If Star Citizen turns out to be a biggest-ship-always-wins affair, then it will fail. Wing Commander wasn't that way, and I don't think Star Citizen will be, either. In fact, the most basic fighter, in the hands of a skilled pilot, could take out two technically superior fighters. For the sake of argument, let's say the Constellation allows a pilot, a copilot, a turret gunner, and the on-board fighter pilot. If the game is made properly, then three or four Aurora (possibly fewer, or even just one, depending on player skill) will have even odds against a Constellation.

I also strongly suspect the Constellation will be a hull with either basic equipment or empty equipment hardpoints. Thus, even if it's a fancy ship, you won't be handed the most exotic weaponry and defense technology to use with it right away.

...we will NEVER sell anything that can’t be acquired through honest (and fun!) gameplay.

...your success in combat is going to depend as much on your skill with a space fighter as it will with your ship upgrades and your pocket book.

Those lying bastards.

 

[Zarniwoop]

I guess you just missed the part where you get more in-game money too, then. Maybe not insta-win but it's still a big advantage. Possibly to be used to buy said exotic weapons. The only MMO-type game I've seen that has paid content that doesn't essentially make you unbeatable vs free players is Star Trek Online, that's the only one where F2P is worth it. Possibly Champions as well since I understand it's the same thing but only with superheroes instead of IN SPAAAACE!

I guess we'll have to wait a year for the alpha to see.

 

[Blaine]

I guess you just missed the part where you get more in-game money too, then. Maybe not insta-win but it's still a big advantage. Possibly to be used to buy said exotic weapons. The only MMO-type game I've seen that has paid content that doesn't essentially make you unbeatable vs free players is Star Trek Online, that's the only one where F2P is worth it. Possibly Champions as well since I understand it's the same thing but only with superheroes instead of IN SPAAAACE!

I didn't miss that part, and I'm not a huge fan of it, but I do appreciate that there'll be a monthly cap on how much someone can buy.

The elephant in the room here as far as real-money transactions go is EVE Online. EVE players can pay for subscription time vouchers, which in turn can be activated in-game to credit your account with one month of subscription time. These can be sold to other players for in-game money. It is also possible for players to auction off their veteran pilots for in-game money (in EVE, pilots have skills that accrue over real-life months and years).

It is thus possible for an inexperienced player to purchase old and highly skilled pilots for himself, purchase expensive high-end ships for those pilots, and purchase exotic modules for those ships, all with what amounts to real-life money. These players are commonly known as loot piñatas, and we all love them.

Granted someone has to give up these assets in order for the purchaser to buy them, but nevertheless the end effect on new players as a whole is just the same: Those who spend can have more stuff. But stuff matters not at all in EVE, only experience, knowledge, connections and player skill. If Star Citizen isn't like that, it probably won't be worth playing.