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Vapourware Scam Citizen - Only people with too much money can become StarCitizens! WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
New update is up. Have to say, this is a retarded one. You can vote about which aspect of the game do you like more: Squadron 42 (single player) or Star Citizen (MMO)? And you can vote by adding 5 dollar to your pledge and choosing Squadron 42 or Star citizen logo, which will be displayed on your ship.

Wow, buying a logo on a ship for 5 dollars. They are tempting me...NOT!
 

Runciter

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Messages
188
New update is up. Have to say, this is a retarded one. You can vote about which aspect of the game do you like more: Squadron 42 (single player) or Star Citizen (MMO)? And you can vote by adding 5 dollar to your pledge and choosing Squadron 42 or Star citizen logo, which will be displayed on your ship.

Wow, buying a logo on a ship for 5 dollars. They are tempting me...NOT!
It could be worse, it could be another one of those gameplay-affecting items like a ship, repair bot or credits. Really, ever since Star Citizen got its $2M, Roberts has been desperate to milk pledgers for more. I think he must have taken his Los Angeles experience to heart because he treats his audience like imbeciles: he bribes them with petty worthless stuff; he sets them against each other in a competition where whoever pays more will have a better start in the game; he doesn't state his stretch goals until he "unlocks" them; he sets up these schemes where he gives away prizes (some of them consisting of more imaginary items) for bringing in more pledges... in short, he's gaming people like hell in real life and the worst thing is that it seems to be working! He's waving these carrots on a string in the air and it's like they're the only thing people can see any more, they don't scrutinise him or where their money is going, they just jump at the vegetables and money falls out of their pockets.

I have lost a lot of respect for that guy and have lowered my pledge to the lowest level that gets you the game; he's got enough pledged and I don't think he deserves a penny more for the stunts he's been pulling off.
 

GreatPretender

Educated
Joined
Nov 1, 2012
Messages
190
3 mill hit

Star Citizen and the persistant galaxy is a go, this means all of base game is funded, next tiers seems to be just expanding stuff.
 

Misconnected

Savant
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
587
Every bigger pc game being a port from shitty console hardware sure does aggravate the whole issue, though.
Plus it means that there isn't that much AMD and NVidia can do about it, so pushing for insane resolutions is about the only real selling point for high-end GPUs.

I'm on the fence on this. One the one hand it's hard to imagine current game graphics wouldn't be incredibly much more advanced, if the hardware companies were setting the pace. On the other hand, I really enjoy that performance is a non-issue.

I'm far more annoyed by the other effects consoles have had on games.

New update is up. Have to say, this is a retarded one. You can vote about which aspect of the game do you like more: Squadron 42 (single player) or Star Citizen (MMO)? And you can vote by adding 5 dollar to your pledge and choosing Squadron 42 or Star citizen logo, which will be displayed on your ship.

Wow, buying a logo on a ship for 5 dollars. They are tempting me...NOT!

Someone please explain to me what the problem with this is.

The "Mr, Mr, Big Ship/Moar Gold/Sloppy Blow Job Just 5 Dolla" shit I can see two problems with, either one of which is enough to make me extremely sceptical and rather likely not to pledge (or in this case; withdraw my pledge, as I very well might).

But basically saying "I'm doing these things, and if you want to influence how I prioritise them, please tell me with money" seems perfectly reasonable for an at least partially crowd sourced project.
Likewise, combining "I pledged this much" bragging rights (or proof of small penis/mental illness, depending on how you look at it) with increasing the overall visual diversity in the game, seems to me like a really good idea (and as an added benefit, it lets me know who to grief).
 

Taxnomore

I'm a spicy fellow.
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Your wallet.
Codex 2013 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
I have only played WC3,4,5. These last days, I have been playing WC1 and my god, am I the only one who finds this game incredibly difficult ?

I managed to finish it, of course: but it was the bad ending. The wingmen are useless, the escort missions are ridiculously hard (ships blow up too easily). It is not criticism, I love the game and I'm currently on Secret Missions. But isn't it absolutely hard compared to modern games or even the later installments?
 

Aldebaran

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
Kurasawa 2 man... Kurasawa 2. Possibly the worst thing ever, and those responsible will pay for their crimes in the next life. Although it was a very good tutorial for the eject button.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
New update is up:

"Plus, more details about the FPS mode at $3.5 million and an update to it at $4 million! So please keep those pledges coming."

I'm seriously considering canceling my pledge. So having a written upade about something is a stretch goal now? 3,5 million? And an additional 500K to make an update to it (whatever that means)? I have a feeling that Chris Roberts is just milking the fans.
 

Runciter

Augur
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Jan 17, 2012
Messages
188
I ended up canceling mine too. I didn't like being treated like a mindless walking wallet and I didn't like that what I'd pledged money for is being pimped like a cheap whore.
 

bminorkey

Guest
I ended up canceling mine too. I didn't like being treated like a mindless walking wallet and I didn't like that what I'd pledged money for is being pimped like a cheap whore.

