Vapourware Scam Citizen - Only people with too much money can become StarCitizens! WOULD YOU LIKE TO KNOW MORE?

[Gurkog]

Don't worry, it will be just another shitty space simulator with ships that handle like airplanes instead of 6-axis shooters and shitty fps sequences with plenty of cover-based popamole, because they couldn't figure out how to introduce cover-based shooting to dogfights in space.

 

[Blaine]

I'm honestly not sure whether you really don't understand what I'm saying, or if you're just taking a page out of J_C's book and suspending common sense to fellate your favourite game developer...

If you feel you've been misunderstood and aren't just here to speculate and casually bash the game, then I'll answer your post in as literal-minded a fashion as possible.

Also, this FPS boarding party shit sounds like it has potential to be really bad

It has the potential to be bad, certainly. However, I'll add that the same can be said of any planned feature for any in-development game. If the developers botch their work, then the feature will be bad.

not to mention a huge waste of development resources.

Chris Roberts feels that there's more than enough room on the feature list for boarding mechanics. The concept of boarding is fully integrated into the game, and some ships and upgrades are specifically designed to support boarding. It can certainly be argued that the resources are better spent elsewhere, although the feature list as it stands hardly seems to be missing anything.

Did backers ask him for this?

No. He's planned boarding mechanics from the very start, albeit as a $3.5m stretch goal. They weren't added at the explicit request of backers. However, the vast majority of backers and those who discuss the game seem pleased by their inclusion.

 

[Blaine]

Don't worry, it will be just another shitty space simulator with ships that handle like airplanes instead of 6-axis shooters and shitty fps sequences with plenty of cover-based popamole, because they couldn't figure out how to introduce cover-based shooting to dogfights in space.

Video from November of last year, when the game was barely more than a tech demo, demonstrating that Gurkog is completely wrong and hinting at the reason why I've grown impatient with the clueless shitposting going on in this thread, courtesy of people who know almost nothing about the game:

A short video of the AI of Star Citizen attacking and defending the Bengal Class Carrier. It demonstrates intelligent collision avoidance - a dense asteroid field, other space ships, including a large capital ship plus offensive and defensive roles.
Signup for Star Citizen at http://www.playstarcitizen.com/

NOTE: This is very early pre-pre Alpha. There was a bug with laser bolt speed in this build and they were incorrectly capped at a very low speed. That is not how they will behave in the game. But we thought the video was awesome enough to show you anyway!

I don't see any individually mappable thrusters that actually work, six degrees of freedom, and quasi-Newtonian physics... except I do, fancy that.

 

[Sranchammer]

That looks like Episode II!

 

[Blaine]

That looks like Episode II!

The lasers are placeholders, and buggy to boot, which is why I included the blurb.

 

[Sranchammer]

That looks like Episode II!

The lasers are placeholders, and buggy to boot, which is why I included the blurb.

Please don't interrupt my raging with truths.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Freelancer was basically Oblivion in space, except really pretty and with combat you could enjoy, maybe.

Freelancer was simple, sure, but it was still a pretty damn good time. Especially if you had some buddies and played it together in MP. I'd be happy if Freelancer showed up on Steam and GoG.

 

[Blaine]

ships that handle like airplanes instead of 6-axis shooters

herp

I just realized that that Hornet blew away Gurkog's "argument."

 

[Cowboy Moment]

For the record, I'm not negatively predisposed towards Star Citizen; I'm not a huge fan of these kinds of games and haven't backed the project, but a lot of it looks very cool, so I might buy it when it comes out, if I hear positive opinions around these parts.

Still, the FPS boarding mechanics seem like a tremendously bad idea. As much as Codex likes to sneer at Call of Duty, it takes a good amount of money and time to produce fun, smooth and polished shooting mechanics. This is especially true for multiplayer, where you can't mask your core mechanic deficiencies with enemy or level design, and doubly true for team shooters, where a lot, and I do mean a lot, can go wrong and result in an unplayable mess. It just feels like such a waste, to have this great engine and beautiful ship designs, and then to elect to spend nontrivial amounts of time and money on forgettable popamole.