Want to give me a summary of why you think this way? I just discovered the project today, but it looks like it has waysomewhat more integrity than P:E.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
I cancelled my pledge because they give bullshit stretchgoals. 500K for a written update about an FPS mode? +5 dollar pledge just to vote about something? PE had more integrity because the stretchgoals were about putting extra stuff into the game. Here, stretchgoals are about telling us more info about the game. Info, what we should already know. The only thing Star Citizen has done better than PE, is having a techdemo, which was shown in the pitch video.
 

bminorkey

Guest
The thing is, those 500k aren't going into a written update or whatever. All the money is going into the game, but what it's gonna go to isn't particularly exciting (go explain to your customers why licensing a better environmental audio engine or developing tools to optimize multiplayer data management is crucial), so the devs make promises that are meant to give extra motivation to customers.

P:E stretchgoals were bad because they made big promises about what the devs are gonna add to the game when the game wasn't even designed. So we end up using the extra money on a 15 floor megadungeon and a new big city instead of spending it on the game as necessary. Two features that will either feel ridiculously out of place or constrain the game's design significantly so that they won't.
 

J_C

One Bit Studio
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Messages
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Project: Eternity Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath
"The thing is, those 500k aren't going into a written update or whatever. All the money is going into the game, but what it's gonna go to isn't particularly exciting (go explain to your customers why licensing a better environmental audio engine or developing tools to optimize multiplayer data management is crucial), so the devs make promises that are meant to give extra motivation to customers."

So just as I said, the stretchgoals are shit. They should explain better where the money goes, not offering a 2 paragraph update about a game mode.

As for PE:
a 15 floor megadungeon and a new big city instead of spending it on the game as necessary. Two features that will either feel ridiculously out of place or constrain the game's design significantly so that they won't.
You don't know that.
 

Runciter

Augur
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
188
I ended up canceling mine too. I didn't like being treated like a mindless walking wallet and I didn't like that what I'd pledged money for is being pimped like a cheap whore.

Want to give me a summary of why you think this way? I just discovered the project today, but it looks like it has waysomewhat more integrity than P:E.

The way these funding campaigns are supposed to work is that the developer should try to earn your trust and convince you that your money will go towards making a better game. Roberts seems to have forgotten all about that. So from the start there have been these problems:

1. Roberts has a reduced obligation towards pledge makers because he is mainly funded by some private investors and apparently he started the crowdfunding campaign so he could prove to them that there is demand for this kind of game.

2. If you pledge, you get permanent ownership of a ship, and the more you pay, the better the ship.

3. You will be able to buy in-game advancement with real currency.

These don't bode well, but you could still think pledging would be worth it regardless (especially before the campaign reached the funding target).

But then it all got into his head and the "I need your money to make the game you want" changed into "Give me your money and I will give you in-game stuff" and "Get other people to give me money and I will sign you up for a prize lottery". You may call that an additional incentive, I call that undermining the pledge maker-developer relationship. So what happened was:

4. On Kickstarter Roberts added a new pledge level at $5 for which he promises to give you some cosmetic in-game item. This is so low specifically to get people who originally pledged on the RSI website to make an additional pledge.

5. He also set new funding goals only for Kickstarter: he added a list with most items labeled "LOCKED" and only the first few revealed. Some of these items are in-game benefits like "a repair bot for all who pledged" and "500 credits for all who pledged".

6. He started the referral lottery where if you get new users to pledge, he will sign you up for a lottery with physical prizes.

These items are very one-sided: notice how Roberts is using his power to withhold or grant in-game priviledges to get you to give him your money; how he is spending his money, which he presumably gets from you, on a lottery (!), turning the funding campaign into some sort of game; and how he is hoping that you will forget the other side of the equation where he needs to justify the costs. In particular, it costs him nothing to give away virtual goods, so why should you give him money for them?

And if you look at his news posts, you can see that in them he is addressing them to the dumb masses. There is no talk of, say, the things that he gets asked about in interviews for gaming web sites, details of the development process, etc. They're for the most part only about in-game fiction and rules and about getting the funding figure up, which includes all the various schemes and bribe offers. They're missing all the information that a critically-thinking person would ask for. You can find a lot of it, but to get it you need to go through all these interviews and forum posts and Reddit threads.

So even though some of these things might happen in any crowdfunding project, to me it's clear that there is a trend here of selling out parts of the game and treating pledge makers like idiots. That's why I say he is pimping Star Citizen like a whore.
 

bminorkey

Guest
They should explain better where the money goes
You have a slight misunderstanding of how the process works. It's almost impossible to efficiently allocate extra budget without figuring out what that extra budget is. They're giving you the clearest roadmap they can with substantive new features every couple of million american bucks. Making promises you have to stick to is exactly what they shouldn't do.


You don't know that.
It's very hard to know something, but there's always experience and common sense to patch you up when you don't. Baldur's Gate II had one big city and no 15 floor megadungeon. BG II had a ready-made engine, a bigger budget and a longer development cycle. Don't be a dumbfuck and say the ideal way to spend P:E's budget is on two big cities and a megadungeon of almost unsurpassed proportions added as an afterthought.
 

Runciter

Augur
Joined
Jan 17, 2012
Messages
188
I ended up canceling mine too. I didn't like being treated like a mindless walking wallet and I didn't like that what I'd pledged money for is being pimped like a cheap whore.

Want to give me a summary of why you think this way? I just discovered the project today, but it looks like it has waysomewhat more integrity than P:E.
By the way, why is P:E lacking integrity?
 

bminorkey

Guest
Mostly for what I said up here. Stretchgoals were stupidly unrealistic. Or also 'highly desirable features that cost 1/10th of what we ask to implement but you won't have them if you don't pledge huheuheuheh', as if they have the game planned out well enough to decide what can (or more importantly, should) go in and what won't. It's a good project with a good team behind it, and I have my hopes up, but it will ultimately suffer from bad planning and management.

the horrible uncensored truth
I didn't know I promise I'm so sorry.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Get a load of all the whingeing and "wahh, pre-order canceled" nonsense in this thread. The problem here doesn't lie with Chris Roberts. Mainly, the problem lies with pledgers who will pay only the minimum amount necessary to secure a copy of the game—unless they're bribed with in-game incentives, physical tchotchkes, additional content updates, soundtracks, art books, and in-depth stretch goals. I'm absolutely certain Chris would be content to offer everyone the exact same rewards and dispense with the F2P model if gamers weren't such fucking Jews. I know for a fact half the people on this board have shed tears of nostalgia while reminiscing about the good old days, but when the good old days come knocking again, suddenly everyone nitpicks for six thousand fucking forum pages and is only willing to pay $10 apiece.

This shit right here is absolutely histrionic:

6. He started the referral lottery where if you get new users to pledge, he will sign you up for a lottery with physical prizes.

Chris Roberts said:
Before we started the campaign we had talked to Alienware, NVIDIA and Logitech, who were all very excited by what Star Citizen represented for PC gaming and were eager to help out with some free swag to give away with some of the pledge tiers. We thought it would be much more fun, and allow a wider range of the community to participate if everyone had the chance of winning the bad ass Alienware gaming rig, rather than bundling it with some custom $15,000 pledge level.

What better way to use the hardware than as an incentive prize for referrals? I couldn't be bothered to refer anyone before there was a prize, and I still can't be bothered. I was never going to win that hardware anyway, and I won't win it now. Who gives a fuck if someone else does? Again, you should have been referring people to Kickstarter/the RSI site to inform them and help fund the project, not for a reward. There are pledgers out there who will only do it for a reward, and that's asinine, but is it Chris's fault that he realizes such people exist?

The "worst" pledge incentives are still the same ones that have been around since the very beginning of the project: Permanent ships for high pledgers, and extra in-game money. None of this crap actually matters unless you're an entitled manchild or make a habit of comparing yourself to other players. As for the permanent ships, of course they're permanent, you twunts. A $250 pledge reward that gets blown up once and is gone forever would be completely retarded. Actually, it would be amazing and I would laugh heartily, but pissing off customers is generally a bad idea.

...How in the fuck have I been turned into a F2P/incentives apologist? I've finally been genuinely trolled by the Codex. Well, fuck you. This is Wing Commander and Chris Roberts, and if I could get $10,000 together in time (I can't, wouldn't happen until the end of the month), I'd pledge that and fly out to shake the man's hand. Now that's one incentive that's worth paying extra for.
 

Blaine

Cis-Het Oppressor
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
Hmm, now where have I seen Origin developers LARPing before?

lord_british2dupy.jpg


Ah yes.
 
Self-Ejected

BlitzKitchen

Self-Ejected
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Messages
2,879
Codex 2012
I canceled my pledge because quite frankly, there's always a chance Chris might fuck up. If it turns out to be what was promised after release, Steam sale it will be.
Hmm, I'm starting to have some doubts as well. And I agree, if it's good it deserves money after its completion. How do you cancel your pledge?
 

Morgoth

Ph.D. in World Saving
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Clogging the Multiverse with a Crowbar
I canceled my pledge because quite frankly, there's always a chance Chris might fuck up. If it turns out to be what was promised after release, Steam sale it will be.
Hmm, I'm starting to have some doubts as well. And I agree, if it's good it deserves money after its completion. How do you cancel your pledge?

Witch Kickstarter it's easy, with RIS you need to bombard them with Emails.
 

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