I mean, I do understand why he wants to have it, but I doubt it's going to work. If you want the whole thing to be immersive, and immersion is clearly the whole point here, then you really need to cover your bases. I mean, how far is he going to take this idea? Will there be multiple weapons, and if so, how many? Will they be modular and allow different ammo types? Multiple types of grenades and mines? Other equipment like armor, riot shields, movement detectors, movement detector jammers? Will there be classes like medics or engineers? All this is shit these types of games often have. Then you have the fact that they need to design ship interiors as CS maps more or less, or boarding will be an exercise in frustration.

It seems to me like a good thing to think about once the game has shipped, and all the important mechanics (as in, the space combat) are working as intended. At launch, though, I will be extremely surprised if anyone actually enjoys boarding.

 

[Blaine]

Then you have the fact that they need to design ship interiors as CS maps more or less, or boarding will be an exercise in frustration.

The interiors on several of the larger ships are already done, so they'll be what they'll be. I don't doubt that boarding will be an exercise in frustration and awkwardness in some of the more cramped interiors, but (and this isn't a realism argument particularly, though it may seem like one) I don't think real marines invading an actual ship would have a relaxing and enjoyable time of it, either. It's the nature of the beast, isn't it?

Importantly, unlike your standard shooter in which enjoyment of the activity itself is the end goal, the rewards for a successful boarding action will be great—namely you get to keep and/or sell the ship and whatever's in it for potentially quite a large payoff. Your enemies won't respawn instantly, either; deaths hurt, though there's no real permadeath. Also, they'll lose their ship, though the stock hull will more than likely be replaced by insurance (aftermarket upgrades, advanced weaponry and such will be lost to the boarders). The point of it isn't to have a balanced and fair public match on an intricate first-person shooter map.

Will there be classes like medics or engineers?

That's a definite "no" unless they add something later on. CR has stated that there will be no character classes or skills in this game. Your equipment choice might constitute a class of sorts, though, but that's true of ships too.

...

Your skepticism is well thought-out, and I don't disagree fully (or at all, depending) with any of your points. Truth be told, I have no idea how they'll proceed with the shooter portion or how it'll turn out. I'm hoping for the best.

 

[Absalom]

Boarding might make the game hilariously grief-able. I'd totally buy it then

 

[Blaine]

Boarding might make the game hilariously grief-able. I'd totally buy it then

What do you think I plan to do once the game goes live? Mine asteroids?

Search the Star Citizen forums for the words "griefer" and "pirate." The sheer angst, the squealing for consensual PvP everywhere, the whingeing that lawless space shouldn't offer greater rewards than are available in the heart of the empire... it's beyond belief.

The mere thought of rump-ruffling these clowns by blowing up their cargo ships full of space widgets is sexually exciting.

 

[Grunker]

Still, the FPS boarding mechanics seem like a tremendously bad idea. As much as Codex likes to sneer at Call of Duty, it takes a good amount of money and time to produce fun, smooth and polished shooting mechanics. This is especially true for multiplayer, where you can't mask your core mechanic deficiencies with enemy or level design, and doubly true for team shooters, where a lot, and I do mean a lot, can go wrong and result in an unplayable mess. It just feels like such a waste, to have this great engine and beautiful ship designs, and then to elect to spend nontrivial amounts of time and money on forgettable popamole.

Don't worry bro, so far Chris has promised us a single-player on the level of Wing Commander and Privateer, a multi-player above the level of EVE and a competent first-person shooter

All on a budget barely big enough to make one of those games.


I'm looking forward to seeing what Roberts can do, but if feature creep was a concern before, it's becoming more and more of an elephant in the hangar... or, well, an elephant would be quite small in hangar, but you know what I mean.

 

[Blaine]

Don't worry bro, so far Chris has promised us a single-player on the level of Wing Commander and Privateer, a multi-player above the level of EVE and a competent first-person shooter

All on a budget barely big enough to make one of those games.

EVE Online was created with a budget of about $3m, I've played competent and impressive indie shooters developed on shoestring budgets (none perfect, but extremely serviceable), and bear in mind that almost all of the engine, art, sound, and coding assets needed for Squadron 42 will already be part and parcel of what's needed for Star Citizen in the first place. Motion capture, voice acting, storyboarding, cutscene and mission scripting, and a few comparatively minor art assets will be all that's needed for Squadron 42, and they already have their very own mocap and sound studios.

The first two Wing Commanders were made in, what, a year? And the first one had to be built from scratch.

As always though, you have a point that what's promised seems too good to be true. No need to fire another wall 'o' text cruise missile my way, we've been down that alley before.

 

[Grunker]

No need to fire another wall 'o' text cruise missile my way, we've been down that alley before.

Hence the pre-emptive troll emoticon.

 

[Absalom]

What do you think I plan to do once the game goes live? Mine asteroids?

Search the Star Citizen forums for the words "griefer" and "pirate." The sheer angst, the squealing for consensual PvP everywhere, the whingeing that lawless space shouldn't offer greater rewards than are available in the heart of the empire... it's beyond belief.

The mere thought of rump-ruffling these clowns by blowing up their cargo ships full of space widgets is sexually exciting.

So I could just chill on your ship and only log in to troll people in Suddenly, a FPS! mode?

 

[Blaine]

So I could just chill on your ship and only log in to troll people in Suddenly, a FPS! mode?

We don't know exactly how logging off on someone else's ship will work yet (it's one of those obscure little details that they may not have even worked out), but if feasible, sure, why not.

 

[Gurkog]

Hmm, if the boarding party is defeated can the attacker's ship be taken by the 'victim'? It would be hilariously awesome to fake cargo transport while carrying a freighter full of commandos as part of a mercenary contract to take out space pirates.

 

[Blaine]

Hmm, if the boarding party is defeated can the attacker's ship be taken by the 'victim'? It would be hilariously awesome to fake cargo transport while carrying a freighter full of commandos as part of a mercenary contract to take out space pirates.

I like the cut of your jib.

My guess is that it will be possible, but I imagine the aggressors will leave their pilot behind at the controls to start hammering the fuck out of the RETRACT DOCKING COLLAR button in case things go south... though if a shedload of defenders rush in and overwhelm them immediately, that won't do the aggressors any good.

Also note that scanning ships for their cargo, "transponder code" (player ID if nothing else), and so on will be possible. "Life sign" scans may also be a thing, and if so, smart boarders would scan a ship before popping its cherry.

Furthermore, it's still unclear which non-single-seater ships (if any) can carry more passengers than just their listed "max crew" complement. It's currently believed that "max crew" means only the number of people who can perform useful tasks at ship controls/turrets/etc., but no one really knows for sure. If max crew means max crew period, then boarders will know how many defenders can be aboard.

 

[dunno lah]

Hmm, if the boarding party is defeated can the attacker's ship be taken by the 'victim'? It would be hilariously awesome to fake cargo transport while carrying a freighter full of commandos as part of a mercenary contract to take out space pirates.

This should be Incline Incorporated's MO. The butthurt would be glorious, provided you guys are FPS/popamole pros.

 

[Multi-headed Cow]

Being ship crew/mole popper sounds more enticing in the MMO than being a captain or fighter pilot and a bit ahead of trader/transport pilot. I'm curious how they'll handle it to make it entertaining for players but manning a beep boop station and reversing the polarity of the shields while venting the plasma in the warp nacelles to create a hyper neutrino bubble, only to die valiantly when my console explodes sounds preeeeeeeeeeeeeetty cool.

My ideal situation would be fighter pilot in the Wing Commander campaign, trader/space adventurer in the singleplayer sandbox, and then ship crew in the MMO.

Oh oh oh, another cool thing would be if they have explosive packs. Pirates start sodomizing your space ship so you hop outside in a space suit, jet around to their ship, plant the explosives, then jet back into yours and blow 'em. Alternatively, have someone hiding outside your ship in a suit before the pirates attach if time's an issue.

 

[Hellraiser]

What do you think I plan to do once the game goes live? Mine asteroids?

Search the Star Citizen forums for the words "griefer" and "pirate." The sheer angst, the squealing for consensual PvP everywhere, the whingeing that lawless space shouldn't offer greater rewards than are available in the heart of the empire... it's beyond belief.

The mere thought of rump-ruffling these clowns by blowing up their cargo ships full of space widgets is sexually exciting.

Oh god, making life a bitch for space carebears. As if the prospect of space piracy where you can comandeer fucking ships wasn't already enough by itself.

 

[Blaine]

Oh god, making life a bitch for space carebears. As if the prospect of space piracy where you can comandeer fucking ships wasn't already enough by itself.

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/search?Search=griefer

all of this can be boiled down to one problem, truly realistic PvP only leads to griefers being griefers, because they don't care about the community, the game, or the people in it, they only care about getting their jollies off however they can, whether it's spending a month to join a big community and wreck their best ships, or simply crashing their LTI Aurora into other people over and over again just to hear them cry about it.

I completely agree with you. In EVERY pvp game i have played there is a large percentage of people like this and the way the op posted it makes me believe he is one of them. I for one enjoy every facet of a game, but when a game allows griefers to do their thing i definitely don't have fun because they are just ruining the game for everyone else. That being said i will always make sure i explore in a squad of friends or at the very least have lots of my friends close by to help in the case of a griefer attack.

But that isn't what is happening here. The reality is that this is a game where people will be encountering each other with different levels of ships (Cutlass vs Aurara? gimmie a break) - and this puts the griefer at an advantage 100% of the time. They are like real bandits in the woods. Do they attack the well armed patrol? No. Never. They will wait for the loner or the big haul Starlifter with a possibly large payload. Does history favor the bandit? Nope. And there is a reason for that. Because in the end they are nothing more than craven jerks that get their fun from ruining someone else's day. Probably because they were mistreated as children.
I guarantee that 100% of the people on these threads that shout about how much they want PvP actually want to grief. They know it in their dirty little hearts. And there is nothing else that they want. Why is that? Because they don't like the idea that PvE centric players might be able to avoid them. What does that mean? That means they want to fight the unwilling. This means that by their own admission, they are griefers.
Let's call a horse a horse. You want to grief. You will grief. It will make the game a little more fun for you and a lot less fun for all your victims. That's how it works.

In case you missed it.. Forcing people to fight who don't want to fight is the entire problem. You don't comprehend, or care, that your fun is ruining someone elses fun. And they have just as much right to have fun as you do.

Personally I don't have issues with PvP.. Otherwise I wouldn't have been playing WoT for the last two years. However I DO have problems with how most 'PvPers' in EvE behave. It's not for goodfights.. It's for easy kills, harassment, and just the sick pleasure of knowing they ruined someone elses day.

And left alone, if the 'hardcore PvPers' had their say here in this game, it would end up just as EvE v2 with cockpits.. The moment anyone left high sec, they'd be greeted by hordes of retaliators and idris's etc camping the other end of the jump.

I said a bunch of stuff that was TL;DR

Seems like Eve is the perfect game for you then. Feel free to go play it. All you talk about are corps, assets, mining asteroids. You just don't get that SC is not Eve 2.0. I mean really, what's the difference to you blowing up an AI ship vs blowing up a PvE focused player ship, except that the player will be upset about it? What you are essentially asking for is the exact same setup that's already in place in Eve.

Pirating has consequences when a pirate gets jumped in lawful space police don't help him infact players are paid to kill him and its more difgicult for pirates to buy things. That's the risk they tske any other questions?

That's not a risk, that's a consequence.

CR stop giving in to the massive amount of people majority of the customer base that want a casual riskfun, D-bag free game.

Fixed.

Is it less fun to fight against willing opponents?

That's exactly what it is. They don't want a real match, they want to essentially space rape players. It's not about competition, it's about control, because it's not nearly as fun when someone better comes along and craps on their day.

Carebear tears? HA! The best thing about this thread is seeing all the wanna be griefer's whine and moan about their butthurt over how this isn't just like Eve.

I think he is suggesting you might be some sort of tired jokes 4chan/reddit/9gag "griefer"

How is that any more tired than being an autofellating space paladin?

 

[Infinitron]

SPACE RAPE

 

[Blaine]

• they've disabled your thrusters
• you feel the docking collar engage
• they're cutting through the airlock
• you press yourself against a bulkhead, gripping your "free to backers before $15m" laser pistol tightly
• the hunk of cut airlock falls free and clatters onto the deck
• a figure appears in the doorway
• "Hi, I'm from Saints 3G, have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?"

Spoiler

Yes, this was written by me and pasted into the SC chatroll.